Collecting Cars auction results

Collecting Cars auction results

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GT4RS

2,688 posts

160 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
Bobo W said:
Ferruccio said:
Bobo W said:
CC is an auction platform - they are not an auction house or trader they merely facilitate the process between two private individuals - think eBay if it makes it easier - the rights therefore are essentially the same as a private sale - for the lawyers amongst us it would be interesting to see their take on online auctions but I imagine even the final price would be treated as an offer and the contract only made when the seller makes contact and gives payment details
I’d be rather surprised if a judge, being asked to opine on the point, wouldn’t hold that a trade vendor selling a vehicle, was a trade vendor selling a vehicle.
I'm not sure I follow? CC is just a means of getting buyer & seller together, they are no more a dealer than I am irrespective of who the backers of this venture are. So if I buy / sell to another private individual through CC it's a private sale, but if I buy from a trader through CC then it's a trade sale and all the rights that subsequently come with it. It all seems quite simple to me, but maybe I'm just a simpleton?
What you are saying appears correct, but to make it clear for all of us asking these questions it would be great if it could be confirmed.

Private to private = private sale
Trade to private = trade sale
Managed sale looks to be a privately owned vehicle being sold by motor trade on behalf of its owner = SOR, which would make it a trade sale as the motor trade companies aren’t offering their services for free.

I’m sure this post is being monitored by the companies mentioned, so a simple reply would help clear up the possible confusion being discussed.





Ferruccio

1,442 posts

82 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
Bobo W said:
Ferruccio said:
Bobo W said:
CC is an auction platform - they are not an auction house or trader they merely facilitate the process between two private individuals - think eBay if it makes it easier - the rights therefore are essentially the same as a private sale - for the lawyers amongst us it would be interesting to see their take on online auctions but I imagine even the final price would be treated as an offer and the contract only made when the seller makes contact and gives payment details
I’d be rather surprised if a judge, being asked to opine on the point, wouldn’t hold that a trade vendor selling a vehicle, was a trade vendor selling a vehicle.
I'm not sure I follow? CC is just a means of getting buyer & seller together, they are no more a dealer than I am irrespective of who the backers of this venture are. So if I buy / sell to another private individual through CC it's a private sale, but if I buy from a trader through CC then it's a trade sale and all the rights that subsequently come with it. It all seems quite simple to me, but maybe I'm just a simpleton?
All I’m saying is that a trade seller can’t turn themselves into a private seller by using CC, which some people seem to be implying?

21ATS

255 posts

35 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
Bobo W said:
I'm not sure I follow? CC is just a means of getting buyer & seller together, they are no more a dealer than I am irrespective of who the backers of this venture are. So if I buy / sell to another private individual through CC it's a private sale, but if I buy from a trader through CC then it's a trade sale and all the rights that subsequently come with it. It all seems quite simple to me, but maybe I'm just a simpleton?
You're getting slightly confused.

CC can not be considered a trade seller - they are nothing more than an advertising platform.

It's the "Managed" sale part that is in question here, we're using the 612 sale purely as an example as it fit the criteria we're discussing.

The 612 is being advertised on CC for sale as "Managed". The company managing the sale is DK Engineering, the well known and respected Ferrari Motor Trader/Dealer. DK are being paid by the 612 owner to manage the sale (for whatever reason).

CC are claiming this does not constitute a trade sale - it is private. Their stance is they (CC) are simply introducing two private parties and that DK engineering the motor trader is simply also facillitating the sale between two private parties, despite being paid to assist in the sale of the vehicle. Therefore it's a private sale.

I see DK on the hook as a motor trader making a trade sale (not CC - important differenece).

I believe Consumer Contract regulations (combined with the distance selling regulations within it) would confirm this.

IMO a managed sale is a trade sale and fits under the umbrella of Consumer Contract Regulations - the managing agent being liable should it be clear they are a motor trader.

Drclarke

1,080 posts

136 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
So you don’t get any comeback for the amount of money you pay the auction site if the car is misdescribed or the bloody engine falls out or ends up as stolen or with ownership issues??

Thanks but I’d rather deal with a dealer who I can yell at to fix any issues for the amount I am paying. This whole collecting cars thing sounds like gumtree with fees.



9Elfer

49 posts

57 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
Drclarke said:
So you don’t get any comeback for the amount of money you pay the auction site if the car is misdescribed or the bloody engine falls out or ends up as stolen or with ownership issues??

Thanks but I’d rather deal with a dealer who I can yell at to fix any issues for the amount I am paying. This whole collecting cars thing sounds like gumtree with fees.
The Porsche 2.7RS is going to be interesting too. It’s IC (who have been selling the car for over 1.5 years) who is selling on the platform. IC and CC are both owned by Ed Lovett. It’s been flagged as ‘managed’ but how on earth that it’s not a trade sale is beyond me. IC by putting it through an auction means they aren’t selling it anymore? Beyond me.

Ferruccio

1,442 posts

82 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
9Elfer said:
The Porsche 2.7RS is going to be interesting too. It’s IC (who have been selling the car for over 1.5 years) who is selling on the platform. IC and CC are both owned by Ed Lovett. It’s been flagged as ‘managed’ but how on earth that it’s not a trade sale is beyond me. IC by putting it through an auction means they aren’t selling it anymore? Beyond me.
That’s my point.
My view would be that most judges would just look through that and deem it to be a trade sale.
All litigation is uncertain, but I know which side of the argument I’d rather be on.

9Elfer

49 posts

57 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
Ferruccio said:
That’s my point.
My view would be that most judges would just look through that and deem it to be a trade sale.
All litigation is uncertain, but I know which side of the argument I’d rather be on.
To me it demonstrates that the business is trying to wiggle out of its obligations as a dealer/trade.

As 21ATS put it - they want to get paid like a dealer sale but want to carry none of the protection that the law protects the consumer with. The action of creating a ‘manage’ category is a very ugly decision.

21ATS

255 posts

35 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
9Elfer said:
To me it demonstrates that the business is trying to wiggle out of its obligations as a dealer/trade.

As 21ATS put it - they want to get paid like a dealer sale but want to carry none of the protection that the law protects the consumer with. The action of creating a ‘manage’ category is a very ugly decision.
This is the crux of the matter. The creation of this third category is designed to be misleading. Any sale on this platform can only be one of two status, either trade or private and that's it.

Describing it in any other manner is intentionally misleading.

I have a feeling IC operates in the same manner as CC, acting as a broker introducing two private parties. Happy to proved otherwise though.

kevinon

241 posts

23 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
If it is just an ebay for cars, (facilitating buyer and seller), how come they don't have a version of the ebay protections for the buyer? If your cheap ebay purchase isn't as described, ebay have remedies.
https://pages.ebay.co.uk/ebay-money-back-guarantee...

But if you buy a car off CC and pay 6% fee, you are worse off?

I just don't get it.




HIS LM

1,107 posts

222 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
I have used CC to sell 2 vehicles and I was very happy the whole process from start to end.

If you don't like it don't use it nobody is forcing your hand just stop whingeing !!

21ATS

255 posts

35 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
HIS LM said:
I have used CC to sell 2 vehicles and I was very happy the whole process from start to end.

If you don't like it don't use it nobody is forcing your hand just stop whingeing !!
I have no doubt you're absolutely delighted as a seller, you appear to get close to a dealer forecourt price for your car, no fees to pay, no commission and not a single person appears to have any liability for the sale if something goes wrong.

From a buyers perespective it's absoultely pot luck and you're having to pay for the priveledge. It's a perfect selling platform. It's a potential nightmare buying platform.

jtremlett

989 posts

185 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
HIS LM said:
I have used CC to sell 2 vehicles and I was very happy the whole process from start to end.

If you don't like it don't use it nobody is forcing your hand just stop whingeing !!
Sorry, but that doesn't seem to be very helpful. All these things are great when everything goes smoothly. The issue in question is what happens when things don't go smoothly and especially so, as pointed out, when it is a "managed" sale. It is entirely reasonable to raise these issues and then everyone is informed and can indeed decide whether to use it or not based on proper information rather than using it, something going wrong and only ten finding out the pitfalls.

phib

4,131 posts

222 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
I really struggle to understand why people have an issue with the site.

Sold one car through the site, had another 2 that didn’t sell.

If you want to buy through the site, it’s the same as a private sale, go and have a look at the cars first, meet the vendor etc exactly as you would on every private sale ?

I’ve tried to buy one via the site, viewed the car met the owner etc etc.

Just got outbid

Phib

21ATS

255 posts

35 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
phib said:
I really struggle to understand why people have an issue with the site.

Sold one car through the site, had another 2 that didn’t sell.

If you want to buy through the site, it’s the same as a private sale, go and have a look at the cars first, meet the vendor etc exactly as you would on every private sale ?

I’ve tried to buy one via the site, viewed the car met the owner etc etc.

Just got outbid

Phib
It was very straightforward whilst all sales were described as either private or trade.

The specific issue is the introduction of the managed category.

It simply appears to be motor traders circumventing their legal obligations whilst being paid to sell cars.


Ferruccio

1,442 posts

82 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
phib said:
If you want to buy through the site, it’s the same as a private sale
No.
If the vendor’s trade is selling cars, I very much suspect that it’s a trade sale.

phib

4,131 posts

222 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
It doesnt matter who is selling it, you have to regard it and take the risk as if it was a private sale was more my point.

Ultimately if your unhappy buying on cc feeling like your buying from a trade but getting no warranty then the answer is buy retail from a trader.

Many of the cars on cc go for trade money.

The issue is people expect a bargain trade price with all the warranty / costs to a trader.

9Elfer

49 posts

57 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
phib said:
It doesnt matter who is selling it, you have to regard it and take the risk as if it was a private sale was more my point.

Ultimately if your unhappy buying on cc feeling like your buying from a trade but getting no warranty then the answer is buy retail from a trader.

Many of the cars on cc go for trade money.

The issue is people expect a bargain trade price with all the warranty / costs to a trader.
I think the point is misled.

Listed as private seller: all good
Listed as trade seller: all good

This is all well respected. I would happily bid knowing this and respect the capacity which the car is being sold.

Listed as managed seller when in fact is a trade seller, being paid to market and upsell the car, while not admitting such (and wiggling out of providing legal guidelines on consumer protection) is wrong.



phib

4,131 posts

222 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
Fair enough, I can’t really see the point but understand some have concerns.

For me simply it’s just about the price I’m paying versus what services I’m getting if that makes sense.

I just always assumed any car from CC has no warranty or come back and is effectively a private sale and would only pay what I was prepared to pay if I was buying it privately ..... maybe that’s why I haven’t won any !!

Phib

21ATS

255 posts

35 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
phib said:
Fair enough, I can’t really see the point but understand some have concerns.

For me simply it’s just about the price I’m paying versus what services I’m getting if that makes sense.

I just always assumed any car from CC has no warranty or come back and is effectively a private sale and would only pay what I was prepared to pay if I was buying it privately ..... maybe that’s why I haven’t won any !!

Phib
This is the principal I've employed on the cars on which I've bid. Like you I've been outbid, sometimes to a degree that leaves me scratching my head when you find a similar car advertised on a dealer forecourt for the same or less money after fees have been added.

It's no surprise sellers are happy, they are getting a better price for their cars and there's zero comback if it turns out to be a lemon.

I think some people are bidding on the assumption that they are buying from a dealer (either that CC is a dealer or the person selling the car is) with all the guarantees that entails and as such are bidding higher.

Having a category of Managed sales does nothing to make this any clearer, in fact I consider it misleading.



500 Miles

1,663 posts

189 months

Saturday 24th October 2020
quotequote all
21ATS said:
HIS LM said:
I have used CC to sell 2 vehicles and I was very happy the whole process from start to end.

If you don't like it don't use it nobody is forcing your hand just stop whingeing !!
I have no doubt you're absolutely delighted as a seller, you appear to get close to a dealer forecourt price for your car, no fees to pay, no commission and not a single person appears to have any liability for the sale if something goes wrong.

From a buyers perespective it's absoultely pot luck and you're having to pay for the priveledge. It's a perfect selling platform. It's a potential nightmare buying platform.
I’ve bought two cars from the site, a 355 GTS and a 993 Turbo - both cracking cars and a very easy process.
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