Collecting Cars auction results
Discussion
OSMojo said:
Cheib said:
The system works absolutely fine on Bring A Trailer and is left there in posterity for all cars whether they sell or not. I don’t know if there’s any moderation but I’ve looked at a few cars about which there has been healthy debate. I imagine if someone raises allegations of say historical damage without proof I imagine it gets deleted.
The comments on CC itself are reasonable (from the ones I have seen) probably because people commenting are serious about the car in question.My post is specifically about this CC thread on PH as it gives anyone the chance to comment and ruin the reputation of assets without any repercussions, and that many of these commenters on PH have no desire or inclination to bid for nor probably the funds.
fridaypassion said:
To the chap complaining about trade sellers on CC sorry what's the problem here? I know some people just have a pathological hatred of the trade but if a trade seller puts a car to auction 2 things happen. Firstly and in my opinion quite rightly your consumer rights fall away. Secondly you are buying a car below its normal retail price (in most cases). You can't have it all. I sold a personal car on CC and would consider putting business stock on there but it wouldn't be an attempt to circumvent anything it would be to either clear overage stock or in some cases the platform might lend itself to a particular type of car. Evidently if you have an RS 911 you'd be a fool to retail it when you can get a very good result on CC with no hassle.
Also with regards to this thread every outlet for every car sale in the country is subject to scrutiny on here. CC are a young company and unless they have a howler of a sale that attracts some very negative publicity then having exposure on here can only be a good thing for them.
If this is aimed at me and the misrepresentation of "managed" you are exactly the target audience for my complaint. You clearly have no grasp of the status or fundamental legal standing of CC which is why I believe they are misrepresenting certain sales.Also with regards to this thread every outlet for every car sale in the country is subject to scrutiny on here. CC are a young company and unless they have a howler of a sale that attracts some very negative publicity then having exposure on here can only be a good thing for them.
Understand the following.
CC is not an "auction site" in any way shape or form similar to Bonhams, Silverstone or RM Auctions. They are an advertising platform no different to Autotrader or eBay for that matter, introducing two buyers either trader or private. The way you arrive at the final price for the vehicle is by way of a bidding format. You then pay CC 6% capped at £6000 for priveledge of allowing you to "bid" and win the car. Their involvement and legal responsibilites end there unless they have been involved materially in a vehicle being misdescribed.
When it started out there were two categories, Private or trade. All straightforward, a private sale is a private sale, no comebacks whatsoever, you could be buying a stolen vehcile and it's your problem, CC have no liability.
Trade on the other hand are selling through CC as though it's a forecourt sale, with all the legal ramifications that adds, then on top they have to also comply with distance selling regulations under consumer contract law, one thing they aren't doing is "disposing of a vehicle through auction at trade" as highlighted above CC is not a trade auction site.
Then a third murky category was introduce, "Managed Sale" this is where a private individual has employed a motor trader to sell their vehicle on CC. The motor trader markets the car, fields questions, may or may not make the vehicle available for viewings and by default lends a credibility to the sale that it may not have if it were a private sale (which it actually is). Now this could make sense if say the owner is abroad and actually handling the transaction is logitistically impossible. But it's being used by people who simply want to avoid much of what's being brought up in the last few posts, basically having to deal with the great unwashed.
My complaint is this. It is misrepresentation. A Motor Trader is selling a car and being paid to do so. They simply cannot choose to opt out of the legal obligations of being a motor trader claiming they are simply introducing two private parties for a transaction and are then exhonerated from any come back on the deal.
It would be an in interesting conversation to raise with Martin Lewis, it's just the sort of thing he likes to get get his teeth into, but he's a rather busy chap at the moment with everything going on.
I own an E Commerce business (not connected with a motor trade) and as a director it is my responsibility to clearly understand what the legal responsibilites are of trading in this manner. I'm looking at how CC operates and I beleive they are currently in a grey area when it comes to Consumer credit law and distance selling regs within that - but I believe the Managed Sale component goes beyond that. The thing is it will take either a court case or an intervention from a martin Lewis type to define.
So my interest is in the legalities.
On a seperate point, I also see very little selling at "Trade Price" bar a few early examples of cars when we were in the initial lockdown meltdown and in a period of unknown.
Edited by 21ATS on Sunday 29th November 10:47
Edited by 21ATS on Sunday 29th November 11:49
In what way is CC not an auction? It looks a awful lot like an auction?
What is the difference for me putting something out via Silverstone vs CC? If there's a legal difference educate me I'm genuinely interested. Every days a school day etc but to me why would I put a car through auction leaving myself exposed to the possibility of taking less for it and then still have all the weight of the CRA hanging over me?
As a punter I think its plain to see on some cars you would be completely nuts to buy one from auction with no comeback when you can have a dealer on the hook for 3/6/12 months.
The problem is people always want a bargain but can't handle it when something then goes wrong.
What is the difference for me putting something out via Silverstone vs CC? If there's a legal difference educate me I'm genuinely interested. Every days a school day etc but to me why would I put a car through auction leaving myself exposed to the possibility of taking less for it and then still have all the weight of the CRA hanging over me?
As a punter I think its plain to see on some cars you would be completely nuts to buy one from auction with no comeback when you can have a dealer on the hook for 3/6/12 months.
The problem is people always want a bargain but can't handle it when something then goes wrong.
OSMojo said:
The main problem for anyone listing their car on CC IMO is this very thread, people who have no intention of bidding and / or cannot afford to, slagging off and impacting seller's assets, questioning everything and anything, groundless scare mongering.
Then when you look at their 'garages' they either don't show one, or they have a 300zx 'lowered' with bake bean can exhausts and half of Halfords glued on it, and there they are slagging of someones Enzo "Are wouldn't buy it, naaa, too risky, I think it might have a broken chassis, I think it might be clocked, a mate of my mates dads cousin's mum told me it's not originally red, it was factory pink"
On CC you can only post questions if you are bidding, keeps out people who have no interest in the car, or who can't afford it. So they come on here and puke.
I really don't agree with this. I'm not looking to buy but if I were then I would want to know of any potential issues that might be known about and then do appropriate due diligence - and I'd be perfectly capable of filtering out the "I don't like yellow Esprit" comments. Nor do I see any great difference with similar discussions about cars listed on Pistonheads or elsewhere.Then when you look at their 'garages' they either don't show one, or they have a 300zx 'lowered' with bake bean can exhausts and half of Halfords glued on it, and there they are slagging of someones Enzo "Are wouldn't buy it, naaa, too risky, I think it might have a broken chassis, I think it might be clocked, a mate of my mates dads cousin's mum told me it's not originally red, it was factory pink"
On CC you can only post questions if you are bidding, keeps out people who have no interest in the car, or who can't afford it. So they come on here and puke.
As it happens, the issues that came to light with the Ferrari 360 recently were from when I had been specifically asked about that car three years ago when it was for sale through an entirely different channel.
Obviously, if you're wanting to sell and what you are selling has issues you would rather weren't known then I can see that you might have a different view but I don't see any evidence of any untruths impacting upon the sale or selling price of a car. Also, as has been mentioned, the US Bring A Trailer site allows anyone to comment and those comments remain for posterity. It is then frequently soon clear, when an issue is raised, if a seller is being evasive or dishonest or equally if it is debunked. Presumably, from the number of listings on that site, it must work for buyers and sellers.
fridaypassion said:
In what way is CC not an auction? It looks a awful lot like an auction?
What is the difference for me putting something out via Silverstone vs CC? If there's a legal difference educate me I'm genuinely interested. Every days a school day etc but to me why would I put a car through auction leaving myself exposed to the possibility of taking less for it and then still have all the weight of the CRA hanging over me?
As a punter I think its plain to see on some cars you would be completely nuts to buy one from auction with no comeback when you can have a dealer on the hook for 3/6/12 months.
The problem is people always want a bargain but can't handle it when something then goes wrong.
So now it's starting to sink in?What is the difference for me putting something out via Silverstone vs CC? If there's a legal difference educate me I'm genuinely interested. Every days a school day etc but to me why would I put a car through auction leaving myself exposed to the possibility of taking less for it and then still have all the weight of the CRA hanging over me?
As a punter I think its plain to see on some cars you would be completely nuts to buy one from auction with no comeback when you can have a dealer on the hook for 3/6/12 months.
The problem is people always want a bargain but can't handle it when something then goes wrong.
At no point is a car consigned to CC (like it is to a bricks and mortar - now on line traditional auction). If you buy at Silverstone Auctions you are buying the car from Silverstone Auctions with the legal ramifications that entails. I.e. not as described, stolen/recovered etc.
CC simply advertise a car for sale, that's it. They are different to Autotrader and eBay fixed priced sales in that they don't advertise a fixed price, they allow potential buyers to make increasing offers until a final price is met or not.
If you buy a car via CC you are buying from the owner or a trader, the legal comeback on that vehicle is then determined by the vendors status.
A few months ago CC then created an entirely new category which didn't exist before, "Managed Sales" this is where a trader sells a car in a way that allows them to circumvent their legal responsibilites as a motor trader.
You then pay 6% to CC for advertising the car.
As a business model it's outstanding. From a sellers perespective it's outstanding. From a buyers perspective it's quite possibly the worst way to buy a car possible unless you completely understand who is and isn't responisble legally.
You clearly didn't graps this and I believe a lot of others don't either. I think a lot of people looking and bidding on this site genuinely believe they are buying a car from CC and that CC are a Motor Trader/Auction House. When the reality is all they are is an advertising platform.
OSMojo said:
Cheib said:
The system works absolutely fine on Bring A Trailer and is left there in posterity for all cars whether they sell or not. I don’t know if there’s any moderation but I’ve looked at a few cars about which there has been healthy debate. I imagine if someone raises allegations of say historical damage without proof I imagine it gets deleted.
The comments on CC itself are reasonable (from the ones I have seen) probably because people commenting are serious about the car in question.My post is specifically about this CC thread on PH as it gives anyone the chance to comment and ruin the reputation of assets without any repercussions, and that many of these commenters on PH have no desire or inclination to bid for nor probably the funds.
If people make statements about cars which aren't supported by any evidence then I've no doubt those comments will be moderated, as they should be. Malicious mud slinging isn't fair game. What is fair game is asking questions or making a community aware of something that may need looking at. Issues were highlighted with a car here recently, which were validated and it was found there was some undeclared history. The impact of that is a significant five figure number.
In the same way posters don't have free reign to make unsubstantiated claims, then sellers can't be protected when issues aren't declared. If anything, buyers should have more protection. It's commonplace for people to ask questions about specific cars on threads across these forums as part of due diligence when looking at things. Virtual tyre kicking is a PH mainstay. There are numerous threads dedicated to it. Cars are frequently picked apart on these forums, though dealers are protected (you need to go elsewhere to find truths on that front, something I feel PH has been very wrong about historically, but that's a different thread).
Posters often point things out that potential buyers had not seen or were not aware of. And buyers can pick what is a relevant piece of information and what isn't. I certainly wouldn't feel happy buying something which some people knew had issues and finding that out at a later date having parted with the cash with no means to redress the situation (per 21ATS's repeated postings). I'm also uncomfortable watching someone potentially stumble into a situation unawares.
fridaypassion said:
In what way is CC not an auction? It looks a awful lot like an auction?
What is the difference for me putting something out via Silverstone vs CC? If there's a legal difference educate me I'm genuinely interested. Every days a school day etc but to me why would I put a car through auction leaving myself exposed to the possibility of taking less for it and then still have all the weight of the CRA hanging over me?
As a punter I think its plain to see on some cars you would be completely nuts to buy one from auction with no comeback when you can have a dealer on the hook for 3/6/12 months.
The problem is people always want a bargain but can't handle it when something then goes wrong.
CC are not acting as agents for the seller in the same way that Bonhams or Silverstone are.What is the difference for me putting something out via Silverstone vs CC? If there's a legal difference educate me I'm genuinely interested. Every days a school day etc but to me why would I put a car through auction leaving myself exposed to the possibility of taking less for it and then still have all the weight of the CRA hanging over me?
As a punter I think its plain to see on some cars you would be completely nuts to buy one from auction with no comeback when you can have a dealer on the hook for 3/6/12 months.
The problem is people always want a bargain but can't handle it when something then goes wrong.
CC is the equivalent of putting an advert on PH asking for offers. PH isn't held responsible if something goes wrong with that deal, and neither would CC be.
OSMojo said:
Well possibly for the owners of CC you might be right, I honestly do not know. But for the owners of the cars in question I can't imagine it's anything but a nightmare, just a few jealous mugs finally able to feel better about themselves by slagging off a car they can never have.
Do you have some examples of this? And is a problem which you perceive to be unique to cars advertised on CC?will_ said:
CC are not acting as agents for the seller in the same way that Bonhams or Silverstone are.
CC is the equivalent of putting an advert on PH asking for offers. PH isn't held responsible if something goes wrong with that deal, and neither would CC be.
That said there is a striking similarity between the descriptive text that accompanies every advert, so in some respects it’s far more akin to acting as an agent than just providing an advertising platform. CC is the equivalent of putting an advert on PH asking for offers. PH isn't held responsible if something goes wrong with that deal, and neither would CC be.
bennno said:
will_ said:
CC are not acting as agents for the seller in the same way that Bonhams or Silverstone are.
CC is the equivalent of putting an advert on PH asking for offers. PH isn't held responsible if something goes wrong with that deal, and neither would CC be.
That said there is a striking similarity between the descriptive text that accompanies every advert, so in some respects it’s far more akin to acting as an agent than just providing an advertising platform. CC is the equivalent of putting an advert on PH asking for offers. PH isn't held responsible if something goes wrong with that deal, and neither would CC be.
It's why "traditional" auction houses don't need to explain whether a consignor is "private" or "trade"; there's no such distinction, because it is a different sales format.
21ATS said:
So now it's starting to sink in?
At no point is a car consigned to CC (like it is to a bricks and mortar - now on line traditional auction). If you buy at Silverstone Auctions you are buying the car from Silverstone Auctions with the legal ramifications that entails. I.e. not as described, stolen/recovered etc.
CC simply advertise a car for sale, that's it. They are different to Autotrader and eBay fixed priced sales in that they don't advertise a fixed price, they allow potential buyers to make increasing offers until a final price is met or not.
If you buy a car via CC you are buying from the owner or a trader, the legal comeback on that vehicle is then determined by the vendors status.
A few months ago CC then created an entirely new category which didn't exist before, "Managed Sales" this is where a trader sells a car in a way that allows them to circumvent their legal responsibilites as a motor trader.
You then pay 6% to CC for advertising the car.
As a business model it's outstanding. From a sellers perespective it's outstanding. From a buyers perspective it's quite possibly the worst way to buy a car possible unless you completely understand who is and isn't responisble legally.
You clearly didn't graps this and I believe a lot of others don't either. I think a lot of people looking and bidding on this site genuinely believe they are buying a car from CC and that CC are a Motor Trader/Auction House. When the reality is all they are is an advertising platform.
That's an interesting post which very nearly makes up for your condescending tone (for which there is no need).At no point is a car consigned to CC (like it is to a bricks and mortar - now on line traditional auction). If you buy at Silverstone Auctions you are buying the car from Silverstone Auctions with the legal ramifications that entails. I.e. not as described, stolen/recovered etc.
CC simply advertise a car for sale, that's it. They are different to Autotrader and eBay fixed priced sales in that they don't advertise a fixed price, they allow potential buyers to make increasing offers until a final price is met or not.
If you buy a car via CC you are buying from the owner or a trader, the legal comeback on that vehicle is then determined by the vendors status.
A few months ago CC then created an entirely new category which didn't exist before, "Managed Sales" this is where a trader sells a car in a way that allows them to circumvent their legal responsibilites as a motor trader.
You then pay 6% to CC for advertising the car.
As a business model it's outstanding. From a sellers perespective it's outstanding. From a buyers perspective it's quite possibly the worst way to buy a car possible unless you completely understand who is and isn't responisble legally.
You clearly didn't graps this and I believe a lot of others don't either. I think a lot of people looking and bidding on this site genuinely believe they are buying a car from CC and that CC are a Motor Trader/Auction House. When the reality is all they are is an advertising platform.
It would be interesting to see tested as I would 100% not expect any come back of I had used CC to dispose of overage business stock. I guess you could draw up a tailored order. There will be a big lemon sold on there at some point its inevitable so I guess we will see in the end.
It doesn't change the fact that 99% of bidders would assume in my view correctly that they are buying with no warranty and as I previously commented on this thread I would not take the fact that Chris Harris is "involved" with the business as any degree of comfort that the car is right or not. They check HPI and after that its up to you just as Silverstone or whoever else would operate.
CC do encourage you to view the car prior to purchase and indeed the guy that bought the car I sold did just this.
At some stage people just need to take responsibility for their own actions and I don't think CC are misleading anyone. I think this on each listing:
"bidders must satisfy themselves as to the accuracy of the description, and conduct any research they feel is necessary before committing to a bid" is fair enough. They are telling you to check it out which you should do. CC is absolutely not a convenient outlet for dealers to swerve responsibility for the reasons I've stated in my earlier post. As a dealer you want it on your own platform with maximum margin on it not to risk something going for a loss.
I do however acknowledge that their system is wide open to someone sticking a right old bag of spanners on there and rinsing some poor unfortunate. I would say though that although I have first hand experience at the dodgy dealings of supposedly respected traders the very worst behaviour I've seen in my 10 years of specialist car trading has always come from private individuals.
fridaypassion said:
21ATS said:
So now it's starting to sink in?
At no point is a car consigned to CC (like it is to a bricks and mortar - now on line traditional auction). If you buy at Silverstone Auctions you are buying the car from Silverstone Auctions with the legal ramifications that entails. I.e. not as described, stolen/recovered etc.
CC simply advertise a car for sale, that's it. They are different to Autotrader and eBay fixed priced sales in that they don't advertise a fixed price, they allow potential buyers to make increasing offers until a final price is met or not.
If you buy a car via CC you are buying from the owner or a trader, the legal comeback on that vehicle is then determined by the vendors status.
A few months ago CC then created an entirely new category which didn't exist before, "Managed Sales" this is where a trader sells a car in a way that allows them to circumvent their legal responsibilites as a motor trader.
You then pay 6% to CC for advertising the car.
As a business model it's outstanding. From a sellers perespective it's outstanding. From a buyers perspective it's quite possibly the worst way to buy a car possible unless you completely understand who is and isn't responisble legally.
You clearly didn't graps this and I believe a lot of others don't either. I think a lot of people looking and bidding on this site genuinely believe they are buying a car from CC and that CC are a Motor Trader/Auction House. When the reality is all they are is an advertising platform.
That's an interesting post which very nearly makes up for your condescending tone (for which there is no need).At no point is a car consigned to CC (like it is to a bricks and mortar - now on line traditional auction). If you buy at Silverstone Auctions you are buying the car from Silverstone Auctions with the legal ramifications that entails. I.e. not as described, stolen/recovered etc.
CC simply advertise a car for sale, that's it. They are different to Autotrader and eBay fixed priced sales in that they don't advertise a fixed price, they allow potential buyers to make increasing offers until a final price is met or not.
If you buy a car via CC you are buying from the owner or a trader, the legal comeback on that vehicle is then determined by the vendors status.
A few months ago CC then created an entirely new category which didn't exist before, "Managed Sales" this is where a trader sells a car in a way that allows them to circumvent their legal responsibilites as a motor trader.
You then pay 6% to CC for advertising the car.
As a business model it's outstanding. From a sellers perespective it's outstanding. From a buyers perspective it's quite possibly the worst way to buy a car possible unless you completely understand who is and isn't responisble legally.
You clearly didn't graps this and I believe a lot of others don't either. I think a lot of people looking and bidding on this site genuinely believe they are buying a car from CC and that CC are a Motor Trader/Auction House. When the reality is all they are is an advertising platform.
It would be interesting to see tested as I would 100% not expect any come back of I had used CC to dispose of overage business stock. I guess you could draw up a tailored order. There will be a big lemon sold on there at some point its inevitable so I guess we will see in the end.
One that exempts you from the sales of goods act, and the buyers statutory rights?
If you're a dealer, and you choose to sell to a member of the public, I didn't think there was any way you could get out of the legal implications of retailing to the public.
I'm happy to be educated.
bennno said:
That said there is a striking similarity between the descriptive text that accompanies every advert, so in some respects it’s far more akin to acting as an agent than just providing an advertising platform.
I think they prefer the term "Broker" in so much as they are simply brokering a deal and in no other way involved.It's a sitatuation I came across by accident and until that point in time I didn't even know it was a thing.
I was interested in a car that was over my cash budget so I wanted to finance the difference. I spoke with the guy that has organised vehicle finance for me in the past (quite well known now due to social media) and he explained that dealing with these particular "brokers" was an absolute nightmare when it came to arranging finance.
You're effectively trying to finance a private transaction, there is zero comeback, zero liability, the private seller has to provide proof of ownership down to what he paid, how he paid for it and where the money came from (to satisfy money laundering laws). That's just the start. It was a real eye opener how many "dealers" are trading in this manner.
Once the transaction has completed the private seller then pays the broker a pre agreed fee or percentage of the transaction for the introduction.
CC has simply taken this business model on line with bid format but they've gone one better. They even remove the sellers fee completely and get the buyer to pay that also.
So the reality is selling on CC is probably more secure than using a traditional auction house, you completely remove the possibility of the auction house going bust and losing your car (see Coys recent history) it costs you nothing to list/sell the car and you retain physical ownership until the cash is in your bank account. No wonder it's popular.
So why have I got a problem with it? Well fundamentally the idea is genius and has been blessed with a global pandemic meaning online trading is the way to go. I get that, I got rid of my B&M business a decade ago and took everything on line. It's the future.
The problem I have is the recent growth in this "broker" type of trading in which a motor trader is clearly engaging in the motor trade and circumventing the legal responisbilites of the same. The CC added a category to openly enable it. That's it in a nutshell.
I don't particualrly mind Yellow Lotus's or should that be Lotii?
Someone, somewhere with a lot of money will get their fingers burnt in a big way on CC or another platform/broker, there will likely be some legalities involved that will shine a light on the whole industry at which point it will likely be addressed. Until that happens I guess it will all continue.
As an example of why CC has grown I was looking at a car that interested me recently at Silverstone.
This is the maths comparison between CC and a traditional auction model. (It was a conversation I was having on FChat about a 550 Maranello - I've just cut and pasted)
There's a huge spread created with premiums on both ends that means someone really needs to overbid the car for the seller to get any reasonable return.
Silverstone charges are as follows:-
£250+vat catalogue fee
5%+vat sellers fee
12.5%+vat buyers fee (rising to 13.5% if you bid on line).
Vs Collecting cars
6% buyers fee.
Lets say the seller is expecting £60,000 back for their car - considering retail asking prices are currently circa £90,000 on the most part. Likely having seen the numbers achieved on line recently.
On CC bidding needs to hit £63,600 for the seller to hit his number.
At Silverstone he'd need a bid of £73,485 (£74,251.80 on line) to realise the same £60,000
So a potential buyer needs to be bidding £10,000 more for the seller to hit his number assuming that number is around the £60K mark.
This is no longer about "what's the car worth". The seller has chosen an outlet that's simply going to cost £10,000+ more in fees.
This is the maths comparison between CC and a traditional auction model. (It was a conversation I was having on FChat about a 550 Maranello - I've just cut and pasted)
There's a huge spread created with premiums on both ends that means someone really needs to overbid the car for the seller to get any reasonable return.
Silverstone charges are as follows:-
£250+vat catalogue fee
5%+vat sellers fee
12.5%+vat buyers fee (rising to 13.5% if you bid on line).
Vs Collecting cars
6% buyers fee.
Lets say the seller is expecting £60,000 back for their car - considering retail asking prices are currently circa £90,000 on the most part. Likely having seen the numbers achieved on line recently.
On CC bidding needs to hit £63,600 for the seller to hit his number.
At Silverstone he'd need a bid of £73,485 (£74,251.80 on line) to realise the same £60,000
So a potential buyer needs to be bidding £10,000 more for the seller to hit his number assuming that number is around the £60K mark.
This is no longer about "what's the car worth". The seller has chosen an outlet that's simply going to cost £10,000+ more in fees.
Edited by 21ATS on Sunday 29th November 17:49
Well you seem to have your Y fronts in a twist over trade using CC but hardly any of the listings are trade and as I have repeatedly said CC is not a super attractive option for traders.
As for yellow Lotus you'll be aware of the one that was on the other platform that went for crazy money when the chassis was scrap? The second time of listing they actually listed it detailing the scrap chassis and someone still bought it. Crazy.
I really don't feel that there's a conspiracy going on here with CC in any way shape or form.
As for yellow Lotus you'll be aware of the one that was on the other platform that went for crazy money when the chassis was scrap? The second time of listing they actually listed it detailing the scrap chassis and someone still bought it. Crazy.
I really don't feel that there's a conspiracy going on here with CC in any way shape or form.
21ATS said:
As an example of why CC has grown I was looking at a car that interested me recently at Silverstone.
This is the maths comparison between CC and a traditional auction model. (It was a conversation I was having on FChat about a 550 Maranello - I've just cut and pasted)
There's a huge spread created with premiums on both ends that means someone really needs to overbid the car for the seller to get any reasonable return.
Silverstone charges are as follows:-
£250+vat catalogue fee
5%+vat sellers fee
12.5%+vat buyers fee (rising to 13.5% if you bid on line).
Vs Collecting cars
6% buyers fee.
Lets say the seller is expecting £60,000 back for their car - considering retail asking prices are currently circa £90,000 on the most part. Likely having seen the numbers achieved on line recently.
On CC bidding needs to hit £63,600 for the seller to hit his number.
At Silverstone he'd need a bid of £73,485 (£74,251.80 on line) to realise the same £60,000
So a potential buyer needs to be bidding £10,000 more for the seller to hit his number assuming that number is around the £60K mark.
This is no longer about "what's the car worth". The seller has chosen an outlet that's simply going to cost £10,000+ more in fees.
63,600 figure wrong, vendor only needs the Bids to hit 60k to hit his number as buyer pays the fee.This is the maths comparison between CC and a traditional auction model. (It was a conversation I was having on FChat about a 550 Maranello - I've just cut and pasted)
There's a huge spread created with premiums on both ends that means someone really needs to overbid the car for the seller to get any reasonable return.
Silverstone charges are as follows:-
£250+vat catalogue fee
5%+vat sellers fee
12.5%+vat buyers fee (rising to 13.5% if you bid on line).
Vs Collecting cars
6% buyers fee.
Lets say the seller is expecting £60,000 back for their car - considering retail asking prices are currently circa £90,000 on the most part. Likely having seen the numbers achieved on line recently.
On CC bidding needs to hit £63,600 for the seller to hit his number.
At Silverstone he'd need a bid of £73,485 (£74,251.80 on line) to realise the same £60,000
So a potential buyer needs to be bidding £10,000 more for the seller to hit his number assuming that number is around the £60K mark.
This is no longer about "what's the car worth". The seller has chosen an outlet that's simply going to cost £10,000+ more in fees.
Edited by 21ATS on Sunday 29th November 17:49
fridaypassion said:
Well you seem to have your Y fronts in a twist over trade using CC but hardly any of the listings are trade and as I have repeatedly said CC is not a super attractive option for traders.
As for yellow Lotus you'll be aware of the one that was on the other platform that went for crazy money when the chassis was scrap? The second time of listing they actually listed it detailing the scrap chassis and someone still bought it. Crazy.
I really don't feel that there's a conspiracy going on here with CC in any way shape or form.
Sigh....As for yellow Lotus you'll be aware of the one that was on the other platform that went for crazy money when the chassis was scrap? The second time of listing they actually listed it detailing the scrap chassis and someone still bought it. Crazy.
I really don't feel that there's a conspiracy going on here with CC in any way shape or form.
There's no conspiracy.
The fact there are hardly any trade listings is actually part of the point I'm making.
Trevor555 said:
If you're a dealer, and you choose to sell to a member of the public, I didn't think there was any way you could get out of the legal implications of retailing to the public.
I suspect that that’s correct and that if the matter came to be litigated a judge would come to that conclusion pretty quickly. Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff