Ferrari 512BB sold on Collecting Cars

[SFTWend]

rat rod said:

Trying to reduce my traffic jam in my garage i've advertised 3 of my cars ,,shame none of them have sold as i would have had to press that button ,I know the purest will think other wise and maybe not such a good investment as a standard example and selling it on could be a problem but i'm sure someones very happy with their buy,(anyone on here)

Edited by rat rod on Tuesday 12th May 22:34

Get CC to sell them for you. Probably make more than what you are currently asking!

[rat rod]

SFTWend said:

Get CC to sell them for you. Probably make more than what you are currently asking!

You must have read my mind ,i was only thinking that what with all the comments cc is getting on the p.h forums recently, never had much luck with auctions both buying and selling but i purpose there's always the first time.

[rat rod]

Maph7 said:

Cheib said:

I suspect prices on BB’s pre Covid were a bit like Daytona’s....lots of cars around in the £500k to £700k bracket but not many buyers will to get much over £400k judging by auction results.

Looking at auction results the last BB I can see for sale was this one is Dec 2019

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25502/lot/18/

Didn’t sell. High bid was £150k against low estimate of £180k; Looks to be a much nicer car than the CC one. From what i can see the last four BB’s that went to auction didn’t sell.

That one at Bonhams was the same car as the one sold on CC.

So could have taken the 150K in Dec instead of the 115K in April, not sure if that is just a reflection of the market or that an auction house like Bonhams can still command better prices than CC...... possibly a bit of both.

Edited by Maph7 on Wednesday 13th May 13:30

Wonder if the high bid of £150,000 at Bonhams was on fresh air just to get it nearer to the reserve,if it was a genuine bid the owner really got it wrong . If Bells had the car on S.O.R and failed to sell it along with no sale at Bonhams by the time CC had it up for auction it probably had to go for what ever reason.

[priley]

I think if the winner had been lusting after a 512BB to actually use, but thought they'd moved beyond their reach this has to be a great buy. It certainly looks the business and I dare say it sounds it too.

[sparta6]

I checked out this 512 in the flesh in February.
It's in very good order and the cockpit is a lovely place to be, simple with no clutter or distractions. Connolly aroma is also tough to eclipse.
Externally it's an elegant beast. Such presence, without really trying.
The Koenig add-on is not strictly to my taste but I would have kept in situ for a while to enjoy the induction / soundtrack / aesthetic delights.
Something else popped up so I did not proceed but its new owner has a fantastic new ride. Congrats !

[rat rod]

sparta6 said:

I checked out this 512 in the flesh in February.
It's in very good order and the cockpit is a lovely place to be, simple with no clutter or distractions. Connolly aroma is also tough to eclipse.
Externally it's an elegant beast. Such presence, without really trying.
The Koenig add-on is not strictly to my taste but I would have kept in situ for a while to enjoy the induction / soundtrack / aesthetic delights.
Something else popped up so I did not proceed but its new owner has a fantastic new ride. Congrats !

Oh ! was hoping you were going to say it was a bit of a heap ,that's made me feel even worse, thanks, There's a lot of educated car poeple at these top end auctions ,you would have thought someone would have seen the potential in the car and if the £150,000 wasn't a bid try and negotiate with Bonhams after the sale,Just goes to show that buyers in general don't like modified classics no matter what price,me on the other hand would have bought it because of the mods especially as John Woodfield owned and modified it,doesn't get much better than that,and not forgetting the price of cause' excuse me while i go and bang my head against the wall several times

[rat rod]

suigeneris said:

Thanks for your input but surely for someone who is being sensible with where he gets the parts, it wouldnt cost more than £15-20k to put this back to standard (even with the wheels and new springs) which still leaves a good £60-70k between this and the next cheapest example on the market which on double checking appears to be a private car at £200k (dealer examples still start at £250k)

Unless you are very capable and you could do the work yourself i doubt it could be done anywhere near £15/£20k , When you take in the labour cost alone from a respected body shop that you would be happy to entrust the project to .If the paint doesn't match which it probably won't the whole car will need a repaint and you may want to put it back to the original colour of blue which could cost the £15/£20 alone. If the wheel arches can't be reshaped to the original then a complete front and rear section would be needed ,that's almost 2/3rds the car and i very much doubt you could find decent second hand ones that would be worth having and not sure of the availability of new ones let alone the cost. Standard wheels and tyres again won't be easy to find either unless you get lucky and find them in the uk maybe Eurospares if not you will have to rely on American Ebay or source in Italy , You could leave the exhaust if you still wanted that extra magnificent sound but if you gone to all that trouble to put the car back to standard you will probably replace it with original exhaust, Brakes and suspension then need replacing. That leaves the carbureter covers on the rear deck,i expect you could do something with them but if you can't they are not cheap. Then you have the LM spec which knowing John Woodfield would be quite major ,carbs, cams and a lot more,so what do you do with that, I haven't worked what the cost might be but must be in wrong side of £100k with all the labour maybe more,Looking at current Boxer prices they seem to be anything between £180/£250k although some dealers are still asking £ 300k plus .What do you think ,is it a worthwhile project , all that aggro ,telephone calls, getting the runaround from workshops and painters,been there before at a lesser scale ,Just think what that would cost in todays money if you were foolish enough to buy a standard Boxer and put this conversion on it, some where around £350/£400k i would emagine with a doner car, now that makes it sound good value for money for the right person although i know a most of you wouldn't want to be seen in it, lucky we are all different as it would be a boring world, Me personally i think the car looks great as it is and at that price to,someone will pay £185k for it just have to wait for the right person meanwhile you can just enjoy driving it while you are waiting,Just my opinion it's sunday and i'm bored

Edited by rat rod on Sunday 17th May 19:24

[RHD-icons]

Standard or modded either way that was a very cheap car..
When you introduce logic into valuing cars it ticks a lot of boxes - 12 cylinder ferrari, u.k rhd, rarity, one of only 101 units and only 42 u.k units across 8 years supply?, was it any good in period? - yes, is it ready to go on the button - appears so, and the fact that it was the first u.k car must count for something?
Sure it will always have the mystery of why it was converted, but it was converted in period and at least the konig name had a bit of pedigree back then which kind of answers that question.
In summary - a good car new from a period when even seeing a ferrari was a special occasion, for less than half the price of an inferior dino!
Assuming the transaction was completed it surely has been very well bought.

[rat rod]

RHD-icons said:

Standard or modded either way that was a very cheap car..
When you introduce logic into valuing cars it ticks a lot of boxes - 12 cylinder ferrari, u.k rhd, rarity, one of only 101 units and only 42 u.k units across 8 years supply?, was it any good in period? - yes, is it ready to go on the button - appears so, and the fact that it was the first u.k car must count for something?
Sure it will always have the mystery of why it was converted, but it was converted in period and at least the konig name had a bit of pedigree back then which kind of answers that question.
In summary - a good car new from a period when even seeing a ferrari was a special occasion, for less than half the price of an inferior dino!
Assuming the transaction was completed it surely has been very well bought.

You are so wright this Boxer suffered the usual Ferrari snobbery associated with modified models,if they don't understand it they appear to be scared of it, The buyer of this car got on and bought it while the others were boohooing it and suddenly everybody has woken up to the fact .What a result the new owner has had, best of luck to him !

[trowelhead]

Irrelevant post but

Couple of years ago

I was hammering up a dual carriageway (A34 near Wilmslow) in the dead of night

and had the joy of pulling up next to a black 512BB in the wild

It sounded like a spitfire and had flames coming out of the exhaust as it was on the overrun slowing down to a roundabout.

There was no other cars about and I managed to follow it for a couple of mins gawping

I didn’t even know these cars at the time but I’ve never seen or heard anything quite like it - I can’t imagine these are spotted on the roads often

Incredible cars I’ve not seen anything with that much special factor on the road

[MDL111]

Saw a Koenig F48 this weekend - special looking things, was rhd too (which is unusual on the continent)

[priley]

trowelhead said:

Irrelevant post but

Couple of years ago

I was hammering up a dual carriageway (A34 near Wilmslow) in the dead of night

and had the joy of pulling up next to a black 512BB in the wild

It sounded like a spitfire and had flames coming out of the exhaust as it was on the overrun slowing down to a roundabout.

There was no other cars about and I managed to follow it for a couple of mins gawping

I didn’t even know these cars at the time but I’ve never seen or heard anything quite like it - I can’t imagine these are spotted on the roads often

Incredible cars I’ve not seen anything with that much special factor on the road

Love that. And I'll reiterate that I think the buyer has got something very special there.

[rat rod]

trowelhead said:

Irrelevant post but

Couple of years ago

I was hammering up a dual carriageway (A34 near Wilmslow) in the dead of night

and had the joy of pulling up next to a black 512BB in the wild

It sounded like a spitfire and had flames coming out of the exhaust as it was on the overrun slowing down to a roundabout.

There was no other cars about and I managed to follow it for a couple of mins gawping

I didn’t even know these cars at the time but I’ve never seen or heard anything quite like it - I can’t imagine these are spotted on the roads often

Incredible cars I’ve not seen anything with that much special factor on the road

Done the same but a Jarama , never mind sports exhaust this one must have had straight pipes also had huge flames on down changes and overrun ,Quite spectacular especially as it was dusk,wish i had bought a dash cam , ended up on a due carriage way going the opposite way i should have been going and did around trip of 36 miles to get back to where i was,

Edited by rat rod on Tuesday 19th May 20:34

[anonymous-user]

trowelhead said:

Irrelevant post but

Couple of years ago

I was hammering up a dual carriageway (A34 near Wilmslow) in the dead of night

and had the joy of pulling up next to a black 512BB in the wild

It sounded like a spitfire and had flames coming out of the exhaust as it was on the overrun slowing down to a roundabout.

There was no other cars about and I managed to follow it for a couple of mins gawping

I didn’t even know these cars at the time but I’ve never seen or heard anything quite like it - I can’t imagine these are spotted on the roads often

Incredible cars I’ve not seen anything with that much special factor on the road

An old boss of mine used to race in the UK Ferrari Challenge. He invited me to passenger in his 360 Challenge at a Ferrari Owners Club day at Brands, where he wanted to do some testing.

I remember us following a fairly smokey 512BB along the pit straight and through Paddock Hill, being in awe of the grunt it had. Delightful to see it (and others, including F40s), being given the absolute pasting they deserved.

[trowelhead]

priley said:

trowelhead said:

Irrelevant post but

Couple of years ago

I was hammering up a dual carriageway (A34 near Wilmslow) in the dead of night

and had the joy of pulling up next to a black 512BB in the wild

It sounded like a spitfire and had flames coming out of the exhaust as it was on the overrun slowing down to a roundabout.

There was no other cars about and I managed to follow it for a couple of mins gawping

I didn’t even know these cars at the time but I’ve never seen or heard anything quite like it - I can’t imagine these are spotted on the roads often

Incredible cars I’ve not seen anything with that much special factor on the road

Love that. And I'll reiterate that I think the buyer has got something very special there.

Thanks, it really stuck with me - was like being a kid again - i was just in awe ha! Seen all sorts of modern stuff but nothing a patch on the impression that made.

Might be wrong but I got the impression the owner was out at night to just enjoy it with no one else around which is even cooler.

I'm sure whoever bought that will be thrilled, especially at that price. Its a piece of art.

[trowelhead]

rat rod said:

trowelhead said:

Irrelevant post but

Couple of years ago

I was hammering up a dual carriageway (A34 near Wilmslow) in the dead of night

and had the joy of pulling up next to a black 512BB in the wild

It sounded like a spitfire and had flames coming out of the exhaust as it was on the overrun slowing down to a roundabout.

There was no other cars about and I managed to follow it for a couple of mins gawping

I didn’t even know these cars at the time but I’ve never seen or heard anything quite like it - I can’t imagine these are spotted on the roads often

Incredible cars I’ve not seen anything with that much special factor on the road

Done the same but a Jarama , never mind sports exhaust this one must have had straight pipes also had huge flames on down changes and overrun ,Quite spectacular especially as it was dusk,wish i had bought a dash cam , ended up on a due carriage way going the opposite way i should have been going and did around trip of 36 miles to get back to where i was,

Edited by rat rod on Tuesday 19th May 20:34

Sounds very cool, its a special experience seeing that - especially at dark / dusk - with the flames and noise - otherworldly haha

[rat rod]

MDL111 said:

Saw a Koenig F48 this weekend - special looking things, was rhd too (which is unusual on the continent)

I quite like it ,a bit of a poor man's F40,Think you might get a mixed reaction at the Ferrari owners club though just like i did when i turned up in my track 308 GTB, a few bumps and bruises, back end covered in exhaust soot and oil and wheels covered in brake dust, didn't help as i parked it among the concourse 308's when nobody was looking, I was soon asked to move ,I think they wanted to put me behind a big oak tree that was nearby,funny don't have that trouble at Silverstone or any other track for that matter, horses for courses i suppose,See Simon Furlonger got a F48 for sale at just shy of £150K ,think i'd rather pay a little extra and have a Scud .

Edited by rat rod on Wednesday 20th May 01:25

[DeejRC]

Owners clubs are all the same.

I think the 512BB is my favourite of the "What Deej turned down at silly money a few years ago" stories. £35k from KHPC in 2004.

I still can't believe I was that stupid. (I really really was)

[rat rod]

DeejRC said:

Owners clubs are all the same.

I think the 512BB is my favourite of the "What Deej turned down at silly money a few years ago" stories. £35k from KHPC in 2004.

I still can't believe I was that stupid. (I really really was)

We've all done it at some time ,they say the biggest regrets are what you didn't do rather than what you did,In my case it's probably what i did.

[MDL111]

rat rod said:

MDL111 said:

Saw a Koenig F48 this weekend - special looking things, was rhd too (which is unusual on the continent)

I quite like it ,a bit of a poor man's F40,Think you might get a mixed reaction at the Ferrari owners club though just like i did when i turned up in my track 308 GTB, a few bumps and bruises, back end covered in exhaust soot and oil and wheels covered in brake dust, didn't help as i parked it among the concourse 308's when nobody was looking, I was soon asked to move ,I think they wanted to put me behind a big oak tree that was nearby,funny don't have that trouble at Silverstone or any other track for that matter, horses for courses i suppose,See Simon Furlonger got a F48 for sale at just shy of £150K ,think i'd rather pay a little extra and have a Scud .

Edited by rat rod on Wednesday 20th May 01:25

Mmhh yes, not an owners club type car - the few Ferrari events I attended the cars always seemed to be polished and mostly standard. I think Ferrari actually states in the docs that a modified car isn’t allowed to attend / go on track or similar (not sure how rigorously they enforce that one). I grew up in the 80s and remember seeing an Auto Motor und Sport with a Koenig F50 Turbo on the cover - the cars look very much like 80s excess, but even lovely for it imo - an acquired taste without a doubt.