Everyday ‘Supercar’

[DanL]

BlackWidow13 said:

They are both just money making exercises playing to vanity.

Are you not also describing a supercar there?

[LeroyLoser]

Hedgeman said:

popeyewhite said:

Hedgeman said:

I'm not sure there is any other explanation for why a car like the R8 V10+ with 600+ bhp,

Not really a selling point, plenty of saloons (E63 etc) with way more than that when tuned. I recall an early Youtube vid where a standard supercharged E55 took on the current (at that time) R8 and won.

Hedgeman said:

Ultimately though the psychology of this and people's reaction is the interesting part.

What do you mean by "psychology of this"?

This must be the first time someone has suggested that a mid mounted 600+ bhp normally aspirated V10 that spins to almost 9k rpm and is more sonorous than almost anything else on the road is "not a selling point"

By psychology, I mean that it's more interesting to listen to the views people have and think about how they fit into the framework of human behaviour, emotions and drives, than the ultimate subjective classification.

Always the ‘why’ people believe or behave in a certain way over something quite futile has always been far more interesting, this thread is a perfect example.

Fringe sitters / observers (like myself) always find things like this interesting, the real reasons behind their beliefs go way way back, pertinent questioning mostly results in anger from them as you get nearer the truth..

[anonymous-user]

DanL said:

BlackWidow13 said:

They are both just money making exercises playing to vanity.

Are you not also describing a supercar there?

I’m probably describing lots of types of cars, not just super cars (actual or would be).

[ChrisPackit]

I think to summarise this thread, unless your car has a Ferrari, Lambo or Mclaren badge, your car is not a supercar.

Apologies to the Ford GT owners, as they also make a Fiesta...
New Honda NSX owners, as they also make a Jazz...
Audi R8 owners, as they also make an A3...

etc etc ... Said very tongue in cheek...

C

Edited by ChrisPackit on Thursday 11th November 11:36

[PH User]

Its all just different opinions and actually doesn't really matter anyway. If you enjoy your car then why worry if others don't view it as a supercar.

[Gibbo205]

ChrisPackit said:

I think to summarise this thread, unless your car has a Ferrari, Lambo or Mclaren badge, your car is not a supercar.

Apologies to the Ford GT owners, as they also make a Fiesta...
New Honda NSX owners, as they also make a Jazz...
Audi R8 owners, as they also make an A3...

etc etc

C

Can't agree, a Ford GT has more presence on the road than any of the big name supercar brands and I own a Ferrari, but when I see a Ford GT I nod in respect as those things have incredible road presence.

The new Honda NSX is essentially a mini Ferrari SF90 for 1/4 of the price.

R8 I will cut you some slack and its an argument that could go on forever, but they look good, sound great and the V10 goes well, the V8 is not fast any more by modern car standards but its still an ace drive.

But everyday supercar, well yes most modern ones can do that now, but you will run up some large bills so I go back to the Lotus Emira, supercar looks, great soundtrack, awesome manual, two seater, whilst its rare it will get huge attention, but yes it is essentially an incredible sports car in a supercar dress, but who can complain when they cost 60-80k brand new.

[sparta6]

Trev450 said:

I'm with TP321 on this. I've used high-end sports cars as dailys in the past but found the sparkle quickly dissapeared. Taking them out once in a while keeps the aura of specialness and is something to look forward to.

Edited by Trev450 on Wednesday 10th November 10:54

Agree.
Same with supermodels.

[ChrisPackit]

Gibbo205 said:

Can't agree, a Ford GT has more presence on the road than any of the big name supercar brands and I own a Ferrari, but when I see a Ford GT I nod in respect as those things have incredible road presence.

The new Honda NSX is essentially a mini Ferrari SF90 for 1/4 of the price.

R8 I will cut you some slack and its an argument that could go on forever, but they look good, sound great and the V10 goes well, the V8 is not fast any more by modern car standards but its still an ace drive.

But everyday supercar, well yes most modern ones can do that now, but you will run up some large bills so I go back to the Lotus Emira, supercar looks, great soundtrack, awesome manual, two seater, whilst its rare it will get huge attention, but yes it is essentially an incredible sports car in a supercar dress, but who can complain when they cost 60-80k brand new.

Sorry, it was said very tongue in cheek! I own an R8 and don't care what people 'class' it as, I enjoy it and it gets the looks and stares from Joe public.

C

[Oilchange]

Gibbo205 said:

ChrisPackit said:

I think to summarise this thread, unless your car has a Ferrari, Lambo or Mclaren badge, your car is not a supercar.

Apologies to the Ford GT owners, as they also make a Fiesta...
New Honda NSX owners, as they also make a Jazz...
Audi R8 owners, as they also make an A3...

etc etc

C

Can't agree, a Ford GT has more presence on the road than any of the big name supercar brands and I own a Ferrari, but when I see a Ford GT I nod in respect as those things have incredible road presence.

The new Honda NSX is essentially a mini Ferrari SF90 for 1/4 of the price.

R8 I will cut you some slack and its an argument that could go on forever, but they look good, sound great and the V10 goes well, the V8 is not fast any more by modern car standards but its still an ace drive.

But everyday supercar, well yes most modern ones can do that now, but you will run up some large bills so I go back to the Lotus Emira, supercar looks, great soundtrack, awesome manual, two seater, whilst its rare it will get huge attention, but yes it is essentially an incredible sports car in a supercar dress, but who can complain when they cost 60-80k brand new.

Nobody knows what a supercar isn't. There is no such definition and there is no real yardstick for what a supercar is.
I have my own ideas of course but with that in mind, I'd only take advice on what a supercar from that little boy with the poster of his favourite motor on the wall.

[marky7seven]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Love your logic! And the F12 is an amazing car.

[popeyewhite]

Hedgeman said:

This must be the first time someone has suggested that a mid mounted 600+ bhp normally aspirated V10 that spins to almost 9k rpm and is more sonorous than almost anything else on the road is "not a selling point"

Time moves on. 600 bhp isn't that special anymore and I personally prefer the noise from a flat four turbo [shrugs].

Hedgeman said:

By psychology, I mean that it's more interesting to listen to the views people have and think about how they fit into the framework of human behaviour, emotions and drives, than the ultimate subjective classification.

Ah OK, it's an emotive subject, certainly I think really it boils down to what people think of as 'super' in this context.

[vanman1936]

Has anyone answered the OPs Q or are we just arguing the unwinable debate?

[Trev450]

vanman1936 said:

Has anyone answered the OPs Q or are we just arguing the unwinable debate?

Don't be silly, this is PH.

[PGNSagaris]

Oilchange said:

There is no such definition and there is no real yardstick for what a supercar is.

Except to say, an R8 isn’t.

OP, get an F12. Utterly spectacular

[popeyewhite]

Oilchange said:

There is no such definition and there is no real yardstick for what a supercar is.

Well, there's a definition of 'car' and there's definition of 'super'...it's more the fact that some people just don't think an R8 is incredible or magnificent enough to earn the moniker.

[Oilchange]

If the little lad has a poster of one on his wall then that's that.
Do they even do R8 posters?

[HIS LM]

The OP appears to have disappeared into the ether and in typical PH fashion we have thread drift onto the definition of a supercar, a topic which crops
up repeatedly and inevitably descends into chaos.

Opinions are like ass-holes everybody has one

[Hedgeman]

MKnight702 said:

Hedgeman said:

But the more I read of this thread, the more convinced I am that for a great many people here, supercar is simply 90% brand and 10% a mix of other stuff. Which makes me question the real level of driving and automotive engineering enthusiasm of many.

You question the driving enthusiasm of the majority of people? Why, most people on the road haven’t a clue about driving and care even less, they see a car as a disposable white good.

This is why the emotional element of supercarness is important, the majority of people would recognise a Lamborghini or Ferrari and automatically associate it with something special, the fact that it isn’t necessarily as fast as a modern hot hatch wouldn’t register as they do not care about cars. You will see Dad in his new Zafailure point a 348 out to his kids, he probably wouldn’t even register that the Audi with the loud exhaust isn’t just a Barried TT since he sees Audis everywhere.

I question it because I would assert that real enthusiasts of a thing establish a hierarchy that classifies based on the merits of the thing itself, not how it is perceived by uninformed masses. Unless of course the most important thing to them is actually the opinion of the uninformed. And this thread, since it's on a car enthusiasts forum presumably has the opinions of car "enthusiasts", not "most people".

I love the comment "barried TT" though. It's these sorts of responses and the psychology behind them that make participating in threads like this worthwhile

[PH User]

Hedgeman said:

MKnight702 said:

Hedgeman said:

But the more I read of this thread, the more convinced I am that for a great many people here, supercar is simply 90% brand and 10% a mix of other stuff. Which makes me question the real level of driving and automotive engineering enthusiasm of many.

You question the driving enthusiasm of the majority of people? Why, most people on the road haven’t a clue about driving and care even less, they see a car as a disposable white good.

This is why the emotional element of supercarness is important, the majority of people would recognise a Lamborghini or Ferrari and automatically associate it with something special, the fact that it isn’t necessarily as fast as a modern hot hatch wouldn’t register as they do not care about cars. You will see Dad in his new Zafailure point a 348 out to his kids, he probably wouldn’t even register that the Audi with the loud exhaust isn’t just a Barried TT since he sees Audis everywhere.

I question it because I would assert that real enthusiasts of a thing establish a hierarchy that classifies based on the merits of the thing itself, not how it is perceived by uninformed masses. Unless of course the most important thing to them is actually the opinion of the uninformed. And this thread, since it's on a car enthusiasts forum presumably has the opinions of car "enthusiasts", not "most people".

I love the comment "barried TT" though. It's these sorts of responses and the psychology behind them that make participating in threads like this worthwhile

I am very much a car/driving/petrol enthusiast, but I still don't view an R8 as being a supercar, make of that what you will.

[Hedgeman]

PH User said:

I am very much a car/driving/petrol enthusiast, but I still don't view an R8 as being a supercar, make of that what you will.

Well I'm sure you are not alone in such self identification.

What do I make of it? With regard to the vehicle, it really depends what you do consider a supercar. It's the relative classification here and the reasons behind it that is interesting.

And as to driving, there's a bit of a spectrum here too. Are you Bealach na Ba, or more a King's Road type of wheelman?