Discussion
I had a 430 previously and loved it, did 10k miles in a few years. Wonderful and stunning to look at. You could properly use it I felt very much a drivers car.
Loads of room in it and very comfortable. A bit raw and noisy though.
To be fair, this was only a problem once I bought the 458. Love the 458 it’s just that bit more modern, utterly insane interface and less comfortable.
I sort of still miss the 430, but the 458 is way faster and more user friendly, no clutch worry and sounds amazing. I’m had both for about 2 years and never drove the 430. When I did i found it noisy and raw.
The I got my 720 and OMG I love this thing. Last year the 720 did 5k miles and the 458 1k if that.
I really think the 12C is starting to look very classy and cool.
It’s a wonderful problem to have, get both
I love owning a Ferrari, but the McLaren is the keeper.
Loads of room in it and very comfortable. A bit raw and noisy though.
To be fair, this was only a problem once I bought the 458. Love the 458 it’s just that bit more modern, utterly insane interface and less comfortable.
I sort of still miss the 430, but the 458 is way faster and more user friendly, no clutch worry and sounds amazing. I’m had both for about 2 years and never drove the 430. When I did i found it noisy and raw.
The I got my 720 and OMG I love this thing. Last year the 720 did 5k miles and the 458 1k if that.
I really think the 12C is starting to look very classy and cool.
It’s a wonderful problem to have, get both
I love owning a Ferrari, but the McLaren is the keeper.
Do you want an engine with a car or a car with an engine?
That's the best way I can describe the difference between Ferrari & McLaren. And as amazing as engines are they are only a part of the overall experience of a car and its qualities.
I owned a 12C & F355 manual together for a couple of years. I appreciate an F355 is not an F430 BUT they are usually bought for the same reasons, the emotional engine, its soundtrack & because its a 'Ferrari'. The F355 had those same attributes but otherwise it did nothing for me dynamically. The 12C was one of my favourite cars, I miss it dearly. It looks classy, it can tour in ease with loads of luggage space and at 35mpg on the autoroutes, it is really comfortable and is ballistically rapid with astonishing handling & steering.
For reliability and running costs the 12C had the usual corrosion, not an issue now as lots of body shop can deal with it for the same price as a normal car. In 14k miles the 12C never let me down. I only paid for the warranty. I have a record of its costs per mile (depreciation, abnormals & warranty) and it worked out at £1.14p per mile. The F355 stranded me quite a few times. Its depreciation, abnormals & repairs worked out at £2.13p per mile. That's without its 15-20mpg compared to the 12C's 25-35mpg or servicing costs.
The 12C has a carbon tub, the CoG is pushed into the middle of the car by the portrait screen, everything is considered and thought through to make it the best. All wrapped up in a Saville Row suit.
After owning the F355 I don't want another Ferrari. However I bought another McLaren, a 675LT, and I'm now in my 6th year of ownership after 16k miles and not a single issue, its even appreciated in value.
That's the best way I can describe the difference between Ferrari & McLaren. And as amazing as engines are they are only a part of the overall experience of a car and its qualities.
I owned a 12C & F355 manual together for a couple of years. I appreciate an F355 is not an F430 BUT they are usually bought for the same reasons, the emotional engine, its soundtrack & because its a 'Ferrari'. The F355 had those same attributes but otherwise it did nothing for me dynamically. The 12C was one of my favourite cars, I miss it dearly. It looks classy, it can tour in ease with loads of luggage space and at 35mpg on the autoroutes, it is really comfortable and is ballistically rapid with astonishing handling & steering.
For reliability and running costs the 12C had the usual corrosion, not an issue now as lots of body shop can deal with it for the same price as a normal car. In 14k miles the 12C never let me down. I only paid for the warranty. I have a record of its costs per mile (depreciation, abnormals & warranty) and it worked out at £1.14p per mile. The F355 stranded me quite a few times. Its depreciation, abnormals & repairs worked out at £2.13p per mile. That's without its 15-20mpg compared to the 12C's 25-35mpg or servicing costs.
The 12C has a carbon tub, the CoG is pushed into the middle of the car by the portrait screen, everything is considered and thought through to make it the best. All wrapped up in a Saville Row suit.
After owning the F355 I don't want another Ferrari. However I bought another McLaren, a 675LT, and I'm now in my 6th year of ownership after 16k miles and not a single issue, its even appreciated in value.
Edited by Bispal on Monday 17th February 10:28
A lot has been said above which I totally agree with - almost a head (Mclaren) v heart (Ferrari) decision.
I've had a 360, 430, 650 spider and now a 570 spider. The 430 I had for 4 years and did 25k miles, the 650 for 2 years and 12k miles. Inbetween the two Mclarens I had the chance to buy my old 430 back but didn't - and I am pleased I didn't. I use my cars as a daily and take on 2-3 roadtrips a year.
If you're buying for noise alone then the 430 wins hands down. And that's about it really - save for the badge and history - but as cars, the Mclaren wins hands down. The Mclaren has equal road presence but it's jekyl and hyde personalities of being about to cruise/potter about and them to take a mountain pass like nothing I've driven this side of a GT3 never stops making me smile. The ride quality, fit and finish, pure speed and handling means as much as I love my Ferraris I went back to a Mclaren.
There's a lot of talk about issues, but the Ferrari cost me more to run than either Mclaren. To break down:
Ferrari - many sets of ball joints, clutch (F1 box), F1 pump hose (stranding me in France) and the big one - manifolds.
Mclaren - 650: new catch on fuel filler cap (to be fair just before bought it had all new V Engineering actuators) / 570: new steering pump (I think it had some front suspension work done under warranty prior to my purchase and it needs the door hinges replaced - but by Mclaren).
If want true peace of mind have the cars inspected by the likes of Tim Walker and V Engineering respectively.
Wonderful choice to have and if you're like me and plan to have/try many different cars then buy the 430 first. If you by the 12C first and then get the 430 I suspect you will miss the Mclaren!
I've had a 360, 430, 650 spider and now a 570 spider. The 430 I had for 4 years and did 25k miles, the 650 for 2 years and 12k miles. Inbetween the two Mclarens I had the chance to buy my old 430 back but didn't - and I am pleased I didn't. I use my cars as a daily and take on 2-3 roadtrips a year.
If you're buying for noise alone then the 430 wins hands down. And that's about it really - save for the badge and history - but as cars, the Mclaren wins hands down. The Mclaren has equal road presence but it's jekyl and hyde personalities of being about to cruise/potter about and them to take a mountain pass like nothing I've driven this side of a GT3 never stops making me smile. The ride quality, fit and finish, pure speed and handling means as much as I love my Ferraris I went back to a Mclaren.
There's a lot of talk about issues, but the Ferrari cost me more to run than either Mclaren. To break down:
Ferrari - many sets of ball joints, clutch (F1 box), F1 pump hose (stranding me in France) and the big one - manifolds.
Mclaren - 650: new catch on fuel filler cap (to be fair just before bought it had all new V Engineering actuators) / 570: new steering pump (I think it had some front suspension work done under warranty prior to my purchase and it needs the door hinges replaced - but by Mclaren).
If want true peace of mind have the cars inspected by the likes of Tim Walker and V Engineering respectively.
Wonderful choice to have and if you're like me and plan to have/try many different cars then buy the 430 first. If you by the 12C first and then get the 430 I suspect you will miss the Mclaren!
Edited by Nero77 on Monday 17th February 12:43
Thanks to everyone for their input, I've got more genuine testimonials then I imagined I would.
What everyone is saying is echoing through, it seems that each car offers exactly what I thought it would.
Hopefully I will come to a decision in the next week or two and I will make sure to leave an update.
What everyone is saying is echoing through, it seems that each car offers exactly what I thought it would.
Hopefully I will come to a decision in the next week or two and I will make sure to leave an update.
Olivera said:
F430. The 12C was one of those rare cars that Tiff Needell and Jason Plato drove and said "I don't like this [unresolved handling and hence not a satisfying drive]".
As in they couldn't make it go sideways because they didn't know how to turn off TC (or) the car hadn't had the software update. I don't know which but both are now 100% irrelevant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mzft6UDqUE
And I must say, unless you have the ability to safety control a 600bhp, 1,340 kilo, twin turbo charged, RWD supercar drifting sideways on the public highway its not something I would recommend.
That fifth gear video did a good job of hurting McLaren. Luckily now it can be 'fact checked' and there are enough owners out there who know better than a couple of ex racing drivers trying to drift a car on an old airfield without reading the owners manual, as if airfield drifting is the one and only factor to be considered in a purchase.
Chris Harris loved the 12C in his early reviews. And he knew how to turn the TC off. See 10 mins 10 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mKB-8WUB5k
You have to laugh though don't you.
Multiple replies from people who've actually owned both - or similar - with pretty balanced views on both cars.
And then "In a 12 year old review, Fifth Gear said the McLaren was rubbish".
Very useful.
Multiple replies from people who've actually owned both - or similar - with pretty balanced views on both cars.
And then "In a 12 year old review, Fifth Gear said the McLaren was rubbish".
Very useful.
Edited by davek_964 on Monday 17th February 13:50
The Plato/Needel thing was rubbish. Even the Ferrari fan boy Clarkson could not deny that the 12C wiped the floor with the 458, quicker than an Enzo, even quicker than the Veyron SS and that was the pre-updates car.
OP, nice position to be in, I looked briefly at 430 but for me it's a bit dated especially inside. Now you know where my vote would be
Had mine 4.5 years now and it makes me smile every single time I get in it. THE best car I've ever had. good luck with choice/purchase.
OP, nice position to be in, I looked briefly at 430 but for me it's a bit dated especially inside. Now you know where my vote would be
Had mine 4.5 years now and it makes me smile every single time I get in it. THE best car I've ever had. good luck with choice/purchase. Olivera said:
F430. The 12C was one of those rare cars that Tiff Needell and Jason Plato drove and said "I don't like this [unresolved handling and hence not a satisfying drive]".
I remember watching the review in question when I was in the process of shopping for a 12CThe entire review takes place on a closed test track, driving on the road doesn't even feature. The conclusion is based on two things; either sliding it at 100 mph around a closed private test track or getting a professional racing driver to set timed laps around that test track. If that's your primary metric may I suggest a caterham.
Fifth gear is an entertainment show, not impartial consumer advice. As a regular person looking for a car to drive on the road I saw precisely no value in that review. It was fun to watch though, which was the point of it.
JuniorD said:
The F430 isn't the best looking Ferarri but it seems to have got much better with age, especially in view of all the new Ferrari rubbish. The 12C on the other hand never looked that good and has only got worse over tim with a distinct whiff of bargain bucket Mclaren.
Well that wraps that up then.
Well, having now entered my 7th year of ownership of my 12C (owned since 759 miles) and adding almost 14k miles in that time, I can categorically say that it is the best car that I have owned - and I have well over 120 cars in the last 35 years and I still have a dozen or so now!
Looks - in my eyes the 12C is actually the most timeless modern McLaren shape (in the right colour). Not shouty, classic proportions and doesn't scrape the tarmac at every opportunity (sorry 675LT owners!).
Performance - one of the only cars that I have owned that I have kept completely standard (other than fitting OEM 720S wheels as I love the design) as its performance is the perfect balance between "enough" and "too much"! I have owned many more powerful cars BUT if you push a car too far outside of its designed performance envelope, you can easily ruin a car as it loses its "usability" in exchange for a bit more of something that you can only use 5% of the time (outright speed / acceleration). How McLaren harness 625bhp (and a LOT of torque) through the rear wheels is magical.
Handling - rides better than our old Bentley GT Speed did, corners like its on slicks (I run MPS4S's) rain or shine, superb brake feel (steels with RS29 pads) and just rewards the driver when driven as McLaren intended (the brake steer takes a little getting used to but is superb once you trust it).
Reliability - yes, I renew my McLaren warranty every year BUT my 12C has never let me down, has needed very little work (all covered under warranty with the exception of rectification of some corrosion) and runs like clock work. I have had many other brands (most brands in fact) and McLaren is right up there as one of the most reliable and this gives huge confidence when setting off on long road trips (we are doing Spain & Portugal again soon).
I have never owned a 430 but I have driven numerous Ferrari's (inc 430) and I am sorry but they do absolutely nothing for me. The fact that McLaren is a British brand means a lot to me BUT I still buy cars on engineering excellence and technology - this is where a 430 (and even the 458) falls way short of a 12C with its carbon tub, magical ride and blistering performance.
Everyone should have an Italian classic in their collection and I am no exception - my Alfa 105 GTV 2000 restomod gives me all of the Italian flare that I need but doesn't disappoint on the performance front (like a 430 would) as it is not supposed to be FAST but it does live upto to being BEAUTIFUL (like a 430)!
So, my 12C is the best car out there for being a CAR and the Italian stuff are simply moving art forms (and they do that better than most).
Looks - in my eyes the 12C is actually the most timeless modern McLaren shape (in the right colour). Not shouty, classic proportions and doesn't scrape the tarmac at every opportunity (sorry 675LT owners!).
Performance - one of the only cars that I have owned that I have kept completely standard (other than fitting OEM 720S wheels as I love the design) as its performance is the perfect balance between "enough" and "too much"! I have owned many more powerful cars BUT if you push a car too far outside of its designed performance envelope, you can easily ruin a car as it loses its "usability" in exchange for a bit more of something that you can only use 5% of the time (outright speed / acceleration). How McLaren harness 625bhp (and a LOT of torque) through the rear wheels is magical.
Handling - rides better than our old Bentley GT Speed did, corners like its on slicks (I run MPS4S's) rain or shine, superb brake feel (steels with RS29 pads) and just rewards the driver when driven as McLaren intended (the brake steer takes a little getting used to but is superb once you trust it).
Reliability - yes, I renew my McLaren warranty every year BUT my 12C has never let me down, has needed very little work (all covered under warranty with the exception of rectification of some corrosion) and runs like clock work. I have had many other brands (most brands in fact) and McLaren is right up there as one of the most reliable and this gives huge confidence when setting off on long road trips (we are doing Spain & Portugal again soon).
I have never owned a 430 but I have driven numerous Ferrari's (inc 430) and I am sorry but they do absolutely nothing for me. The fact that McLaren is a British brand means a lot to me BUT I still buy cars on engineering excellence and technology - this is where a 430 (and even the 458) falls way short of a 12C with its carbon tub, magical ride and blistering performance.
Everyone should have an Italian classic in their collection and I am no exception - my Alfa 105 GTV 2000 restomod gives me all of the Italian flare that I need but doesn't disappoint on the performance front (like a 430 would) as it is not supposed to be FAST but it does live upto to being BEAUTIFUL (like a 430)!
So, my 12C is the best car out there for being a CAR and the Italian stuff are simply moving art forms (and they do that better than most).
I love both but it would be the 12c for me (in orange or met purple) with added bonus they are going to shoot up in value one day when people realise just how much next gen engineering Mclaren gave us in the 12c which started the horse power wars we now see between manufacturers. Love seeing 625bhp being described as perfect balance between enough and too much. I an attest to 12c being a blisteringly fast car if you can find enough road to let them off the leash 
I like the 430 too. Would have to be a manual coupe or scud. In fact for road use may be the better bet as if old bill ever catch a Mac owner letting their car go its jail time in about 5 to 6 secs! In 10 to 15 secs they'd throw they keys away after throwing you in jail
I like the 430 too. Would have to be a manual coupe or scud. In fact for road use may be the better bet as if old bill ever catch a Mac owner letting their car go its jail time in about 5 to 6 secs! In 10 to 15 secs they'd throw they keys away after throwing you in jail
I have an update, a car has been purchased!
After much deliberation and with help from the comments above I decided that in fact the Mclaren was the better car in nearly every way.
When I'd previously viewed the 12C in question I'd told the owner where I needed to be price wise and although he didn't say the words, he led me to believe he would accept that offer if I settled on that car.
So after I'd made my decision I went to see him and the car for the third time and told him I'd have it, at this point he said he wouldn't accept my offer and he wasn't willing to budge. After discussions I came up a bit and he came down a bit but we couldn't meet, so I walked away.
When I left I was really gutted and I thought I'd wait a couple of days to see if he changes his mind and if not I'd probably increase my offer anyway.
Well just a couple hours later I heard from him, a text saying he was rescinding his previous offer he'd made in person and the price had gone back up to his original price. With this I was able to strike this car from my mind as there was no way I would pay a price for a car that was more than I could have had it for earlier that day, it would bother me for my entire ownership.
I was very specific with the condition and spec of 12C I was looking for, nothing else similar was for sale. I expanded to 650S but again nothing in my ideal colour and it was also stretching the budget a bit. I have never financed a car and don't ever want to so my budget is fixed with the savings I have.
I began looking at Ferraris again and ultimately decided that was the route to go. I admit the Mclaren is still the better car, but I've always thought of myself as a 'Ferrari guy', even though I'd had very little to do with them and never been able to afford one. I've loved the F430 since I first saw it on Top Gear as a teenager back in 04/05. I know if I didn't get one I would always want one and the only way to know if I would like it and be able to cross it off my list is to try owning one. I also took a lot of weight from people who replied here telling me if you're going to own an F430 and a Mclaren, get the Ferrari first.
So I went back to the F430 owner, the car was never advertised officially so it didn't look its best. He'd pulled it in the garage after its last drive in November and then not touched it since. Before I went to view it again he had the car detailed and ceramic coated so it looked much better. A deal was struck and then yesterday I went to see him for the third time, but this time took my trailer.
I'm happy to say that now at 34 years old I'm the owner of a 2007 Rosso over Crema F1 F430.
How I will take to the car is yet to be seen. It might be a case of never meet your heroes and I might be trying to get out of it before Summer, or it may be a dream come true. Either way I'm pretty certain that after this I will be moving in to a 12C or 650S. Regardless of how much more money I can save in the next few years, I don't think I'd be comfortable owning a 6 figure car and nothing else really appeals to me in this price range.
Thanks for all the help.
After much deliberation and with help from the comments above I decided that in fact the Mclaren was the better car in nearly every way.
When I'd previously viewed the 12C in question I'd told the owner where I needed to be price wise and although he didn't say the words, he led me to believe he would accept that offer if I settled on that car.
So after I'd made my decision I went to see him and the car for the third time and told him I'd have it, at this point he said he wouldn't accept my offer and he wasn't willing to budge. After discussions I came up a bit and he came down a bit but we couldn't meet, so I walked away.
When I left I was really gutted and I thought I'd wait a couple of days to see if he changes his mind and if not I'd probably increase my offer anyway.
Well just a couple hours later I heard from him, a text saying he was rescinding his previous offer he'd made in person and the price had gone back up to his original price. With this I was able to strike this car from my mind as there was no way I would pay a price for a car that was more than I could have had it for earlier that day, it would bother me for my entire ownership.
I was very specific with the condition and spec of 12C I was looking for, nothing else similar was for sale. I expanded to 650S but again nothing in my ideal colour and it was also stretching the budget a bit. I have never financed a car and don't ever want to so my budget is fixed with the savings I have.
I began looking at Ferraris again and ultimately decided that was the route to go. I admit the Mclaren is still the better car, but I've always thought of myself as a 'Ferrari guy', even though I'd had very little to do with them and never been able to afford one. I've loved the F430 since I first saw it on Top Gear as a teenager back in 04/05. I know if I didn't get one I would always want one and the only way to know if I would like it and be able to cross it off my list is to try owning one. I also took a lot of weight from people who replied here telling me if you're going to own an F430 and a Mclaren, get the Ferrari first.
So I went back to the F430 owner, the car was never advertised officially so it didn't look its best. He'd pulled it in the garage after its last drive in November and then not touched it since. Before I went to view it again he had the car detailed and ceramic coated so it looked much better. A deal was struck and then yesterday I went to see him for the third time, but this time took my trailer.
I'm happy to say that now at 34 years old I'm the owner of a 2007 Rosso over Crema F1 F430.
How I will take to the car is yet to be seen. It might be a case of never meet your heroes and I might be trying to get out of it before Summer, or it may be a dream come true. Either way I'm pretty certain that after this I will be moving in to a 12C or 650S. Regardless of how much more money I can save in the next few years, I don't think I'd be comfortable owning a 6 figure car and nothing else really appeals to me in this price range.
Thanks for all the help.
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