Recommended Oil

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Discussion

JSG

Original Poster:

2,238 posts

240 months

Thursday 9th May 2002
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There has been much debate about what oil is best for TVR engines on PistonHeads, all seem to agree on synthetic oil - but which brands are best for general fast road use? What do you guys use?

I ran the previous V6 on Mobil 1 as it was recomended by the specialist who serviced it.

The V8S was serviced in December by David Geralds (as part of the deal) and they used Mobil 1. Is this the best or should I look to change? I am more concerned with protecting the engine than cost so I don't want to scrimp, but I don't want to waste money I could use on beer, pies or suspension improvements.

Cheers,
JSG.

JohnLow

1,762 posts

222 months

Thursday 9th May 2002
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I've read a couple of times that Mobil 1 isn't recommended - but I've never been able to confirm why, or get a definitive answer. And if it's not the best for V8s then what is?

M@H

11,217 posts

229 months

Thursday 9th May 2002
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Millers full Synthetic.. as reccomended by TVR (so it says on the tin) 30 a can..

Cheers
Matt.

JMorgan

36,010 posts

241 months

Thursday 9th May 2002
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3 or 4 year old block, rebuilt 4.2 recommended by the builder as the others too thin, Valvoline 20W/50 raceing oil. For my motor only so not sure about the rest.
At the last service he changed the gearbox oil to a new type, should have checked what it was, but its a lot better.

>> Edited by JMorgan on Thursday 9th May 11:16

>> Edited by JMorgan on Thursday 9th May 11:28

bennno

6,508 posts

226 months

Thursday 9th May 2002
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check the manual, is definately mobil 1

bennno

phil hill

433 posts

233 months

Thursday 9th May 2002
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I haven't any first hand experience but I have been told by a couple of good race engine builders that Mobil 1 does not have good thermal properties, so it doesn't pull heat away effectively. Cooling is a big issue here as temperature effects viscosity (sp?) and hence oil pressure. My local Lotus speciallist tried Mobil 1 and has now switched to Castrol RS because of thermal problems in Esprit Turbo's and Excels.

Can't comment on the AJP engines, but the Rover V8 was not designed for super thin modern oils despite having hydraulic followers. Latest oils for Ford Zetec engine for example are around 0/35. This is way too thin for a Rover V8.

I've quoted this before, and make no appologies for quoting it again. This is an excert from an article writen by Keith Calver from the Minispares web site. Use this link for full article :
www.minispares.com/ArticleV.cfm?DisplayID=1005&SCatagory=ENGINE&DisplayType=Calver%27s%20Corner&CarType=MINI

quote :

Use good quality oil. Valvoline 20/50 Racing mineral oil is very good in Minis at a very reasonable price. Torco 20/50 mineral oil is exceptional, 5/50 synthetic better, 20/50 absolutely brilliant - but all a bit more expensive. Most established brand named multi-grade oils are OK. Torco’s whole range of oils are the best at heat transfer I’ve ever come across, Red Line a close second but they only do full synthetic racing oils so are relatively expensive. Mobil 1 was the first real fully synthetic oil, but I've always found it poor at carrying heat away from major components (like crank and cam). I've had the same reports from other users in various fields of motorsport used in a wide variety of engines. Simply going from Mobil 1 that I used for a couple of years, necessitating a very large oil cooler to be used, to Torco 5/50 I saw such a huge drop in oil temperature I could run with NO cooler, and still had 10 degrees better temperature. And that was in a 1430cc, 150bhp, LSD equipped tarmac racer!

quote :

I'm still running standard GTX in my V8, have not had oil pressure problems or cooling problems for that matter, which MGB V8's are prone to. In the Mini I'm running Silkoline Pro4, which is actually a bike oil, Mini shares oil with the transmission, just like a bike so why not ?? I don't do a huge mileage so it gets changed about as frequently as a bike's oil as well........

What oil do RPI recommend, anyone know ??

richb

43,587 posts

241 months

Thursday 9th May 2002
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Sorry for the (one off) cross post but I guess some of you may not read all topics, anyway there is another thread running on the new Mobil 1 oil and I am still confused as to which is the better for my V8, UK 15W50 or French 5W50?

Here is what I posted there...

Come on then chaps help me out a bit. I have read a few web sites and stuff and still can't work out what is best... So in the UK Mobil 1 is a 15w50 whereas I buy the French 5W50 stuff when I'm going through the tunnel. So does this mean that both oils have the same viscosity at high temp (measured at 100degC from what I can make out) and that the 5W is thicker at low temp? And… if so why is this better? Because I'd have thought the oil gets warm pretty quickly? Confused & Confuddled Rich...


shpub

8,507 posts

229 months

Thursday 9th May 2002
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The best oil is a virgin one pressed from sun kissed Olive trees found on the sea lapped shores just off Morecombe bay... The End of the Pier blend is the best

Mobil 1 in the UK is available in 0W40 and Motorosport 15W50. The French version is the 5w50 and half the price.

All are good for your TVR. Oil consumption can be a bit high with the 0W40 and will be reduced with either the 5w50 or the 15W stuff. Key points are keep it topped up and changed regularly.

All these points about the Rover V8 engine being a 50 year old design and needing mineral oil and they don't make cars like the old Codger-Bealey and they lost the plot when they got rid of coach springs are missing the point that different engines need different oils for different reasons. I am not sure that a 3.5 litre 135 bhp V8 has the same oil requirements or stress as a 400 bhp 5.2 competition engine so I don't subscribe to any one oil being the best. It will vary. For example...

My Griff runs on French Mobil 1. My 520 runs on Kendals 20W50 mineral. The Kendals is used cos John Eales who built the engine said it is the best for my engine. Why? says I. Because it absorbs the unburnt fuel that washes the bores and maintains the protection. Don't forget to change it every track day and after every three sprints! So not quite the stuff to use in an everyday engine, especailly one that gets as hot as the TVR V8. Synthetics are better at resisting that type of heat. It can get sludgey quite quickly - the catch tank fills quite quickly as well - but because it is changed so often that doesn't happen, but I can't see how it could last 6000 miles between services though. Or to be exact on my 520 engine I can't.

So morale of this story is to use some oil. Check it regularly, don't overrev it when cold and change it frequently.

Steve





richb

43,587 posts

241 months

Thursday 9th May 2002
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quote:

The best oil is a virgin one pressed from sun kissed Olive trees
I know, don't tell me... and squeezed between the thighs of a Cuban beauty! Or is that cigars? You can tell I don't smoke the things, the cigars that is...

quote:
My Griff runs on French Mobil 1.
In which case I'll stop worrying about it 'cos I picked a few gallons (oops 4.55 Litres') of the stuff last weekend. Rich...

JSG

Original Poster:

2,238 posts

240 months

Thursday 9th May 2002
quotequote all
quote:

Mobil 1 in the UK is available in 0W40 and Motorosport 15W50. The French version is the 5w50 and half the price.

All are good for your TVR. Oil consumption can be a bit high with the 0W40 and will be reduced with either the 5w50 or the 15W stuff. Key points are keep it topped up and changed regularly.


Steve,

Thanks. A couple more questions, one of which may be in the S Bible (but both my copies are at home at the mo) and one which isn't cos I looked before.

1, How often do you recommend changing the oil for normal road use (some fast )? I do under 6k miles a year due to constraints with two seats. Is every annual service ok, or should I look at six monthly?

2, Is it best to check the level with the engine hot or cold? Do you know the amount of oil between 'fill and empty' on the dipstick? I can't find that anywhere. I always check and top up weekly but it's a bit trial and error.

Cheers,
JSG.

PS - The S3 never needed a drop between changes.

phil hill

433 posts

233 months

Friday 10th May 2002
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quote:

All these points about the Rover V8 engine being a 50 year old design and needing mineral oil and they don't make cars like the old Codger-Bealey and they lost the plot when they got rid of coach springs are missing the point that different engines need different oils for different reasons. I am not sure that a 3.5 litre 135 bhp V8 has the same oil requirements or stress as a 400 bhp 5.2 competition engine so I don't subscribe to any one oil being the best. It will vary. For example...


Ooooooo, get you ! Hang on, me handbag's here some place

Rover V8 is a 50 year old design, but I never said it needed mineral oil, mine happens to run it at the moment, and did do previous to my ownership. It wasn't rebuilt for 120k, and all it needed then was a cam and followers. Rover V8 does not take kindly to being left alone for long periods of time because the cam dries out, surface rusts and then wears out at a fantastic rate. MGB V8 was originally rated at 137bhp/198lbft on an 8.1 compression so no, it's not exactly a ball of fire.

As I'm not yet 30 or in the MG owners club I don't understand the the "codger-bailey" comments.........

However, oil requirements are the same for any engine, a 4 cylinder, V8 or the gas turbines I work with. To lubricate and disipate heat. Stress ?? Well the higher tuned engine will put greater stress on the all the components, oil included, by virtue of heat.

quote:

So morale of this story is to use some oil. Check it regularly, don't overrev it when cold and change it frequently.


Amen to that !!

shpub

8,507 posts

229 months

Friday 10th May 2002
quotequote all
Withdraw that handbag... I wasn't getting at anyone in particular. I just get fed up with the it's a 50 year old engine so use a 50 year old oil. You know what I mean.

I cited the example where I use different oils in my V8s to cope with different problems and different tyes of driving and as a result they have different maintainance/change requirements and that the oil choice/recommendation can and should vary.

There is no one answer to this except check it, change it and use the engine.

The point about the cam is very interesting as this is common with a lot of TVRs. TVRs often don't do high mileage so I am wondering if this could be the cause rather than the normal Mobil 1 is too thin. There are many cars out there that use this and don't get cam wear problems. Dried out camshafts and rust however I can believe.

Steve

shpub

8,507 posts

229 months

Friday 10th May 2002
quotequote all
quote:


1, How often do you recommend changing the oil for normal road use (some fast )? I do under 6k miles a year due to constraints with two seats. Is every annual service ok, or should I look at six monthly?


Normal Service intevals or when the oil looks a bit yucky. If in doubt change it.
quote:

2, Is it best to check the level with the engine hot or cold? Do you know the amount of oil between 'fill and empty' on the dipstick? I can't find that anywhere. I always check and top up weekly but it's a bit trial and error.



Coldish as you need to wait until the oil has flowed back to get an accurate reading. Easy to overfill if you don't. As for the difference... depends but typically a litre but don't hold me to that it could be wildly out!

phil hill

433 posts

233 months

Friday 10th May 2002
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quote:

Withdraw that handbag... I wasn't getting at anyone in particular. I just get fed up with the it's a 50 year old engine so use a 50 year old oil. You know what I mean.


No worries Steve, just being the devil's advocate, I do know what you mean . On vintage cars we use a monograde, non-detergent oil 'cos that's what it was designed for, but I wouldn't recommend it in a TVR !!

On a race spec engine we use a race spec oil, changing it about 3000 road miles, less if vehicle is actually used in competion or track days. The cost ?? I like to think of engine oil as the vehicle's blood, so I really don't care what it costs for a quality product.

For an unmodified road car just about any *quality* oil is ok. There's the rub though, there's a certain amount of brand loyalty to break with dealers and owners for that matter. All oils have strengths and weaknesses inherent in the formulation, Mobil 1 *had* a poor reputation for heat transfer, but I've not used either the old or new formulations so I can't comment.

On the cam wear front, I've heard "lay-up" periods do cause a problem with cam wear. As if you needed any more excuse to use the damn thing.......

>> Edited by phil hill on Friday 10th May 14:12

simpo one

72,540 posts

222 months

Tuesday 25th June 2002
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Remember that Mobil One sponsor the Tuscan Challenge (I think) - which might explain why TVR always endorse it despite all common sense screaming otherwise.... I'm having Mobil Motorsport 15W50 this time.

timshap

155 posts

241 months

Friday 5th July 2002
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Have just ordered 25 litres of Millers competition fully synthetic 10/60 at 3.70 per lltr
Any views on this grade for 500 Chimp???

shpub

8,507 posts

229 months

Friday 5th July 2002
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quote:

Have just ordered 25 litres of Millers competition fully synthetic 10/60 at 3.70 per lltr
Any views on this grade for 500 Chimp???




Bit too late considering you've ordered it...

Steve

2 Sheds

2,529 posts

241 months

Friday 5th July 2002
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Funny that most engine builders recommend basic mineral oil, I guess they are totally unbiased.

timshap

155 posts

241 months

Monday 8th July 2002
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Steve

I was asking for thoughts on 20/60 as I am not familiar with this grade.
I can always return it if ness...

Tim

shpub

8,507 posts

229 months

Monday 8th July 2002
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The grade is fine but anything with the word competition in it means to me it lasts for about 3 hours and needs replacing...

Can't really say much more than that. I use Miller's octane boost

Steve