solid lifters

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Discussion

Guillotine

Original Poster:

5,514 posts

221 months

Saturday 24th August 2002
quotequote all
does anyone have experience of solid lifters?

my griff 500 is tapping AGAIN after the following.
new...
lifters (x2 sets)
rods
rocker assemblies (x2)
oil pump pressure check & strip
oil pressure valve
oil change (several) now 15/50 from 0/40.
oil pressure test - ok.
blown out oilways and clean sump pick up.

about to take it to bits again and am considering solid lifters with adjustable rods.

will check for cam end float, but the sound is definately lifter. tapping from centre/front of block.

ps its definately NOT exhaust gasket

steve heath are you there?... anyone!

wedg1e

26,736 posts

222 months

Saturday 24th August 2002
quotequote all
You sure you haven't lost a cam lobe? The lifters can only compensate for so much...
Also, was the preload properly set up after each new set of lifters? Otherwise you'd have a problem from the word go.
Despite rebuilding my V8 earlier this year with its original cam, lifters and rocker gear, I still had to fit different preload shims to get the clearances correct.

Ian

shpub

8,507 posts

229 months

Saturday 24th August 2002
quotequote all
I agree with ian on this. Have you checked the cam shaft? Also have you checked you don't have a stone in the fan belt.

Steve

Guillotine

Original Poster:

5,514 posts

221 months

Saturday 24th August 2002
quotequote all
yes, pre loads were set each time
yes, cam was checked.
may take the cam out totally this time to ENSURE its ok but was checked insitu and no real wear was seen.

wierd (and expensive) huh!

i should say that all work has been carried out at penninsula and they've gone out of their way to be friendly/helpfull.

just looking for fresh ideas

is it worth fitting solid lifters?

2 Sheds

2,529 posts

241 months

Saturday 24th August 2002
quotequote all
Noise could be timing gear/ chain ? as you seem to have eliminated all the obvious things.
On solid lifters there is a very good cam available that runs with solid lifters Kent M404 i fitted one in my 5.0L tuscan 2 yrs ago, fantastic cam, stacks better than the regular 218 etc. I was talking to Richard @ Peninsula yesterday about them, i know he is more than impressed. need adjustment every 8-12,000 with road use.
Good luck, Tim

Guillotine

Original Poster:

5,514 posts

221 months

Saturday 24th August 2002
quotequote all
sounds good, thanks for the info

Guillotine

Original Poster:

5,514 posts

221 months

Sunday 25th August 2002
quotequote all
2sheds
was it used in a race or road car?
where were improvements?
idle?
mid range?
acceleration?
overall?
richard and i will be doing the work next week and i like the sound of this (he did mention it)so if its not too expensive...

adjustment every 6-10k is ok as it would fit in with normal servicing/use

firstly i just want it quiet, as its fine otherwise.

cheers
andy

>> Edited by Guillotine on Sunday 25th August 22:19

jmorgan

36,010 posts

241 months

Sunday 25th August 2002
quotequote all
Solid Lifters? I take it to mean non hydrolic? What are the benefits of this then? Not thinking of having it done though, just curious.
(just tall washers?)

danny hoffman

1,617 posts

219 months

Sunday 25th August 2002
quotequote all
Going back to the original problem, surely you should try and find the cause as something is obviously wrong. Just fitting solid lifters may help, but maybe you will go through all that hassle/expense and still be no further forward.

I am sure these have been already checked but are your oil ways clean (I would try running up the oil pump while it is bits and making sure you are getting plenty of oil in the required places), are you 100% sue there isn't a damage/roughness where the lifters fit?

Also one other point, you say you have changed the lifters twice - I thought you weren't supposed to change them without changing the camshaft?

Danny

Guillotine

Original Poster:

5,514 posts

221 months

Sunday 25th August 2002
quotequote all
jmorgan.
yeah, solid lifters are just that. no hydraulic mechanism - back to the old system of adjusting the tappets manually (adjustment in new rods so rockers remain)
danny,
yeah, i'd agree with you. i'd rather sort the problem, but its getting expensive and not a little annoying!
i'd like to go in and be sure the problem will be sorted this time. hence the solids.
atleast if i go that route the problem will be sorted! and if i end up with a better cam/performance, then i'll get something back for the money as well!!

here's hoping! don't know how much the cam is yet!

andy


>> Edited by Guillotine on Sunday 25th August 16:16

philshort

8,293 posts

234 months

Sunday 25th August 2002
quotequote all
Had the happen twice on my 500 Chim, fortunately covered by extended warranty. The tapping sounds pretty terminal. First set of lifters went, car went in, had another set fitted. It lasted a day and the new set went. The car went back to TVR Power in Coventry for diagnosis, and it turned out the oil pickup pipe in the sump was loose. Under acceleration it was sucking air and losing pressure, but at a steady speed it was fine. Like when you were checking the oil pressure guage for example! Obviously the fault didn't appear when the engine was run up in the workshop.

If you've had the pickup cleaned I'd be surprised if this was the problem - in my case the pipe had probably not been torqued up during original assembly. I had wondered if the cam should have been replaced, but was assured at the time that it was OK. Since it sounded like the lifters had about an inch of clearance from the racket it made (it was almost as rattly as the original Cerberas ) I was doubtful, but four years later it's still running.

Guillotine

Original Poster:

5,514 posts

221 months

Sunday 25th August 2002
quotequote all
phil,
oil pickup has been checked and no drop in pressure has been seen at any time
glad you got yours sorted!

other info in the saga.

the noise appears to have moved this time.
previously it was difficult to pinpoint just where the tapping was coming from ie top rattle or lower rattle.
hence the changing of upper assemblies (both sides)
this time,however, the noise seems quite clearly from the lifters and definately from the front.
so maybe a duff one went in this time.

on new lifters, rods, tappets the car sounded lovely.
drove to nurberg... 6 laps... back home and sounds like a diesel!!!!!

by the way, the cars is a 500hc pre serp '94 with 40k on it

cheers

shpub

8,507 posts

229 months

Monday 26th August 2002
quotequote all
quote:

Solid Lifters? I take it to mean non hydrolic? What are the benefits of this then? Not thinking of having it done though, just curious.
(just tall washers?)



Basically you can rev the engine higher. Waste of time if the power and torque is low down so usually reserved for competition engines and others where thepower is high up the band.

Steve

danny hoffman

1,617 posts

219 months

Monday 26th August 2002
quotequote all
Oil pick up pipes are known to suffer from cracks. Maybe they are invisible when cold and open slightly when hot. It is probably worth having yours re brazed while the engine is in bits.

Guillotine

Original Poster:

5,514 posts

221 months

Monday 26th August 2002
quotequote all
danny
will do. ta

paulu

200 posts

221 months

Tuesday 27th August 2002
quotequote all
How do you set the preloads on lifters?

Guillotine

Original Poster:

5,514 posts

221 months

Tuesday 27th August 2002
quotequote all
not sure yet, will be doing it on monday.
i think its a question of shimming the rocker pedestals to obtain the correct spring pressure, but not sure...
steve heath?

350matt

3,591 posts

236 months

Wednesday 28th August 2002
quotequote all
Regarding the preload setting on std hydraulics, you need two different 's of wire which you bend into a probe / small 'L' so that when the rocker gear, pushrod, lifter assembly is all assembled and torqued down (with lifter empty of oil) you can fit the wire between the underside of the retaining circlip in the lifter and the top of the lifter piston. I forget the size of this gap (its in the haynes manual/ preload shim kit) but the cam must be fully closed / on the heel and the you have an upper and lower limit for this gap. So you get wire of these two limits and as long as you can get the small one in and not the big one, the preload is set correctly.
I used a shim kit from 'Real Steel' about 5 quid and had to swap a few pushrods around to get mine right.


Matt

shpub

8,507 posts

229 months

Thursday 29th August 2002
quotequote all
That's right. If it isn't done... kiss goodbye to the engine. I have some interesting piccies of the damage that can be done if this is not carried out. Like damaged rocker arms, knackered cam.

Steve

2 Sheds

2,529 posts

241 months

Monday 2nd September 2002
quotequote all
quote:

2sheds
was it used in a race or road car?
where were improvements?
idle?
mid range?
acceleration?
overall?
richard and i will be doing the work next week and i like the sound of this (he did mention it)so if its not too expensive...

adjustment every 6-10k is ok as it would fit in with normal servicing/use

firstly i just want it quiet, as its fine otherwise.

cheers
andy

>> Edited by Guillotine on Sunday 25th August 22:19



Guillotine, I,ve been in Devon for the week so hence slow reply, The solid lifters were fitted to a road engine, The benefits with the 404 are everywhere from idle to top end, the lift is very high with an asymmetric profile, you cant use hydaulic with this cam , solid set ups offer more response and possibility for higher reving (if required)
You will be supprised !!!
Cheers Tim