Audi S6 engine failure

Audi S6 engine failure

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wave_watcher

Original Poster:

32 posts

3 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
No history of using oil, no abnormal engine noises before failure.
I'm taken for a fool because I'm female and don't know the right Qs to ask.....
Having wool pulled over my eyes.
When I was told the oil level was very, very, very low I asked if the warning light was faulty.
No sensible answer, so I'm still in the dark.

stevemcs

5,121 posts

54 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
It really shouldn't matter if your male, female or a unicorn, everyone should be treated the same, even if you don't understand. I'll take people through to the workshop, take pictures, videos anything but that's the benefit of not being a main dealer.

Fuel injectors we would always send off, let a specialist who deals with them day to day test and advise. I'm just hoping that its nothing timing related, I would have thought if they would have had the engine out they would have checked it.

320d is all you need

1,202 posts

4 months

Thursday 29th October 2020
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I can tell you now

- You will never have all fuel injectors fail naturally at the same time , even if with wrong fuel usually once ran on correct fuel they are OK
- Spark plugs cannot be "damaged" without extensive engine damage - so these should not have been changed IMO. I would query the costs of this and the labour.

So I would be asking

1) what diagnostics were carried out to determine that all fuel injectors were faulty?
2) can they prove that the fuel injectors were faulty? Were they put on a ASNU test rig?
3) what was the data from the above?
4) were they attempted to be cleaned (ASNU can do this).

5) What damage caused all spark plugs to be changed
6) where are the old plugs, you want these irrespective of whether the garage says you can have them or not



stevieturbo

15,157 posts

208 months

Thursday 29th October 2020
quotequote all
320d is all you need said:
I can tell you now

- You will never have all fuel injectors fail naturally at the same time , even if with wrong fuel usually once ran on correct fuel they are OK
- Spark plugs cannot be "damaged" without extensive engine damage - so these should not have been changed IMO. I would query the costs of this and the labour.

So I would be asking

1) what diagnostics were carried out to determine that all fuel injectors were faulty?
2) can they prove that the fuel injectors were faulty? Were they put on a ASNU test rig?
3) what was the data from the above?
4) were they attempted to be cleaned (ASNU can do this).

5) What damage caused all spark plugs to be changed
6) where are the old plugs, you want these irrespective of whether the garage says you can have them or not
All items removed from the vehicle are the property of the owner and should be returned to them, whether for them to throw away, or for a proper inspection.
When the engine is out, it can make sense to change the plugs regardless as no doubt it is an awkward job on the car, although yes, it would be good to get a visual on them too.

320d is all you need

1,202 posts

4 months

Thursday 29th October 2020
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
All items removed from the vehicle are the property of the owner and should be returned to them, whether for them to throw away, or for a proper inspection.
When the engine is out, it can make sense to change the plugs regardless as no doubt it is an awkward job on the car, although yes, it would be good to get a visual on them too.
The OP said the spark plugs were changed only 6 or 8k ago?

I believe the spark plug interval on these engines is 40k.

wave_watcher

Original Poster:

32 posts

3 months

Thursday 29th October 2020
quotequote all
Hi again, in anticipation of being told the car is ready to collect, I wanted to check the 'dreaded' turbo oil screen had been checked and replaced. I mentioned this part to the local independent Audi garage who are trying to help advise me too, but they didn't know the part as that name. Can anyone tell me the technical name for the screen if it has one? Thnx

stevieturbo

15,157 posts

208 months

Thursday 29th October 2020
quotequote all
youtube to the rescue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QqRPCeIvAA

The strange thing is....such gauzes and screens are quite common in a lot of engines....as are failures.

Makes you wonder why manufacturers choose to do it...and do it badly.

DSLiverpool

12,484 posts

163 months

Thursday 29th October 2020
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Well .........

wave_watcher

Original Poster:

32 posts

3 months

Sunday 1st November 2020
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DAY 37 S6 BREAKDOWN:
Well, an update. On Tuesday I had been told they were hoping to fire it up on Thursday. By 3:30pm on Friday I had heard nothing. So I rang them, but everyone was too busy. They would call back. I waited until 5pm, no call back, so I decided to pay a visit. The car is still in pieces on the workshop floor. We are now awaiting some bolts. On a happier note, I did get a free cup of tea AND a new battery in the spare key-fob as I remembered the battery was dead. I was shown one of the turbos which had been removed. The impeller was loose but undamaged. Maybe it just needs tightening up? I asked if the oil screen(s) had been replaced and was told yes it/they had. So now I'm wondering if all the bits will ever fit back into the engine, and then of course there's the uncertainty of whether the engine will run. At least the dealership are offering a 2 year warranty on the new parts, all the fuel injectors and both turbos being the main ones.
Moral of the story, never take an 'out of warranty' car to the main dealer. I am a fool.

Skyrocket21

66 posts

3 months

Sunday 1st November 2020
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When they said the impeller was loose, what did they show you? An impeller on a turbo will move around slightly (side to side) when not in use, because it becomes taut with oil pressure. The fact it's spinning at 150k rpm plus when in use, you'd have a very marked up inlet housing if it was running loose if not a very broken turbo. End float movement is possible, especially if there was any oil starvation, or from wear and tear etc.

wave_watcher

Original Poster:

32 posts

3 months

Sunday 1st November 2020
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Hi - I’d say the impeller had a max of 2mm lateral movement on it when I held the centre part and moved it. Hope that makes sense.

nsa

1,546 posts

189 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
Google "Audi turbo oil screen problem" and see if the symptoms matched the ones you experienced. On the balance of probabilities I will bet that changing the turbo and oil screen fixes the problem, and that a failed oil screen was the culprit. I am going to take a punt that the garage misdiagnosed it at the first go, hence why they are covering the labour and parts on the second try.

£5k sounds about right to have it fixed, you've just been messed around on the way there. I know zip-all about Audis and have seen precisely one Rich Rebuilds video about the oil screen problem. If I'm right, your dealer is a disgrace. Let's see.

wave_watcher

Original Poster:

32 posts

3 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
Thanks for that last post. Can you share a link to the video where the symptoms are discussed/shown? (I’ve watched a few and could only see how to change the oil screen). Also I can see your line of thought regarding dealers goodwill gesture. I guess if I end up with a fixed car at the right price I will feel a bit happier.

nsa

1,546 posts

189 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all


It doesn't discuss the symptoms because he changed the oil screen as a preventative measure.

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-s8-d4-platform...

"Mine just blew last Saturday. Was driving to Grand Rapids and once I pulled off the highway my car just completely shut down. Couldn’t move the steering wheel, brake pedal was locked up, couldn’t get it in any other gear besides park and engine wouldn’t start back up. There wasn’t any shaking, or any warning signs before this happened. Still at the dealership."


stevieturbo

15,157 posts

208 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
Still no outcome from the injector test ?

Lots of parts getting changed here...with not so much evidence to support it. There will always be some lateral movement on a journal bearing turbo, but largely if it isnt touching the volute housing, it's probably ok ( assuming there aren't some other glaringly obvious symptoms too )

nsa

1,546 posts

189 months

Thursday 5th November 2020
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Any news?

wave_watcher

Original Poster:

32 posts

3 months

Thursday 5th November 2020
quotequote all
Car is still at the dealership, but I visited on Tuesday and they said the engine was back in the car and they’d had it running ok. Due to be extensively tested (inc on road). They hoped to release it tomorrow (Friday) if they are happy with the performance. Not sure how much I’ll be asked to cough up.

nsa

1,546 posts

189 months

Thursday 5th November 2020
quotequote all
The oil screen is the number one failure of the 4.0 turbo engine and for them not to catch it first time is negligent. Ask them for the book time on replacing the turbo and screen and the parts cost. I don't know why you need to pay for the other work and parts at all because it was completely unnecessary.


wave_watcher

Original Poster:

32 posts

3 months

Thursday 5th November 2020
quotequote all
Thanks - I’ll do as you suggest.

KungFuPanda

3,768 posts

131 months

Thursday 5th November 2020
quotequote all
nsa said:
The oil screen is the number one failure of the 4.0 turbo engine and for them not to catch it first time is negligent. Ask them for the book time on replacing the turbo and screen and the parts cost. I don't know why you need to pay for the other work and parts at all because it was completely unnecessary.
There's no evidence that it's the oil screen on this occasion though.