Vauxhall insignia won't boost properly and smokes after map
Discussion
As I've gotten older and experienced many different cars I've come to the conclusion that's it's much easier and quite often cheaper in the long run to buy a car that has the power/performance you want as standard. OP, if you want a fast, relatively economical car that's comfy with a big boot and can tow for under 3k I'd be looking for an e90 330d.
njw1 said:
As I've gotten older and experienced many different cars I've come to the conclusion that's it's much easier and quite often cheaper in the long run to buy a car that has the power/performance you want as standard. OP, if you want a fast, relatively economical car that's comfy with a big boot and can tow for under 3k I'd be looking for an e90 330d.
Agreed but some won’t be told, cheap/reliable/powerful, pick any two, the OP seems desperate to get 200bhp from a diesel Insignia, my 160bhp one never felt lacking for speed but was an unreliable piece of junk and completely standard, any aftermarket map is not going to be optimal and will highlight many of the weak points of the engine.Mine also didn’t smoke at all so I’m not sure the OP’s car is at all well, ‘the usual diesel smoke’ shouldn’t be present on any modern diesel unless it’s broken or has been meddled with.
The car needs putting back to a standard map by a reputable company and then diagnosing for faults, putting cheap generic maps that have been tweaked is not a good idea, once fixed sell it and buy a faster standard car to begin with than trying to tune a generic family car that was never designed to output “215bhp” in 138bhp form.
Edited by Jazoli on Thursday 12th December 16:44
To address some posts, it's been dynod at 201bhp but made max at 3500rpm due to torque dropping off at 410nm which is the point it dumps a ton of smoke.
The previous map was nowhere near maxed...not even close, I'd guesstimate 160bhp at a push.
I get you're saying there's no point but in 40k miles this car owes me 2 sets of tyres, 1 set of brakes, a control arm bush and a set of glow plugs.
Where it currently sits is pushing 200bhp, 0 road tax and returns 50+mpg daily with booting it and all for under £3k.
Anyway, back to the issue at hand... afrs look good for the most part, air intake temps are beautifully low but as I said, hits 3500 and torque plateus and stops making power. I'm down the route of injectors at this point which would seem to make more sense due to the extra fuel it's demanding which it wasn't previously.
Yes it's still reliable...no it isn't dying it's just smoking at 3500rpm+ when I boot it.
Who suggested a 330d as a 200bhp cheap car under 3k... the tax alone is £335 more about years than I pay. Considerably higher repair bills and far less mpg.
In reality, once I solve the smoke issue I'm looking at 210bhp 450nm torque, £0 road tax and 50+mpg.
Not sure why I need to justify my choice on here... its actually quite enjoyable tuning a s
t family car.
The previous map was nowhere near maxed...not even close, I'd guesstimate 160bhp at a push.
I get you're saying there's no point but in 40k miles this car owes me 2 sets of tyres, 1 set of brakes, a control arm bush and a set of glow plugs.
Where it currently sits is pushing 200bhp, 0 road tax and returns 50+mpg daily with booting it and all for under £3k.
Anyway, back to the issue at hand... afrs look good for the most part, air intake temps are beautifully low but as I said, hits 3500 and torque plateus and stops making power. I'm down the route of injectors at this point which would seem to make more sense due to the extra fuel it's demanding which it wasn't previously.
Yes it's still reliable...no it isn't dying it's just smoking at 3500rpm+ when I boot it.
Who suggested a 330d as a 200bhp cheap car under 3k... the tax alone is £335 more about years than I pay. Considerably higher repair bills and far less mpg.
In reality, once I solve the smoke issue I'm looking at 210bhp 450nm torque, £0 road tax and 50+mpg.
Not sure why I need to justify my choice on here... its actually quite enjoyable tuning a s
t family car. Roastyduck said:
I'm down the route of injectors at this point which would seem to make more sense due to the extra fuel it's demanding which it wasn't previously.
You think the injectors are flow-limited? How does that cause black smoke? I'd have thought that over-fuelling was the most likely cause, although it could still be due to an internal oil leak or a shagged engine.GreenV8S said:
You think the injectors are flow-limited? How does that cause black smoke? I'd have thought that over-fuelling was the most likely cause, although it could still be due to an internal oil leak or a shagged engine.
No id say its likely they work fine at lower fuel but now it's been tuned for more fuel it's likely it's just pissing fuel out rather than spraying.I've had no excess oil usage i got out not much different to what I've put in, I'd be hard pushed to say engine related due to how it was perfectly fine before the second map.
GreenV8S said:
Roastyduck said:
I'm down the route of injectors at this point which would seem to make more sense due to the extra fuel it's demanding which it wasn't previously.
You think the injectors are flow-limited? How does that cause black smoke? I'd have thought that over-fuelling was the most likely cause, although it could still be due to an internal oil leak or a shagged engine.Black smoke is OVER-FUELLING, the last thing it needs is even bigger injectors.
If this idea of yours comes from your "mapper" you REALLY need to take it somewhere who actually knows & understands what they are doing.
Roastyduck said:
To address some posts, it's been dynod at 201bhp but made max at 3500rpm due to torque dropping off at 410nm which is the point it dumps a ton of smoke.
It is dumping black smoke because at that point it is being over-fuelled to try to get it to keep producing power when it can't.Roastyduck said:
The previous map was nowhere near maxed...not even close, I'd guesstimate 160bhp at a push.
You keep quoting power, which is irrelevant in a diesel, it is the torque that you need to be looking at.Roastyduck said:
Anyway, back to the issue at hand... afrs look good for the most part, air intake temps are beautifully low but as I said, hits 3500 and torque plateus and stops making power. I'm down the route of injectors at this point which would seem to make more sense due to the extra fuel it's demanding which it wasn't previously.
"it hits 3500, the torque plateaus & it stops making power" Stop switching between the 2, they are completely different & need to be treated separately, what is the torque doing?Roastyduck said:
Not sure why I need to justify my choice on here... its actually quite enjoyable tuning a st family car.
It is even more enjoyable making progress while doing so, rather than going backwards.t family car. Roastyduck said:
now it's been tuned for more fuel it's likely it's just pissing fuel out rather than spraying.
I don't think that's at all likely.Roastyduck said:
I've had no excess oil usage i got out not much different to what I've put in,
If it was only burning oil under peak power conditions then the total consumption could be negligible - a little oil goes a long way.Roastyduck said:
I'd be hard pushed to say engine related due to how it was perfectly fine before the second map.
I'm not saying engine damage is particularly likely from what you've said, but it's entirely possible that you've pinched a ring or scored a bore due to local overheating while running at more boost than the engine was designed for - this could happen quite quickly and is exactly the sort of problem you might expect if an engine is tuned beyond its safe limits. I'm very confident your engine has been tuned beyond its safe limits given the power gains you're describing.E-bmw said:
^^^^ Wot 'e said.
Black smoke is OVER-FUELLING, the last thing it needs is even bigger injectors.
If this idea of yours comes from your "mapper" you REALLY need to take it somewhere who actually knows & understands what they are doing.
Not bigger injectors no, should have specified, he suggested I look at them and make sure they aren't just leaking fuel out at higher rpm rather than spraying. Black smoke is OVER-FUELLING, the last thing it needs is even bigger injectors.
If this idea of yours comes from your "mapper" you REALLY need to take it somewhere who actually knows & understands what they are doing.
For reference hes hand tuned many of these and all have gained great numbers with no ill affects. His personal has 256bhp admittedly on a hybrid turbo. Ive seen 215bhp and 460nm torque from his maps on others.
Roastyduck said:
E-bmw said:
^^^^ Wot 'e said.
Black smoke is OVER-FUELLING, the last thing it needs is even bigger injectors.
If this idea of yours comes from your "mapper" you REALLY need to take it somewhere who actually knows & understands what they are doing.
Not bigger injectors no, should have specified, he suggested I look at them and make sure they aren't just leaking fuel out at higher rpm rather than spraying. Black smoke is OVER-FUELLING, the last thing it needs is even bigger injectors.
If this idea of yours comes from your "mapper" you REALLY need to take it somewhere who actually knows & understands what they are doing.
Black smoke from a diesel is OVER-FUELLING.
Over-fuelling is not the same as incomplete combustion.
Incomplete combustion in a diesel will give white "smoke" that smells of diesel.
It smells of diesel because it hasn't been combusted.
Incorrect spray pattern/leakage etc in a diesel injector is much more likely to cause incomplete combustion than over-fuelling unless too much fuel is being delivered, which goes back to over-fuelling.
Roastyduck said:
Not bigger injectors no, should have specified, he suggested I look at them and make sure they aren't just leaking fuel out at higher rpm rather than spraying.
For reference hes hand tuned many of these and all have gained great numbers with no ill affects. His personal has 256bhp admittedly on a hybrid turbo. Ive seen 215bhp and 460nm torque from his maps on others.
The tuner that messed your car's map up says he's really good at tuning and the problem must be with your car? For reference hes hand tuned many of these and all have gained great numbers with no ill affects. His personal has 256bhp admittedly on a hybrid turbo. Ive seen 215bhp and 460nm torque from his maps on others.
Well, I'm convinced!
Roastyduck said:
For reference hes hand tuned many of these and all have gained great numbers with no ill affects. His personal has 256bhp admittedly on a hybrid turbo. Ive seen 215bhp and 460nm torque from his maps on others.
No ill effects? 215bhp is an increase of over 50% over the original 140bhp, How do the brakes, suspension, driveshafts, gearbox, clutch, flywheel, engine mounts, etc, cope with that? I'd bet a very large sum of money that GM haven't built a 50% tolerance into those components... njw1 said:
No ill effects? 215bhp is an increase of over 50% over the original 140bhp, How do the brakes, suspension, driveshafts, gearbox, clutch, flywheel, engine mounts, etc, cope with that? I'd bet a very large sum of money that GM haven't built a 50% tolerance into those components...
In fairness, 215bhp isn't hardly earth shattering, and I'd expect the general parts bin GM/Vauxhall stuff to handle it just fine.njw1 said:
Roastyduck said:
For reference hes hand tuned many of these and all have gained great numbers with no ill affects. His personal has 256bhp admittedly on a hybrid turbo. Ive seen 215bhp and 460nm torque from his maps on others.
No ill effects? 215bhp is an increase of over 50% over the original 140bhp, How do the brakes, suspension, driveshafts, gearbox, clutch, flywheel, engine mounts, etc, cope with that? I'd bet a very large sum of money that GM haven't built a 50% tolerance into those components... Richard-D said:
Roastyduck said:
Not bigger injectors no, should have specified, he suggested I look at them and make sure they aren't just leaking fuel out at higher rpm rather than spraying.
For reference hes hand tuned many of these and all have gained great numbers with no ill affects. His personal has 256bhp admittedly on a hybrid turbo. Ive seen 215bhp and 460nm torque from his maps on others.
The tuner that messed your car's map up says he's really good at tuning and the problem must be with your car? For reference hes hand tuned many of these and all have gained great numbers with no ill affects. His personal has 256bhp admittedly on a hybrid turbo. Ive seen 215bhp and 460nm torque from his maps on others.
Well, I'm convinced!
E-bmw said:
Roastyduck said:
E-bmw said:
^^^^ Wot 'e said.
Black smoke is OVER-FUELLING, the last thing it needs is even bigger injectors.
If this idea of yours comes from your "mapper" you REALLY need to take it somewhere who actually knows & understands what they are doing.
Not bigger injectors no, should have specified, he suggested I look at them and make sure they aren't just leaking fuel out at higher rpm rather than spraying. Black smoke is OVER-FUELLING, the last thing it needs is even bigger injectors.
If this idea of yours comes from your "mapper" you REALLY need to take it somewhere who actually knows & understands what they are doing.
Black smoke from a diesel is OVER-FUELLING.
Over-fuelling is not the same as incomplete combustion.
Incomplete combustion in a diesel will give white "smoke" that smells of diesel.
It smells of diesel because it hasn't been combusted.
Incorrect spray pattern/leakage etc in a diesel injector is much more likely to cause incomplete combustion than over-fuelling unless too much fuel is being delivered, which goes back to over-fuelling.
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