DB9 Ignition coil packs, 2 or 3 Pin??

DB9 Ignition coil packs, 2 or 3 Pin??

Author
Discussion

randyb

16 posts

56 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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Fullmel said:
If it's 3 pin coils there will be earthing wires on the back of the cylinder heads, just behind the dipstick.
When I talked to an AM dealer, they told me the grounding wire is only there for 2 pin coils, so can do you have something to verify this?

Fullmel

136 posts

122 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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The two pin coil has only two pins , one pin has a 12v feed from the engine fuse box and the other pin is the switching wire from the engine ecu

The three pin coil has the same but the third pin houses a dedicated earth wire that is bolted to the rear of the cylinder heads just above the exhaust manifolds.

If the car hasn't got these dedicated earths then it's the 2 pin type.


3200gt

2,727 posts

181 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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If that's correct, then this would work wouldn't it?
3200gt said:
Just musing. The difference between 2 and 3 pin I believe is 3 pin are earthed? what's to stopped you using a 3 pin in you car and running an earth to each.
(PS I've no idea if that would work, usual disclaimers apply!)

paulrog1

Original Poster:

546 posts

98 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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The biggest problem would be the 2 pin plugs on the wiring harness would not fit onto 3-pin ignition coils, you would have to fit 3-pin plugs, then connect 12 earth cables.

This would stop most people fitting 3 pin coils to a 2-pin coil car IMO.

But thanks for the idea, I always like to hear "out of the box" ideas, these are sometimes the best.

paulrog1

Original Poster:

546 posts

98 months

Friday 5th August 2016
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Update -

For anyone who is doing this job I have some further info.

The ignition coil packs from eurocar parts are identical to the 2-pin DB9 ones (Thanks Mcgurk for sending me a used coil) they are from a 2002 Jag S-type 3.0L, all you need to do is to reuse the rubber boot & spring, link -

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Jaguar_S+Type_3....

They retail for £27 but almost every week they have a 30% off sale so I got all my 12 coils for £240.

The PCV valves, thanks to Steve from the Aston Martin DB9 1936 blog gave me a link to Amazon (US) for 2 sets, they are Motorcraft Ford parts EV-152D, link -

https://www.amazon.com/Motorcraft-EV152D-Positive-...

The total cost for them are £27 including shipping and taxes.

So my total parts spend for this job is -

12 NGK sparkplugs - £50
Genuine AM inlet manifold gaskets - £200
12 Ignition coil packs £240
2 Genuine AM Throttle body rubber O-rings £6.50
Complete set of O-rings for the fuel injectors £40 (from Mr injector uk)
2 sets of PCV Valves (Motorcraft Ford) £28.

Total is £564.50, I'm going to do this job next month, If all these parts were brought from AM they would cost £1150 so roughly a saving of £600.




Edited by paulrog1 on Friday 5th August 08:35

Ken Figenus

4,823 posts

74 months

Monday 8th August 2016
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RESULT! Keep us posted on the job and if fat fingers can get at the rear ones without turning the air blue! And HAAS Automation is the same as the OE 2 pin coil?



Edited by Ken Figenus on Monday 8th August 17:51

paulrog1

Original Poster:

546 posts

98 months

Monday 15th August 2016
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A quick update, anyone who's after cheap fuel injector seals for a DB9 buy 3 packs of these -

http://mrinjectoruk.co.uk/Fuel-injector-service-ki...

I've been assured these seals are the same, all in £30, the AM seals are around £75 delivered so saving of £45.


TGearDavid

7 posts

120 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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Hi Paul,

"The ignition coil packs from eurocar parts are identical to the 2-pin DB9 ones "

How sure are you that these are the same ? I read that you've checked visually by comparing online with the 4G43-12A366-AA AM part but couldn't the Ohm'age be different between them ?

Also you refer to the rubber boot and spring needing swapping, would you mind elaborating on which bit this is please ? I've not actually physically seen one (only the pics on the web) and they all look plastic to me.

Thanks for your efforts with this task and for documenting it - I too am about to embark on the 12 x coil change and don't like being ripped off at £64+vat for a part that possibly/maybe/hopefully your research has shown can be done with a £22 part.

Cheers

David

paulrog1

Original Poster:

546 posts

98 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
quotequote all
TGearDavid said:
Hi Paul,

"The ignition coil packs from eurocar parts are identical to the 2-pin DB9 ones "

How sure are you that these are the same ? I read that you've checked visually by comparing online with the 4G43-12A366-AA AM part but couldn't the Ohm'age be different between them ?

Also you refer to the rubber boot and spring needing swapping, would you mind elaborating on which bit this is please ? I've not actually physically seen one (only the pics on the web) and they all look plastic to me.

Thanks for your efforts with this task and for documenting it - I too am about to embark on the 12 x coil change and don't like being ripped off at £64+vat for a part that possibly/maybe/hopefully your research has shown can be done with a £22 part.

Cheers

David
Hi David,

I'm a couple of weeks off doing the ignition coil replacement job so at the moment this is what I know -

The 2-pin coils from eurocar parts look identical to the 2-pin AM coils (McGurk sent me an AM old coil) all you need to do is reuse your old rubber boot and spring, the rubber boot is where the sparkplug goes and the spring connects from the coil to the sparkplug.
I have not measured the resistance of the coils as I don't have a healthy AM coil to base my measurement, but what I've found out is -
The forum member in the US on the 6 speed online forum, randyb, has fitted in his 2005 DB9 Delphi ignition coils which fit on a 2002 Lincoln LS 3.0 V6, the SAME engine goes in a Jaguar S-type (AJ-30) 3.0 V6, hence the coils from euro car parts.
The Delphi ignition coils which randyb has installed are part no - GN10379 they have a few equivalent OEM part numbers and C2S42751 is one, that number is the Jag coil in eurocar parts.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5735958...

I hope this helps, I will let you all know in a couple of weeks if all this is correct.


Edited by paulrog1 on Sunday 21st August 13:00

TGearDavid

7 posts

120 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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Hi Paul,

Sounds promising indeed......of course a little risky for the first install in that there's no way of truly knowing if they work until the inlet manifold is back on and you fire it up. At that point they work and everyone following this post is a happy bunny.......or they don't and the time and money to take everything off again (+ new inlet manifold) and replace with another set.

My money is on your solution tbh.....if you think about it the 12v is going to be the same regardless of whether it's a Jag, an AM or a mini. The spark plugs are standard that are fitted to dozens of manufacturers of vehicles. The combustion chamber is c. 500cc per cylinder which isn't an unusual size for a spark to combust air/fuel mixture so why wouldn't they work ??

Physical dimension of the plug & screw fitting is the only negative I can think of and you've already confirmed they're visible the same.

My DB9 is going in for a scheduled 10k service tomorrow and I now know there's a misfire on 8. The previous owner had plugs replaced at 27k but NOT the coils, it's only done 38k now and my first misfire was yesterday (hence my interest in this post). My warranty states that 'electrics - coil' are covered (inc. labour) so going to go for the angle of they replace 1 faulty coil and cover the labour and I'll pay for 11 route. Failing that I'm going to get the 10k service stamp from AM and put it to an independent for the full coil set (and plugs again, why not) at a cost of £1k with me supplying the coils using your solution.

I've read that AM should be able to strip down and rebuild in 5.5 hours btw - there's your challenge when you do yours.

Cheers

David


TGearDavid

7 posts

120 months

Friday 9th September 2016
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Hi Paul,

Any news/update on progress with these replacement coil packs ?

Cheers

David

paulrog1

Original Poster:

546 posts

98 months

Friday 9th September 2016
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Hi David,

Yes the job was completed this week, I had to get an OBDII reader to clear the fault codes as the engine ran like crap afterwards but now the engine runs great with no problems or fault codes.

Went out for a long drive today and the engine runs very smooth.

So the Jag S-type 3.0 2003 (or 2004) ignition 2-pin coils are the same you just need to reuse the rubber boot and spring, I installed the NGK ones instead of the HAAS coils as I thought they were manufactured better, (personal choice really).

The motorcraft PVC valves which I purchased from Amazon in the US are exactly the same as the AM ones.

Hope this helps

Paul.



Edited by paulrog1 on Friday 9th September 17:54

TGearDavid

7 posts

120 months

Sunday 11th September 2016
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Flippin awesome !!!! :-)


That's great news Paul - thanks for taking the time to do the research and post your findings.......and for being the first !

So, for certainty these are the correct 2 pins, currently £30 each http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Jaguar_S+Type_3....


If you'd disconnected the battery then you'll probably also find that the ECU needs to re-learn the misfire calculations too - it's documented somewhere but involves a warm car, no faults, 55mph+ decelerating down to 30mph (I think) - with no gas - then doing it all over again a few times.


paulrog1

Original Poster:

546 posts

98 months

Sunday 11th September 2016
quotequote all
Hi, yes those are the one's. If you use VIP30 today you'll get 30% off.

Yes you will need to do the rundwn procedure as the battery will need to be disconnected, you will also need to do the windows and seats.

Any problems send me a message.

Regards

Paul.

spmcevoy

16 posts

59 months

Thursday 31st August 2017
quotequote all
paulrog1 said:
So the Jag S-type 3.0 2003 (or 2004) ignition 2-pin coils are the same you just need to reuse the rubber boot and spring, I installed the NGK ones instead of the HAAS coils as I thought they were manufactured better, (personal choice really).
Edited by paulrog1 on Friday 9th September 17:54
Hi Paul,

I am pleased you found an alternate coil, but am interested to learn how you got the spring changed over. The boot just slips off I think, but I couldn't figure out how to remove the spring assembly (that had the metal core inside it).

Please share...

Thanks
Steve (a.k.a. aston1936)

Zuman

140 posts

70 months

Saturday 2nd September 2017
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Steve, I don't know if the 3-pin (which my 2006 has) are any different in construction, but the spring just pulls out of the plastic housing on mine.
-Mike

Gregor01

16 posts

40 months

Thursday 4th January 2018
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Thanks for all the good information smile However I readed on a post that it is not possible to move the old spring to the new one changing the Coil?

Gregor01

16 posts

40 months

Friday 5th January 2018
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What about these ones? Made in China, but only $10 each.
https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&Ind...

Ken Figenus

4,823 posts

74 months

Monday 8th January 2018
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Interesting $10 v £100! Is that the same brand and part as OE I wonder? Cant see much of a market for pattern parts here to make it worth anyone's time?

Astontony

33 posts

11 months

Wednesday 29th July
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Hi All
I am beginning to prepare for a major in the next 12 month as my my 10 db9 has just completed 40000, klm. at 50k I want to do new plugs and coil packs.
I have no known missfires as yet as all things run like silk and I had her on the OBD11 about 12 months ago to log any missfires and all was satisfactory.

My question is, plugs are not a drama but coil packs are quite costly. There is a company with Coil Packs labelled 8G43-12A366-AA which is the 3 pin coil for a db9. Has anyone used this companies product they are called Surefire. and do sell a lot of different brands for many marques and are more reasonably priced.
Can anyone offer an opinion or experience before I purchase them They are 600 GBP for 12.+VAT