Mr JWW & Aston Martin

[LTP]

Having read Tobias Moers' intention to make a version of DBX that would beat the Ursus round the 'Ring I guessed the Ursus would "win". I fast forwarded through the inane twaddle that preceded the finish to confirm if I was right (spoiler alert - I was) and then closed the video with a "so what" feeling.

Are potential Aston SUV buyers really interested in the results of a drag race? That's not a rhetorical question, by the way; I'm genuinely interested. Personally, if I was looking for an opinion from YouTube I'd be more interested in hearing what someone like Harry Metcalfe thought of them rather than a pair of shouty "influencers".

[anonymous-user]

LTP said:

Having read Tobias Moers' intention to make a version of DBX that would beat the Ursus round the 'Ring I guessed the Ursus would "win". I fast forwarded through the inane twaddle that preceded the finish to confirm if I was right (spoiler alert - I was) and then closed the video with a "so what" feeling.

Are potential Aston SUV buyers really interested in the results of a drag race? That's not a rhetorical question, by the way; I'm genuinely interested. Personally, if I was looking for an opinion from YouTube I'd be more interested in hearing what someone like Harry Metcalfe thought of them rather than a pair of shouty "influencers".

The short answer is that standing 1/4 mile data tells you much more about how strong a pair of lungs a car has, than a 0-60mph test, so in this case some would view it as the DBX being an embarrassment. As it currently stands, it's no contest when it comes to acceleration tests; the combination of an extra 100bhp and launch control, meaning any buffoon could mash the throttle and not spear the wall, mean the DBX is unlikely to be winning many races.

Does that matter? In a similar way to how Aston enthusiasts are more interested in looks than performance, the wider net that encompasses those looking at the luxury SUV segment, seem to be moving (or at least looking) away from the 'thug life' nature of the Urus, and towards the DBX. The simple reason being it offers something a bit more special (be that actual of perceived), and while the Urus might cover ground quickly, I'd regard it as a blunt force trauma kind of car. The irony is that the 'new money' customers aren't dissimilar to the Aston faithful, in that the DBX might not have the best performance stats, but it's special where it counts, relative to rivals. There's also a similar stigma with Urus ownership as there is if you own a new Aston.

With a new Vantage, you'll forever be told how ugly it is and how it's just an AMG GT with an Aston badge (which it isn't, but if you oversimplify it enough, it is). With the Urus, it's a non-identical twin to an RSQ8 and Porsche Cayenne Turbo, both of which are cheaper and quicker around a certain German public road / test track. So while the DBX faces no end of flak for being on a bespoke platform used nowhere else and wasn't it such a waste of R&D resource etc, it has in recent times won some followers because in the segment it sits in, it's different enough, and exclusive enough that for some, it's a car they're interested in.

In respect of that video, the comments are interesting - regardless of the performance deficit, the DBX has found favour with a decent chunk of people who'd take it over an Urus.

[LTP]

NFC 85 Vette said:

The short answer is that standing 1/4 mile data tells you much more about how strong a pair of lungs a car has, than a 0-60mph test, so in this case some would view it as the DBX being an embarrassment. As it currently stands, it's no contest when it comes to acceleration tests; the combination of an extra 100bhp and launch control, meaning any buffoon could mash the throttle and not spear the wall, mean the DBX is unlikely to be winning many races.

I can see why you'd be more impressed by the time over a standing 1/4 mile . However, while I agree the 1/4 does avoid the engineering team choosing ratios so the car can hit 60 mph (or 100kph) without needing a second gear change (less relevant in the world of twin-clutch gearboxes with near-instantaneous, foot to the floor changes, but it used to be a killer with a manual) it is still a flat-out drag acceleration where launch control will help gain initial speed quickly, I still think "real world" roll-on acceleration times like 30-50, 50-70 and 50-100 tell you more about the capabilities of the car in actual driving. I'd also bet, without checking, that the differences in these times between the Urus (deleted the superfluous 's' from previous posts) and the DBX are irrelevant on the road.

I do understand that these number don't win bar room "top trumps" though.

[oilit]

Actually I like the DBX for having a unique (for now) chassis - I am sure it's better than OEM'ing a platform from somewhere else - which would have caused all sorts of hysteria.

I just think (sorry Vette) that a drag race or whatever that video was supposed to be is so far removed from what is important to me that it frankly bored me and made me realise why this whole influencer nonsense is just that ... nonsense. I hope the new management can see that - time will tell I guess.

More than happy to re-evaluate when a chancer (sorry influencer) has a car provided by a manufacturer and tells us all it's really bad.

I have never been to a drag race, would I like to go - never thought about it until I read Vettes write up on his project - and was looking only last week at when they might be opening up - so YES, but at least do it with something that is designed for the job - not some production car that has been specced by some influen .........yawn.

[Minglar]

oilit said:

I just think (sorry Vette) that a drag race or whatever that video was supposed to be is so far removed from what is important to me that it frankly bored me and made me realise why this whole influencer nonsense is just that ... nonsense. I hope the new management can see that - time will tell I guess.

oilit

It is interesting to read the reactions after I posted the video. I rather feel the same as you. I’m not a big fan of the so called influencer/vlogger culture that we currently live in, but I’m over fifty years old and this type of stuff is clearly not aimed at me. I assume that AM must think it’s a good strategy, although as we know this DBX was/is a dealer special, although I have seen MR in videos with him too, talking about the paint and the special badges. It all just leaves me cold, and I think it’s questionable whether many of the DBX target client base would be “influenced” by any of this content at all. As NFC said, said vlogger will most likely have bragging rights for a long time as a result of his involvement with this car. Rant over, I’ll go and get my pipe and slippers after I’ve pruned the roses in the garden……….

Nice weekend all and Best Regards

Minglar

[WantSagaris]

Minglar said:

oilit

It is interesting to read the reactions after I posted the video. I rather feel the same as you. I’m not a big fan of the so called influencer/vlogger culture that we currently live in, but I’m over fifty years old and this type of stuff is clearly not aimed at me. I assume that AM must think it’s a good strategy, although as we know this DBX was/is a dealer special, although I have seen MR in videos with him too, talking about the paint and the special badges. It all just leaves me cold, and I think it’s questionable whether many of the DBX target client base would be “influenced” by any of this content at all. As NFC said, said vlogger will most likely have bragging rights for a long time as a result of his involvement with this car. Rant over, I’ll go and get my pipe and slippers after I’ve pruned the roses in the garden……….

Nice weekend all and Best Regards

Minglar

I really don't think age has much to do with it, your assessments are similar to mine and i'm of the millennial generation. Not really a fan and very surprised of the strong links AM have taken with 'influencers' who don't have that many followers (relative to the most popular). I think it falls into the category of AM not really understanding their target audience or how to correctly market their products.

[Jon39]

WantSagaris said:

I really don't think age has much to do with it, your assessments are similar to mine and i'm of the millennial generation. Not really a fan and very surprised of the strong links AM have taken with 'influencers' who don't have that many followers (relative to the most popular). I think it falls into the category of AM not really understanding their target audience or how to correctly market their products.

Does millennial mean a birth date year 2001 onwards ? Age under 21 now.

I got the impression that when AP announced, he wanted 'new younger customers' for a £140,000 car, he probably looked at the age profile of existing AM customers and was shocked to find most of them were of (shall we say) an older vintage. He panicked, thinking this lot will be dead soon, so we must have cars which look trendy, fashionable up to date and futuristic.

What he overlooked, is that when most of us are under 40 or even 50ish, our spending priority is usually on children and home purchase. £140,000 two seat sports cars might then be a frivolous purchase for the majority of adults. He went on about the tremendous increase in millionaires (is that just liquid assets, or including homes that we want to live in?).

Having (on average) older customers for a premium product should be sustainable, because every year more people join the older vintage, replacing those who are taking their 'last ride'.

Would you say alienating the existing older customers, was a huge mistake ?
As we all know, for repeat purchase products (particularly premium products) it is usually much easier to sell something to an existing customer, rather than go out looking for new customers.

[WantSagaris]

Jon39 said:

Does millennial mean a birth date year 2001 onwards ? Age under 21 now.

I got the impression that when AP announced, he wanted 'new younger customers' for a £140,000 car, he probably looked at the age profile of existing AM customers and was shocked to find most of them were of (shall we say) an older vintage. He panicked, thinking this lot will be dead soon, so we must have cars which look trendy, fashionable up to date and futuristic.

What he overlooked, is that when most of us are under 40 or even 50ish, our spending priority is usually on children and home purchase. £140,000 two seat sports cars might then be a frivolous purchase for the majority of adults. He went on about the tremendous increase in millionaires (is that just liquid assets, or including homes that we want to live in?).

Having (on average) older customers for a premium product should be sustainable, because every year more people join the older vintage, replacing those who are taking their 'last ride'.

Would you say alienating the existing older customers, was a huge mistake ?
As we all know, for repeat purchase products (particularly premium products) it is usually much easier to sell something to an existing customer, rather than go out looking for new customers.

I don't see why it matters how old your target audience is as long as the money comes out their pockets. The growing number of younger affluent buyers are mainly outside of the UK, so maybe the perspectives of the UK audience don't understand the target audience as well as the companies do.

Yes you have Lamborghinis with their protrusions, shouty exhausts and bright colours, but you also have 911s, AMG GTs and Continental GTs with their smooth retro/modern, relatively fuss-free designs that are still hugely popular with a younger audience. Hell, we even have Ferrari releasing great Astons these days.

Regarding repeat customers, i suppose it comes down to how valuable they are to your business model. If you completely alienate them, as we have clearly seen, you are going to receive a lot of negative press from these previous buyers. In the case of DBX, its almost completely new customers so this is less an issue, with Vantage, considering its a £120k 2 seater V8 sports car in the age of Tesla, alienating repeat buyers seems a bad idea.

[LooneyTunes]

NFC 85 Vette said:

The short answer is that standing 1/4 mile data tells you much more about how strong a pair of lungs a car has, than a 0-60mph test, so in this case some would view it as the DBX being an embarrassment. As it currently stands, it's no contest when it comes to acceleration tests; the combination of an extra 100bhp and launch control, meaning any buffoon could mash the throttle and not spear the wall, mean the DBX is unlikely to be winning many races.

Does that matter? In a similar way to how Aston enthusiasts are more interested in looks than performance, the wider net that encompasses those looking at the luxury SUV segment, seem to be moving (or at least looking) away from the 'thug life' nature of the Urus, and towards the DBX. The simple reason being it offers something a bit more special (be that actual of perceived), and while the Urus might cover ground quickly, I'd regard it as a blunt force trauma kind of car. The irony is that the 'new money' customers aren't dissimilar to the Aston faithful, in that the DBX might not have the best performance stats, but it's special where it counts, relative to rivals. There's also a similar stigma with Urus ownership as there is if you own a new Aston.

I agree, and can’t help but think that if AM’s PR team supplied the vehicle for this then they might be missing some subtleties around branding. Remember Stroll saying it was about the brand? The brand isn’t about outright performance figures... which renders this sort of performance comparison largely meaningless.

Couldn’t give two hoots what shoutier YouTubers in general think about these cars (and “influence” isn’t necessarily always positive) but agree that the more considered end (Metcalfe, Harris, etc) can be good to watch from time to time.

[WantSagaris]

LooneyTunes said:

NFC 85 Vette said:

The short answer is that standing 1/4 mile data tells you much more about how strong a pair of lungs a car has, than a 0-60mph test, so in this case some would view it as the DBX being an embarrassment. As it currently stands, it's no contest when it comes to acceleration tests; the combination of an extra 100bhp and launch control, meaning any buffoon could mash the throttle and not spear the wall, mean the DBX is unlikely to be winning many races.

Does that matter? In a similar way to how Aston enthusiasts are more interested in looks than performance, the wider net that encompasses those looking at the luxury SUV segment, seem to be moving (or at least looking) away from the 'thug life' nature of the Urus, and towards the DBX. The simple reason being it offers something a bit more special (be that actual of perceived), and while the Urus might cover ground quickly, I'd regard it as a blunt force trauma kind of car. The irony is that the 'new money' customers aren't dissimilar to the Aston faithful, in that the DBX might not have the best performance stats, but it's special where it counts, relative to rivals. There's also a similar stigma with Urus ownership as there is if you own a new Aston.

I agree, and can’t help but think that if AM’s PR team supplied the vehicle for this then they might be missing some subtleties around branding. Remember Stroll saying it was about the brand? The brand isn’t about outright performance figures... which renders this sort of performance comparison largely meaningless.

Couldn’t give two hoots what shoutier YouTubers in general think about these cars (and “influence” isn’t necessarily always positive) but agree that the more considered end (Metcalfe, Harris, etc) can be good to watch from time to time.

I can't say I entirely agree. At the moment, Urus are selling well even on the second hand market because Lamborghini understand their target audience and the fact that most people who spend 200k+ on an SUV aren't looking for subtlety in the design language. The Urus knows it's OTT, loud and obnoxious at times and that's what people want from it. In fact, VAG have probably all types of SUV customer covered across all their brands so it's a difficult act to compete with.

Is it a good idea for DBX to be a one size fits all alternative, or to be more specific in who it targets? Who was Charlotte again?

Also, shouldn't AM be a little annoyed that somebody they have linked up with, who is supposed to be an advert for the brand, has just taken the car to a race it can't win?

Edited by WantSagaris on Saturday 3rd July 09:29