V12 Vantage Reviews MY 22

V12 Vantage Reviews MY 22

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Discussion

alscar

883 posts

190 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
Not sure when or what the “ last “ will be but this isn’t it -Roadster will no doubt arrive at some point then must be opportunity to milk ,sorry announce further specials.
333 models x however many versions are produced won’t at that stage feel exactly limited.
I assume the number plaques on the slam panel will read 001 etc out of TBD.
I like to think that when they do the major upgrades on the existing Vantage next year that a V12 might be on the cards then as indeed was seen on the previous Gen.
Price around the £180k- 200k point and they will sell.

hornbaek

3,534 posts

212 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
I wouldn’t be to sure that all 300 even find buyers. The market has turned and at 300k they will not shift that easily. For comparison, do we know how many Vantage F1 that have been sold. ?

Jon39

9,780 posts

120 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all

It must be tempting for AML to introduce other limited edition, V12 based models.

During recent years, a considerable amount of customer deposit money has been held by AML (millions of Pounds).
Now that the Valkyrie cars are gradually being delivered, that (free float) cash will reduce.

Presumably more can only be obtained, by additional expensive special models.


alscar

883 posts

190 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
Doesn’t have to be a solely special run - just bring it out as a production run and then bolt the specials on as additional.
I said previously they have got this round the wrong way though.

oilit

2,059 posts

155 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
I wonder how many would buy it if it was more widely available in reality?

The reviews are mixed and it may well be that limiting the qty has forced people to make a decision quickly for fear of missing out….master stroke or stupidity? - as others have said - only time will tell.

If you wanted one and got one then I am really pleased for you !

Beckson

Original Poster:

231 posts

28 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
How is it a masterstroke other than if the demand IS NOT THERE.... that being said with mixed reviews , I don't think you could sell 1500 at the current price.

AMArchie

268 posts

147 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
As an owner of a first run V12V, I am biased, but it is interesting to go back to this Autocar vid on that version from Steve Sutcliffe in May 2009…..
https://youtu.be/k8EPRWLPhWk
I’ve always felt there is an uncomplicated honesty about the original, which has been gradually lost or compromised by subsequent versions. The most recent incarnation seemingly continuing the trend.

oilit

2,059 posts

155 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
Beckson said:
How is it a masterstroke other than if the demand IS NOT THERE.... that being said with mixed reviews , I don't think you could sell 1500 at the current price.
That is exactly my point, and is kind of highlighted by the comment after yours.

The vantage isn't universally revered generally

The reviews aren’t in the same place as gen 1 V12 Vantage,

AM have heard voice of customer about the front grille, but I wonder how many cars leave the factory with the mesh vs the slats……

They listened about a desire for a manual transmission - how many did they sell?

They listened about a desire for a V12 - but i think they have realised all the noise compared to actual sales for all these requests have not boosted sales, so specials in limited numbers probably is the masterstroke imho.




pbe624

101 posts

112 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
I read in another forum from a member that bought the new V12 Vantage that the roadster version will be announced still this year. It will be in a more limited edition run than the coupe, and only available to those that bought the coupe also..... . This guy already ordered one... .

Disclaimer: this is what the owner said in the forum, to me sounds like a silly marketing scheme. Why would someone buy a coupe if they wanted a roadster? No everybody is a 'collector' wanting all models of a certain range. Sounds more like a scheme to pre-sell already as many roadsters as possible before they are released to the 'general public'.

F

AdamV12V

4,177 posts

154 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
pbe624 said:
I read in another forum from a member that bought the new V12 Vantage that the roadster version will be announced still this year. It will be in a more limited edition run than the coupe, and only available to those that bought the coupe also..... . This guy already ordered one... .

Disclaimer: this is what the owner said in the forum, to me sounds like a silly marketing scheme. Why would someone buy a coupe if they wanted a roadster? No everybody is a 'collector' wanting all models of a certain range. Sounds more like a scheme to pre-sell already as many roadsters as possible before they are released to the 'general public'.

F
It's already been posted here on the main V12VTT thread about the Roadster.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I said from very early on that there would be a roadster soon, as any of us with experience from the last V12V history would have known, it was pretty much nailed on from the start. There are some new members here with just a handful of posts and only been members for 5mins who then stated they were 99% sure AM wouldn't make any more, because well, AM had publicly said so! laugh

The issue seems to be that the new V12VTT seems to largely have little overlap with prior buyers of new V12V's from the previous generation, for all the reasons we've said, so AM are largely able to pull of the same stunt of saying its the only one ever, limited to xx cars only, and the new buyers are believing it.

My guess is there will be 167 roadsters, making 500 V12VTT's in total, and that's before the S etc is launched, By any count that's hardly a limited edition car, and together with the impending implosion of the economy (that again many people seem to have their head in the sand about), I just cannot see how these will hold their value well. The last limited edition Aston made in such numbers was the Zagato Vanquish (325 cars in total) and look what's happened to them - oversupply being the crux of the problem with that car.

I do think its a great car the new V12VTT, but the engine with GPF and detuning from the DBS output, meant that it was always likely to end up mildly disappointing. However I think it looks great and as long as owners buy to keep they shouldn't be too worried about a few hit n miss reviews. Flippers however may be on a path to find themselves with singed fins.

Jon39

9,780 posts

120 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all

Good morning Adam,

Your post is entirely accurate, however I am am begining to feel sorry for AML's financial and sales circumstances.
Should we 'play along', as something of a help to them ? If you agree, you might perhaps choose to erase your last two paragraphs.
Could possibly worry a few prospective customers. You choose, I don't mind. (I can delete this post.)

Regards,
Jon.


AdamV12V

4,177 posts

154 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
Lol fair point Jon, but I doubt my one post here will make any difference whatsoever to anyone. I don't think any serious owner buyer to keep will be be put off by anything said, nor do I believe flippers will be, and they are the ones actually at risk - and quite frankly they not good for any car marque. They only harm the brand long term by distorting residuals in either direction.

Anyway the factory has sold all the cars, so they are no doubt feeling very content with the project right now.

On a side note I was thinking… dealers seem to claim to be getting 1 car each (I know my dealer said this to me also), yet there seemingly are c160 AM dealerships worldwide now and 333 cars. So surely the average is 2 each, which would also mean the larger ones getting 3-4….scratchchin

Edited by AdamV12V on Friday 13th May 11:51

Jon39

9,780 posts

120 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all

AdamV12V said:
.... On a side note I was thinking… dealers seem to claim to be getting 1 car each (I know my dealer said this to me also), yet there seemingly are c160 AM dealerships worldwide now and 333 cars. So surely the average is 2 each, which would also mean the larger ones getting 3-4….scratchchin

Thanks.

I was thinking more in relation to buyers of the future (rumoured) V12VR (2022/23?).

Ref. dealer allocation V12V (2022). If AML's statement about all sold is truthful, then logically the only dealers to receive any, would be those whose customers have placed orders.

I posted earlier, that I was surprised by the widespread reviewers' criticism. Traditionally, especially the motoring journalists, have always been reasonably complimentary in what they always write (presumably for self interest reasons). Wonder why the change to being open about what they do not like?
Top Gear (video) even said, "I'd take the original manual V12V". (That might mean three of them, for the same cost!)





Edited by Jon39 on Friday 13th May 13:01

AdamV12V

4,177 posts

154 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
Jon39 said:

Ref. dealer allocation V12V (2022). If AML's statement about all sold is truthful, then logically the only dealers to receive any, would be those whose customers have placed orders.
Well I see your logic, but its long since been the normal way that the factory allocates a number of each cars to each dealer for them to try sell. So customers typically have to fight to find a dealer who hasn't sold their allocation yet if they arn't early sign ups (or favoured customers as seems to be the way for one or two other brands). Only in the event of failing to sell their allocation after a period of time will the factory reallocate unsold cars to another dealer with more customers than cars.

Minglar

647 posts

100 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
AdamV12V said:
Lol fair point Jon, but I doubt my one post here will make any difference whatsoever to anyone. I don't think any serious owner buyer to keep will be be put off by anything said, nor do I believe flippers will be, and they are the ones actually at risk - and quite frankly they not good for any car marque. They only harm the brand long term by distorting residuals in either direction.

Anyway the factory has sold all the cars, so they are no doubt feeling very content with the project right now.

On a side note I was thinking… dealers seem to claim to be getting 1 car each (I know my dealer said this to me also), yet there seemingly are c160 AM dealerships worldwide now and 333 cars. So surely the average is 2 each, which would also mean the larger ones getting 3-4….scratchchin

Edited by AdamV12V on Friday 13th May 11:51
I don’t want to sound like a grumpy old cynical man Adam, which of course I am, but I really do think we will see some of these cars sitting in dealerships at some point, possibly unregistered, or SOR from failed flips. When AM continually describe wholesale sales (to dealers) I am very sceptical about their actual numbers and claims. It wouldn’t surprise me one little bit if certain dealers get to spec their own new V12Vs without a firm customer order behind it. We shall see I guess.

Best Regards

Minglar

Jon39

9,780 posts

120 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all

AdamV12V said:
Well I see your logic, but its long since been the normal way that the factory allocates a number of each cars to each dealer for them to try sell. So customers typically have to fight to find a dealer who hasn't sold their allocation yet if they arn't early sign ups (or favoured customers as seems to be the way for one or two other brands). Only in the event of failing to sell their allocation after a period of time will the factory reallocate unsold cars to another dealer with more customers than cars.

Oh, I did not realise!

You are giving me the impression, that "All sold out" means, AML have sold every one of them to their dealers.
And there was naive me thinking, every V12V had been ordered by a customer.

The reviews won't help much now then. £300,000 with no extra charge for excessive road noise. No thank you. I don't mind hearing exhaust sound, but not tyre roar. Thought it has PS4S, same as I use. Wonder why noisy? Perhaps it is something to do with the latest 'muffled' exhaust systems.








alscar

883 posts

190 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
Not sure flippers have ever done that well on Gaydon Aston's unless flipped in the early days after full allocation sold as was the case with both the GT8 and 12.
Post this at the factory I was told by a senior member of staff that they would do everything they could to stamp out in the future.
As with Porsche I hope that flippers do get severely singed but as Porsche UK leave it to their dealers to allocate the limited models I doubt anything will change for Porsche !
I also believe that in the case of the Roadster V12 any existing Coupe buyers will be given the option to switch if they wish - and I think the same number will be available ie a total ( to date per se ) of 666.


AdamV12V

4,177 posts

154 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
Minglar said:
I don’t want to sound like a grumpy old cynical man Adam, which of course I am, but I really do think we will see some of these cars sitting in dealerships at some point, possibly unregistered, or SOR from failed flips. When AM continually describe wholesale sales (to dealers) I am very sceptical about their actual numbers and claims. It wouldn’t surprise me one little bit if certain dealers get to spec their own new V12Vs without a firm customer order behind it. We shall see I guess.

Best Regards

Minglar
There was a bit of tongue in cheek with that line about them all being sold wink I also don't believe for one minute that there are 333 confirmed signed up customers and I fully agree with your suspicions about the future. Anyway production is starting now, I know of one chap who has a build date in June, so we should see cars on the road very soon. How long will I take for the first flipped car to appear I wonder? With builds happening so quickly I suspect by late autumn we will see if our hypothesis on values is true or not. True owners to keep won't care of course, as a car only has a value if you sell it.


alscar said:
Not sure flippers have ever done that well on Gaydon Aston's unless flipped in the early days after full allocation sold as was the case with both the GT8 and 12.
Post this at the factory I was told by a senior member of staff that they would do everything they could to stamp out in the future.
As with Porsche I hope that flippers do get severely singed but as Porsche UK leave it to their dealers to allocate the limited models I doubt anything will change for Porsche !
I also believe that in the case of the Roadster V12 any existing Coupe buyers will be given the option to switch if they wish - and I think the same number will be available ie a total ( to date per se ) of 666.
I think you are right, AM has never been a succesful brand to flip really compared to P or F cars.

Surely not 666 cars! No marketing department in their right mind would say thats a smart move.... Still today is Friday the 13th so maybe today would make a good day to announce the other 333 cars biggrin

Edited by AdamV12V on Friday 13th May 13:52

alscar

883 posts

190 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
My bad Adam in terms of numbers although you said " in their right mind...".
Might be therefore " reduced " to say 332 and could be announced in a few weeks time perhaps ?
As with all the other editions that may then follow obviously pure conjecture but history usually repeats.

Jon39

9,780 posts

120 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all

AdamV12V said:
There was a bit of tongue in cheek with that line about them all being sold wink I also don't believe for one minute that there are 333 confirmed signed up customers and I fully agree with your suspicions about the future. Anyway production is starting now, I know of one chap who has a build date in June, so we should see cars on the road very soon. How long will I take for the first flipped car to appear I wonder? With builds happening so quickly I suspect by late autumn we will see if our hypothesis on values is true or not. True owners to keep won't care of course, as a car only has a value if you sell it.

I just cannot understand this.
On the announcement day, AML were saying all sold.

Imagine an interested prospecrive buyer is excited by the launch, but then hears they are too late, therefore forgets the whole idea.

If they do not have 333 signed customers, then what kind of marketing is that?
Losing customers at the outset.
Honest people quite rightly would believe an AML statement.

Do AML think the lost prospective buyers are for no reason, still going visit a dealer? They might, but probably not an Aston Martin dealer.

All most odd. Is there something obvious that I have overlooked ?