The new Vantage?
Discussion
hornbaek said:
The “mid-market” of sports cars has fallen off a cliff. Re-sale values of ICE cars are dropping dramatically (you could argue that their residual value is going towards zero) whilst new offerings still suffer from high costs due to inflationary pressure in the supply chain and labour costs. Gap between trade-in values and a new car have never been wider and the only thing shifting these days are company purchased/leased EVs where the buyer doesn’t deal with the residual risk. I just cannot see AML surviving in this market with their bread and butter models (the Vantage and DBX) being fully exposed to this diminishing and declining market.
Anything is possible, but if demand does reduce, the management must know that they need to react very quickly, by matching capacity and costs to level of sales. Operating two factories, each at part capacity would probably be the first aspect to deal with.
Perhaps their aim to have annual sales of 10,000 vehicles might not be achievable.
Their continual promise of future growth, used each time when more capital is raised, would require a rethink. I don't know the answer to that and there is also the difficulty of £billion debt.
Morgan Cars produce I think about 1,000 cars annually, but with appropriate operating costs do make pre-tax profits, so a smaller scale activity should make it possible for Aston Martin to continue.
AMENDMENT.
Forget what I said about Morgan. I have just looked at their most recent accounts. Oh dear.
RoNNy379CH said:
yes here in switzerland - i post a few months ago (4th july) the first new Vantage sale - begins with 333 333 CHF. The same lemon are now 299 000.
Even our new Vantage, which we will receive in March 2025, was not nearly as expensive.
We also received the launch package bonus, which reduces the price again by almost 30,000 chf.
We are really looking forward to our malachite green. I'm curious to see how the color will look.
The red one, is also the dealer's demo vehicle.
Even our new Vantage, which we will receive in March 2025, was not nearly as expensive.
We also received the launch package bonus, which reduces the price again by almost 30,000 chf.
We are really looking forward to our malachite green. I'm curious to see how the color will look.
The red one, is also the dealer's demo vehicle.
Edited by RoNNy379CH on Thursday 28th November 05:40
Your car will be stunning. Here is a Malachite Green one in New York. It looks great!!!
https://www.longislandsportscars.com/vehicle/SCFSM...
Edited by cb804 on Thursday 5th December 14:03
Jon39 said:
Anything is possible, but if demand does reduce, the management must know that they need to react very quickly, by matching capacity and costs to level of sales. Operating two factories, each at part capacity would probably be the first aspect to deal with.
Perhaps their aim to have annual sales of 10,000 vehicles might not be achievable.
Their continual promise of future growth, used each time when more capital is raised, would require a rethink. I don't know the answer to that and there is also the difficulty of £billion debt………..
IMHO, there currently appears to be a ‘perfect storm’ of circumstances, including; big slowdown of sales in China, huge post-covid increased costs, supply chain shortages, geo-political unrest, huge ramp-up of political pressure on voters to ditch ICE to move to pure EV (EV sales mandates & increased taxes on ICE), etc.Perhaps their aim to have annual sales of 10,000 vehicles might not be achievable.
Their continual promise of future growth, used each time when more capital is raised, would require a rethink. I don't know the answer to that and there is also the difficulty of £billion debt………..
It’s therefore not surprising to see the knock-on consequences of reduced demand, closing factories (Stellantis, VW) and increased likelihood of loss of lower selling car brands (Maserati? Alfa Romeo?).
I also think that the increasing EU mandatory ‘driver assistance’ is additionally making new cars less appealing (we know that many folks are holding onto their older cars for longer), adding additional pressure on car manufacturers & dealers to ‘shift metal’. It’s not a surprise therefore that AML are struggling to shift Vantages & DB12s,
In the absence of discounts (or price reduction) of newly ordered Astons (Stroll’s standing firm), expect lots more special edition Astons (007, AMR, etc), a new new V12 Vantage (‘never say never again’!) and other high end custom offerings (including hotels, furniture, motor bikes, property, whisky bottles, jewellery, etc.) to keep AML afloat. Yes, it would make sense to close one of AML’s factories, however the political message (the current failing UK Govt. won’t want to be seen presiding over closure of a SECOND UK car factory) could even mean taxpayer money being used to ‘prop things up’.
It’s an ‘interesting time’ for many car brands, including jaGUar, who appear to be taking a very brave road (EV only, divisive design/marketing, £250K price range!) in the face of these strong headwinds! Still, it was very nearly a dead brand, and therefore worthy of a more risky approach!
Interesting times!
Just my two cents worth……
VantageHead said:
It’s not a surprise therefore that AML are struggling to shift Vantages & DB12s,
Had this from my local dealer earlier in the week.....Email from Aston Martin dealer said:
To celebrate the festive season our DB12 range will be at a very competitive price for a limited time. We have 9 DB12's left in stock to go before Christmas, that will be at a very attractive price. You don't want to miss out as this will only be for a very limited time!
cb804 said:
Your car will be stunning. Here is a Malachite Green one in New York. It looks great!!!
https://www.longislandsportscars.com/vehicle/SCFSM...
Thanks for sharing your info. March is not so far away......https://www.longislandsportscars.com/vehicle/SCFSM...
Edited by cb804 on Thursday 5th December 14:03
raceboy said:
VantageHead said:
It’s not a surprise therefore that AML are struggling to shift Vantages & DB12s,
Had this from my local dealer earlier in the week.....Email from Aston Martin dealer said:
To celebrate the festive season our DB12 range will be at a very competitive price for a limited time. We have 9 DB12's left in stock to go before Christmas, that will be at a very attractive price. You don't want to miss out as this will only be for a very limited time!
Interesting - 9 DB12's in stock at one dealer !
Further proof that 'dealer stuffing' appears to be happening.
Of course those nine count as 9 cars already sold and in AML's 2024 sales figures, paid for by the dealer (or their stock finance company).
'We only build to order' (an LS quotation).
'You don't want to miss out'
Yes I do, because I already have a beautiful Aston Martin.
raceboy said:
VantageHead said:
It’s not a surprise therefore that AML are struggling to shift Vantages & DB12s,
Had this from my local dealer earlier in the week.....Email from Aston Martin dealer said:
To celebrate the festive season our DB12 range will be at a very competitive price for a limited time. We have 9 DB12's left in stock to go before Christmas, that will be at a very attractive price. You don't want to miss out as this will only be for a very limited time!
VantageHead said:
Jon39 said:
Anything is possible, but if demand does reduce, the management must know that they need to react very quickly, by matching capacity and costs to level of sales. Operating two factories, each at part capacity would probably be the first aspect to deal with.
Perhaps their aim to have annual sales of 10,000 vehicles might not be achievable.
Their continual promise of future growth, used each time when more capital is raised, would require a rethink. I don't know the answer to that and there is also the difficulty of £billion debt………..
IMHO, there currently appears to be a ‘perfect storm’ of circumstances, including; big slowdown of sales in China, huge post-covid increased costs, supply chain shortages, geo-political unrest, huge ramp-up of political pressure on voters to ditch ICE to move to pure EV (EV sales mandates & increased taxes on ICE), etc.Perhaps their aim to have annual sales of 10,000 vehicles might not be achievable.
Their continual promise of future growth, used each time when more capital is raised, would require a rethink. I don't know the answer to that and there is also the difficulty of £billion debt………..
It’s therefore not surprising to see the knock-on consequences of reduced demand, closing factories (Stellantis, VW) and increased likelihood of loss of lower selling car brands (Maserati? Alfa Romeo?).
I also think that the increasing EU mandatory ‘driver assistance’ is additionally making new cars less appealing (we know that many folks are holding onto their older cars for longer), adding additional pressure on car manufacturers & dealers to ‘shift metal’. It’s not a surprise therefore that AML are struggling to shift Vantages & DB12s,
In the absence of discounts (or price reduction) of newly ordered Astons (Stroll’s standing firm), expect lots more special edition Astons (007, AMR, etc), a new new V12 Vantage (‘never say never again’!) and other high end custom offerings (including hotels, furniture, motor bikes, property, whisky bottles, jewellery, etc.) to keep AML afloat. Yes, it would make sense to close one of AML’s factories, however the political message (the current failing UK Govt. won’t want to be seen presiding over closure of a SECOND UK car factory) could even mean taxpayer money being used to ‘prop things up’.
It’s an ‘interesting time’ for many car brands, including jaGUar, who appear to be taking a very brave road (EV only, divisive design/marketing, £250K price range!) in the face of these strong headwinds! Still, it was very nearly a dead brand, and therefore worthy of a more risky approach!
Interesting times!
Just my two cents worth……
ChrisW. said:
... I wonder what the cost is of AML's borrowing ? ...1
In 2023 - £202.9 million.
Understandably, AML cannot obtain low interest rates when seeking loans.
I remember a time when they were renewing debt, it was roughly 10% fixed interest over only about 5 years.
Bank of England base rate was around 1%.
At the same time, a large FTSE 100 business was renewing debt at 4% fixed over 20 years.
Yesterday, on asking an AML main dealer (S. England) about Nottingham’s communication to their customers about discounted DB12s (and whether they’d be doing similar), I was told “ Aston Martin in our opinion are still progressing forward albeit from the outside may not look like it (due to profits). It takes a long time to undo the historic damages and when you change a full model line up, its bound to take time for the product to bed in especially when you only produce one vehicle for 9 months. This is likely and has led to an overstock of the DB12. We haven’t and won’t market as some other larger dealers do and haven’t needed to. We’ve moved on four DB12’s in the last five weeks with healthy margin giving the £5K - £6K off where needed. Certainly nothing close to what Nottingham are insinuating. There are some dealers out there that have some very old new cars in stock. We are lucky enough not to be in this position.”
It does strike me as a bit ‘tone deaf’ and reminds me of the ‘Starmbot’ getting the phrase “£22 billion black hole” into every answer he gives (including how many eggs he wants for breakfast)!!
It will be interesting to see how this hard line pans out for AML in 2025, and whether continued corporate losses results in AML (Stroll) softening the line on worthwhile discounts or restructured prices in order to ‘move the metal’..
In the mean time, we’ll no doubt be seeing an increasing number of low mileage, hugely depreciated used Vantages and DB12s appearing on the forecourt (just as we have with every other model).
Fun times!
It does strike me as a bit ‘tone deaf’ and reminds me of the ‘Starmbot’ getting the phrase “£22 billion black hole” into every answer he gives (including how many eggs he wants for breakfast)!!
It will be interesting to see how this hard line pans out for AML in 2025, and whether continued corporate losses results in AML (Stroll) softening the line on worthwhile discounts or restructured prices in order to ‘move the metal’..
In the mean time, we’ll no doubt be seeing an increasing number of low mileage, hugely depreciated used Vantages and DB12s appearing on the forecourt (just as we have with every other model).
Fun times!
Edited by VantageHead on Saturday 7th December 09:12
Has anyone in the UK received a discount on new new Vantage?
I know that folks in Switzerland have received discounts on options, however with end of year sales targets to meet, and news of good deals on surplus DB12s, has anyone purchased (or been offered) a new new Vantage at a price below list?
I have a discussion with another UK dealer tomorrow to discuss a showroom model, and wondering if there will be any leeway……. I’m not holding my breath though.
I know that folks in Switzerland have received discounts on options, however with end of year sales targets to meet, and news of good deals on surplus DB12s, has anyone purchased (or been offered) a new new Vantage at a price below list?
I have a discussion with another UK dealer tomorrow to discuss a showroom model, and wondering if there will be any leeway……. I’m not holding my breath though.
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