New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys

New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys

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Discussion

z4me

303 posts

135 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
My 2011 Z4 booked in next week for update. Thing about that Audi video, where would they get that first key to open the door with?

t8cmf

342 posts

126 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
James P said:
I had a call from my dealer today and have booked in for the "security update" (their words) - I'll ask about SIB when I'm there.
Nice one James. thumbup

Cheers.

garyhun

30,847 posts

194 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
z4me said:
My 2011 Z4 booked in next week for update. Thing about that Audi video, where would they get that first key to open the door with?
Interesting! Guess I should call mine seeing as I have a 2011 Z4 too smile

z4me

303 posts

135 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
garyhun said:
z4me said:
My 2011 Z4 booked in next week for update. Thing about that Audi video, where would they get that first key to open the door with?
Interesting! Guess I should call mine seeing as I have a 2011 Z4 too smile
Yeah, I saw some guys on z4 forum had been contacted by BMW for the update, so thought I'd better give them a call. Especially in light of the Swiftcover email I received last month.

youngsyr

12,257 posts

158 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
pingu393 said:
spbspb said:
Hi Guys,
I had my 08 M3 nicked last Sat night/Sun morning. By the time I reported theft to Trafficmaster, the tracker was not sending a signal.
Now, what was interesting - and where I would like expert advice - is about what Trafficmaster told me about their tracking system.
They say that when the car is started, the tracker sends its last parked location.
They say the last transmission located it at my local shops (and not on my drive from which it was nicked). I had indeed been to the local shops earler in the day and that was my last journey.
Hence it sounds like thieves did not clone key and use it to drive off.
Trafficmaster also say that if the car is rolled onto a lowloader, the movement without ignition being used will also cause an alert to be transmitted.
I guess the thieves could have cloned the key, opened the car, found the tracker and ripped it out, then driven off. But that would surely have taken a lot of time unless they knew where to look?
Does anyone know details of the Trafficmaster system? Are they telling me BS? Or if the thieves are just getting more clever?
Any input would be appreciated.
The TrafficMaster system is usually buried deep inside the car and has its own power supply. To remove it in 10 minutes, they would need to know exactly where it was and destroy a lot of the car to get to it. I suspect that they may have found a way of jamming/blocking the signal.
Exactly. Consider how the tracker communicates with its base, then search ebay/google for jammers. Last time I did I found one that could be plugged in to the cigarette lighter and cost less than £50.

Probably not the first thing on your mind in the circumstances, but could people posting up about car thefts please mention the approximate area of the theft - it would help other owners nearby to up their security (if they haven't already). smile

bigandclever

11,340 posts

204 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
z4me said:
Thing about that Audi video, where would they get that first key to open the door with?
The video description tells you exactly where you can get the necessary equipment. The whole thing is, basically, a tutorial for car thieves. But as the sellers themselves say "All devices are sold for official use only!!! If you use them for any illeagal purposes, this is your own responsibility !!! " ... so that's alright then.

va1o

15,950 posts

173 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
bigandclever said:
z4me said:
Thing about that Audi video, where would they get that first key to open the door with?
The video description tells you exactly where you can get the necessary equipment. The whole thing is, basically, a tutorial for car thieves. But as the sellers themselves say "All devices are sold for official use only!!! If you use them for any illeagal purposes, this is your own responsibility !!! " ... so that's alright then.
I'm sure they know full well that they get used for vehicle theft.

Looks like it will affect all the MLB chassis based models with the cartridge key, so B8 A4 onwards

The Polo/ Golf based models with the traditional flip key (A1, A3, Q3 and TT) should be Ok...

barrisimo

70 posts

202 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
pingu393 said:
spbspb said:
Hi Guys,
I had my 08 M3 nicked last Sat night/Sun morning. By the time I reported theft to Trafficmaster, the tracker was not sending a signal.
Now, what was interesting - and where I would like expert advice - is about what Trafficmaster told me about their tracking system.
They say that when the car is started, the tracker sends its last parked location.
They say the last transmission located it at my local shops (and not on my drive from which it was nicked). I had indeed been to the local shops earler in the day and that was my last journey.
Hence it sounds like thieves did not clone key and use it to drive off.
Trafficmaster also say that if the car is rolled onto a lowloader, the movement without ignition being used will also cause an alert to be transmitted.
I guess the thieves could have cloned the key, opened the car, found the tracker and ripped it out, then driven off. But that would surely have taken a lot of time unless they knew where to look?
Does anyone know details of the Trafficmaster system? Are they telling me BS? Or if the thieves are just getting more clever?
Any input would be appreciated.
The TrafficMaster system is usually buried deep inside the car and has its own power supply. To remove it in 10 minutes, they would need to know exactly where it was and destroy a lot of the car to get to it. I suspect that they may have found a way of jamming/blocking the signal.
Exactly. Consider how the tracker communicates with its base, then search ebay/google for jammers. Last time I did I found one that could be plugged in to the cigarette lighter and cost less than £50.

Probably not the first thing on your mind in the circumstances, but could people posting up about car thefts please mention the approximate area of the theft - it would help other owners nearby to up their security (if they haven't already).


I posted a week or so ago about my M3 going 58 plate. I live in Highgate North London. A client of mine who lives in west London had his M5 go the same week. I was lucky that my tracker remained active and we recovered the car in Basildon. I have seen my vehicvle and these people know what they are doing. Door opened with a screw driver to activate the comfort access on the windows. Disklock cut off like it was a bit on tin! They went to town on the inside lifting all the carpets in the front of the car and in the boot to exposes the electrical wiring. I would imagine they went looking for evidence of the tracker. My car is going no chance I will park it on the road anymore. Having seen what they did I don't think removing the comfort access or installing an OBD port will stop them these are very skilled and determined crims.

eastsider

1,078 posts

189 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
I was in at my local indy yesterday for some work to my E39 and we discussed this issue. He mentioned that all the BMW software upgrade/recall does is stop the windows dropping from the door lock being drilled/having a screwdriver inserted/whatever these thieves do. There is nothing in the upgrade that addresses the fundamental flaw of being able to pair a blank key to the car in minutes via OBD. Therefore I would say that despite this software upgrade the cars are still extremely vulnerable.

Due to not owning an affected model anymore I haven’t been following this thread so closely, so apologies if this information has already been posted.

t8cmf

342 posts

126 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
eastsider said:
I was in at my local indy yesterday for some work to my E39 and we discussed this issue. He mentioned that all the BMW software upgrade/recall does is stop the windows dropping from the door lock being drilled/having a screwdriver inserted/whatever these thieves do. There is nothing in the upgrade that addresses the fundamental flaw of being able to pair a blank key to the car in minutes via OBD. Therefore I would say that despite this software upgrade the cars are still extremely vulnerable.

Due to not owning an affected model anymore I haven’t been following this thread so closely, so apologies if this information has already been posted.
I don't think this is true. I've read on another forum from somebody that programs his own car that the upgrade kills the OBD port. If you want to authorise another key you have to put your original key in the dash to "wake" the OBD port up. Unless you have the original key you cannot get your EDILOCK hand held computer to communicate with the cars CAS module. This module is where the 10 key spaces are stored. Two are used for your two original keys from BMW and 8 spaces are blank. You can remove the 8 spare spaces to stop other keys being added to the CAS module list but if you lose your original two fobs you will have to fork out for a new CAS module which I'd imagine will not be cheap.

This is my understanding of the update from other sources so don't take it as gospel. I know the comfort access issue keeps getting mentioned reference the update but if it was CA linked then why would they bother to update cars that dont have CA fitted?

BMW STOLEN

1 posts

103 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
BMW need to sort out this problem.

My 335i was stolen last saturday morning from our drive way, there was no broken glass and we have both sets of keys! They stole it within 10 minutes.

The police were their usual helpful self and advised us to use a steering lock! when you buy a new prestige car you don’t expect someone to steel it without the key!



Kuroblack350

1,333 posts

166 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
Earlier in my thread I posted about my E92 Sept 2011 build, which was apparently un-affected by the security flaw - I even got a nice letter from Lloyd Blackpool (that's where BMW Customer Services had registered me for the fix - at that point they were unsure if I was affected) saying I was unaffected. (phew, and what a waste of money that OBD lock was wink - consigned the disclok to the garage once more)

Update - they just called to see when I'd like to book the car in for the update...

So, this may be an admin error of some sort, or it may mean that post September 2011 E92 are affected, despite the feasible and entirely sensible post by a PH'er responding to my earlier date/affected question...

When the update has been installed I'll try and post as much detail as they are happy to provide.

eastsider

1,078 posts

189 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
t8cmf said:
This is my understanding of the update from other sources so don't take it as gospel. I know the comfort access issue keeps getting mentioned reference the update but if it was CA linked then why would they bother to update cars that dont have CA fitted?
Its not a comfort access issue, its something to do with the door key (who uses that anymore) / alarm that can be easily made to drop all two/four windows if you know how. On all models whether CA fitted or not. This also disarms the alarm, hence quiet entry leaving them to code key without being disturbed.

as7920

542 posts

167 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
FWIW, just spoken to BMW CS and they have said the update is available for my June '11 plate 1 series and my dealer will be calling me to book it in by early next week.

Rotten Egg

1,113 posts

213 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
I've this afternoon received a call from a nice sounding young lady at S****r (won't name and shame wink) to book in my E92 330D

She assures me that the upgrade is a software fix and it is something to do with disabling the OBC port to prevent key cloning.

I'll feedback more after next Wednesday when it will supposedly be theft resistant . . . . .

SMP

t8cmf

342 posts

126 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
eastsider said:
Its not a comfort access issue, its something to do with the door key (who uses that anymore) / alarm that can be easily made to drop all two/four windows if you know how. On all models whether CA fitted or not. This also disarms the alarm, hence quiet entry leaving them to code key without being disturbed.
Ahh, I got you now.

Hopefully BMW cover their arses by releasing a viable firmware fix. If they have delivered a half-arsed update that doesn't actually disable the OBD port then the thieving scumbags out there will find a way around it again. BMW will be back to square one with another big headache.

Kuroblack350

1,333 posts

166 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
Rotten Egg said:
I've this afternoon received a call from a nice sounding young lady at S****r (won't name and shame wink) to book in my E92 330D

She assures me that the upgrade is a software fix and it is something to do with disabling the OBC port to prevent key cloning.

I'll feedback more after next Wednesday when it will supposedly be theft resistant . . . . .

SMP
Cool, I'm in the same boat and same car wink What's your build date out of interest?

pingu393

4,480 posts

171 months

Wednesday 14th November 2012
quotequote all
Are the insurance companies paying for these thefts or are they being compensated by BMW?

Gra76

28 posts

217 months

Thursday 15th November 2012
quotequote all
Had my call from my BMW dealer too - car is going in for the 'security enhancement' (that doesn't address the problem in any way, shape or form as far as I'm concerned) on Monday.

I'll continue to use my Disclok and will be getting my OBD port moved asap.

What a rediculous situation.

Steffan

10,362 posts

194 months

Thursday 15th November 2012
quotequote all
pingu393 said:
Are the insurance companies paying for these thefts or are they being compensated by BMW?
No in a word.

If this continues (which I fervently hope it will not for all the BMW owners) then the insurance companies will decline all such business and the models affected will become uninsurable except at stratospheric premiums.

I do suspect this is much more of a problem in urban areas where there are rich pickings for the toe rags. If you live on the Isle of Skye I cannot see much of a threat. I suspect the insurers will take the same view.

The real culprits in this are the toe rag thieves. Nothing effective has been done about these scrotes in my lifetime and I doubt it will. Therefore I think for very desirable cars, this will become an ongoing problem. I do think the BMW brand will take a battering, which given the appalling inadequacy of the security on these cars, and the dreadful failure by BMW to be honest about the extent of the problem, will damage the brand. With good reason.

But the failure of law enforcement to prevent these thefts is the real problem.