New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys

New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys

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r999

78 posts

120 months

Saturday 17th November 2012
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B10BRW said:
Are you this rude normally, or do you have to practise nono

I do not consider myself lucky,if our vehicles were fit for purpose, I with many other BMW owners should not have to be getting this "update" done in the first place
So you are angry because a dealer wants your car for one whole day, and you are going to spend your time hunting round for one who will do it more quickly. Sheesh...

t8cmf

342 posts

126 months

Saturday 17th November 2012
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BMWTech,

Can I ask a question also?

Does the upgrade update the entire cars firmware or does it just upgrade a particular module?

The reason I ask is that most owners of E92 M3's I know of on another forum have had the update and one way to tell is that the DSC OFF symbol is changed from a warning triangle to a car with sliding skid marks. One owner picked his car up the other day after having the update and his DSC OFF symbol is still the old style warning triangle which is a little confusing. It doesn't add up with what the other owners have had done.

I'm hoping it upgrades the entire car as my M3 is still on its 2007 factory install.

r999

78 posts

120 months

Saturday 17th November 2012
quotequote all
t8cmf said:
BMWTech,

Can I ask a question also?

Does the upgrade update the entire cars firmware or does it just upgrade a particular module?

The reason I ask is that most owners of E92 M3's I know of on another forum have had the update and one way to tell is that the DSC OFF symbol is changed from a warning triangle to a car with sliding skid marks. One owner picked his car up the other day after having the update and his DSC OFF symbol is still the old style warning triangle which is a little confusing. It doesn't add up with what the other owners have had done.

I'm hoping it upgrades the entire car as my M3 is still on its 2007 factory install.
According to BMWTech, the update he refers to was first announced to dealers on Friday afternoon, that is, yesterday. So none of the people you've heard from has had it done yet. That is why I said we need to distinguish clearly between this new update (whatever it is, and assuming it exists) and the one BMW has been offering to some people for a while. As I hinted, an extra layer of confusion will arise from having two updates, and evidently my prediction is already coming true.


BMWTech

13 posts

105 months

Saturday 17th November 2012
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r999 said:
BMWTech said:
I appreciate your concern, but I'm only trying to help others...
How can this be an extra layer of encryption when the EU laws that gave rise to this problem insist that people other than BMW dealers must be able to prepare new keys?

Are you taking about encryption from the OBD port to the CAS module or encryption from the key to the CAS module? Or something else?

Is this fix a replacement for the one that BMW has been applying already, which supposedly just stops the windows rolling down after a screwdriver is forced into the lock? Or is it in addition to that fix?

How is the car going to behave differently after this fix (or these fixes, if we are now talking about two) is applied?

Apologies for asking several questions, but you'll understand that people have had to take action and protect themselves without any help for the past few months, and consequently now need to understand just what vulnerabilities have been removed and what might remain.
I appreciate your concerns and you ask good questions. I will look further into this on Monday. I only had a skim read of the details on Friday, but from what I have read it stipulated that there was a new 'layer' which required the use of BMW dealer software to access. It involves programming the CAS through the OBD. My manager has also been asking questions to BMW UK about the matter in question, but details are sketchy at the moment.


The fix itself will definitely cure the programming of blank keys, but I don't think it mentioned the window drop (the key word in that sentence being 'think'). Most cars nowadays have the window-drop feature if you hold the unlock button on the key or insert the key into the door lock and hold it in the unlock position (my old fiesta had this!). As long as there are nice cars, there will always be thieving bds finding their weak points.

If it's any consolation, the programming of keys doesn't effect only BMW's. The programming software works on any car with an OBD port and fob remote. The new Fiesta has also been a common stolen car recently with the keyless go technology. Any mid/high spec car with this faces the possibility of being stolen, but unfortunately for us, BMW's are better than Ford/VW/Audi etc and are more 'stolen to order'. After all, if you have the technology, would you steal a £12k VW Passat or £40k 3 Series?

Hope that helps for now, will stay in touch wink

r999

78 posts

120 months

Saturday 17th November 2012
quotequote all
BMWTech said:
Hope that helps for now, will stay in touch wink
Thanks. Much appreciated. I (and I'm sure many others) will look forward to whatever more you can find out.

There have been disappointments before, but if this news lives up to its promise, it will be the most significant development for many months.



Edited by r999 on Saturday 17th November 21:23

t8cmf

342 posts

126 months

Saturday 17th November 2012
quotequote all
r999 said:
According to BMWTech, the update he refers to was first announced to dealers on Friday afternoon, that is, yesterday. So none of the people you've heard from has had it done yet. That is why I said we need to distinguish clearly between this new update (whatever it is, and assuming it exists) and the one BMW has been offering to some people for a while. As I hinted, an extra layer of confusion will arise from having two updates, and evidently my prediction is already coming true.
As far as I'm aware BMW stated that cars built after September 2011 are immune to this type of theft. Those that have subsequently gone into BMW to have their update (there are many on the M3 forum I frequent) surely must have had this update so therefore will be protected. Have I missed something?

Totally agree that if two versions of the update is available then even more confusion will reign.

Edited by t8cmf on Saturday 17th November 21:29

Panda76

2,088 posts

116 months

Saturday 17th November 2012
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Interesting info BMWTECH.
Sods law I was in the dealers friday morning getting service work.
Will give them a call Monday.

Dudikoff

30 posts

152 months

Monday 19th November 2012
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07 335i coupe, woke up to a smashed driver side window, diagnostic port pulled out, not sure why car is still on driveway! Very annoying.

Mr Bimmer

283 posts

130 months

Monday 19th November 2012
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Dudikoff said:
07 335i coupe, woke up to a smashed driver side window, diagnostic port pulled out, not sure why car is still on driveway! Very annoying.
When did you last have some work done at the main dealers?

If its within the last year, then you probably already have the updated firmware which kept the thieves out.

tonker

61,205 posts

214 months

Monday 19th November 2012
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B10BRW said:
Just been to my local BMW dealer Cooper, yes sir the "update" only takes an hour, but we need to have it all day in case we Cock it up, and have to try again banghead

Why am I not surprised, has anyone else been told their dealer wants it all day.
Looking for another dealer to do it now mad
there are tens of thousands of cars needing updates. Without seeming daft, do you really think you'll find another dealer really quickly. Why not just ask Cooper for a courtesy car ? I don't like Cooper, but I think you're being unreasonable here.... would you rather they had said "sure, it'll take an hour." then you come back and it's not done ? I have sympathy with them - because for every customer that says "I'll be in at 8.30" they know one that says that and turns up at 11.15 and wants their job done NOW..... - so they get them all in early and then order their day accordingly...

Now, if I could find someone who could tell me whether my March 2011 build F11 is at risk, then I'd get it booked in....

matue007uk

2 posts

103 months

Monday 19th November 2012
quotequote all
Hi All - I own a BMW 320d M Sport 2010 and I found another solution on the internet to protect my vehicle and it works great.

smack

9,508 posts

157 months

Monday 19th November 2012
quotequote all
matue007uk said:
Hi All - I own a BMW 320d M Sport 2010 and I found another solution on the internet to protect my vehicle and it works great.
A tasteless chavtastic bodykit?

Pferdestarke

7,167 posts

153 months

Monday 19th November 2012
quotequote all
matue007uk said:
Hi All - I own a BMW 320d M Sport 2010 and I found another solution on the internet to protect my vehicle and it works great.
Thanks for that 007. Is it an exploding pen?

Kuroblack350

1,333 posts

166 months

Monday 19th November 2012
quotequote all
t8cmf said:
r999 said:
According to BMWTech, the update he refers to was first announced to dealers on Friday afternoon, that is, yesterday. So none of the people you've heard from has had it done yet. That is why I said we need to distinguish clearly between this new update (whatever it is, and assuming it exists) and the one BMW has been offering to some people for a while. As I hinted, an extra layer of confusion will arise from having two updates, and evidently my prediction is already coming true.
As far as I'm aware BMW stated that cars built after September 2011 are immune to this type of theft. Those that have subsequently gone into BMW to have their update (there are many on the M3 forum I frequent) surely must have had this update so therefore will be protected. Have I missed something?

Totally agree that if two versions of the update is available then even more confusion will reign.

Edited by t8cmf on Saturday 17th November 21:29
Quick update in terms of 'affected' dates. Just booked my September 2011 E92 in for the update next Friday - apparently it is affected, and will be suitably 'enhanced' over a 90 minute period...

Edited to add; I know this is an abvious point, but build date and registered date are quite different for those folks doing their 'am I affected' homework.

matue007uk

2 posts

103 months

Monday 19th November 2012
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Hi – thanks for your comments, the device I had fitted prevents communication via the OBD port and it still all looks original if a crook was to try and steal my vehicle.

Gra76

28 posts

217 months

Monday 19th November 2012
quotequote all
B10BRW said:
Just been to my local BMW dealer Cooper, yes sir the "update" only takes an hour, but we need to have it all day in case we Cock it up, and have to try again banghead

Why am I not surprised, has anyone else been told their dealer wants it all day.
Looking for another dealer to do it now mad
I just had mine done at a Cooper dealership this morning. Took just under 2 hours including time to give it a vacuum and once over with a sponge. Not too bad at all.

I just hope it works. The chap on the service desk was very confident in saying it was fixed. Couldn't tell me anymore than that when I asked what the 'fix was. He told me he wasn't allowed to incase I told someone, who told someone else, who told a gang of thieves so they could work out how to get around it....think the horse might have bolted already on that one but nevermind.

The Diskloc is staying on till I'm 100% happy it's fixed. I'm not quite there just yet...

youngsyr

12,283 posts

158 months

Monday 19th November 2012
quotequote all
matue007uk said:
Hi – thanks for your comments, the device I had fitted prevents communication via the OBD port and it still all looks original if a crook was to try and steal my vehicle.
Might be an idea to put a sticker in the window warning of additional security fitted as otherwise the crooks will just assume they can steal it easily and break in anyway.

Mr Bimmer

283 posts

130 months

Monday 19th November 2012
quotequote all
tonker said:
Now, if I could find someone who could tell me whether my March 2011 build F11 is at risk, then I'd get it booked in....
No worries with the F series. They aren't affected with the same issue.

r999

78 posts

120 months

Monday 19th November 2012
quotequote all
Mr Bimmer said:
No worries with the F series. They aren't affected with the same issue.
You may be right. But then again BMWTech may have been right when he said that the new fix given to dealers on Friday is for "ALL models from 2005 onwards".

But one thing is certain: you can't both be right.

Until we have better information and firmer evidence about the latest developments, people would be well advised to stop making unsupported assertions that may no longer be correct. There's enough confusion already.



Edited by r999 on Monday 19th November 16:06

Mr Bimmer

283 posts

130 months

Monday 19th November 2012
quotequote all
r999 said:
You may be right. But then again BMWTech may have been right when he said that the new fix given to dealers on Friday is for "ALL models from 2005 onwards".

But you can't both be right.

Until we have better information and firmer evidence about the latest developments, people would be well advised to stop making unsupported assertions that may no longer be correct. There's enough confusion already.
That's because all E9* models have used the same cas firmware since 2005. Why BMW have said pre 07 cars are unaffected is anyone's guess.

If you care to go back to page 14 you will see that the correct info was given way back then. BMW UK don't tell their dealers everything.