Discussion
Hi guys, not been on here for a while as I've been pondering over my car and what to do with it, I have an e46 2001 325ti compact (which I quite like) but looking for more power, yes I know I've read the threads on various forums about chasing horsepower in N/A cars, some here will remember my enquiry regarding 330i engine swaps and the general opinion was yes a decent amount of extra power for minimal outlay as apparently all the ancillaries are the same etc, but apparently not, I believe the throttle bodies are a bigger bore, 68mm to the 325's 64mm, so I assume the intake pipes would be bigger and the air flow sensor, plus I thought about the implications of insurance, so to cut a long story short and a lot of research, I have decided to keep my little hatch and engine, which I like and for minimal outlay squeeze a few extra horses out of it, (sometimes its better the devil you know), so the question is, after browsing one day I stumbled on a site called Vortex Exhausts, to read it and take it at face value it sounds like a revolutionary idea and great upgrade for any car is I believe the guy who thought of it done for exhausts what Dyson done for vacuum cleaners. Basically a section of the exhaust spins the gasses, which DRAWS them out resulting in MINIMUM 10% extra BHP, torque and fuel economy, Has anyone here any knowledge or experience with one of these? Yes they are 800 quid for cat back, but then you'd pay around £550+ for say a longlife stainless system which doesn't boast any extra performance or economy of any real relevance, you are just paying for an exhaust that lasts longer and perhaps sounds better, They do claim the figures could be much better, but playing it on the conservative side so not to disappoint customers, so why hasn't every boy racer, petrol head or enthusiast heard of them??
Spinning the exhaust gases won't draw them out it will slow them down as they are no longer travelling in a straight line, this will create more back pressure & reduce scavenging, so no, nobody else does it for a reason!
Remap, better flowing exhaust, better headers, proper CAI & you will get what you are after for under £1K.
Remap, better flowing exhaust, better headers, proper CAI & you will get what you are after for under £1K.
OK, that may be how they get round that claim, the ST is (I assume) the turbocharged engine, they are far less critical wrt back pressure as the turbo will naturally create back pressure to begin with.
328 headers are an easy first step, they are more tubular & therefore flow better, better still M3 headers.
328 headers are an easy first step, they are more tubular & therefore flow better, better still M3 headers.
I've drawn a blank with the engine swap thing as I can't be 100% sure about everything as I'm getting different feedback from different people, with regards the vortex thing I think how it works is that it builds it's own momentum as it spins, it works with dysons, we use the same technology in our steam boilers at work now as it's more efficient, so there must be something in it, any one know anybody who has one?
I think you NEED to question what it is doing & how as if it worked others would have been doing it, the principle in the Dyson is nothing new, alas unlike as you are thinking it isn't to make the air move faster, it is to alleviate the use of the bag in normal vacuum cleaners by encouraging the dirt picked up to drop out of the airflow into the bottom of the vacuum chamber, completely different to what an exhaust is doing in a car.
Andy70 said:
I've drawn a blank with the engine swap thing as I can't be 100% sure about everything as I'm getting different feedback from different people, with regards the vortex thing I think how it works is that it builds it's own momentum as it spins, it works with dysons, we use the same technology in our steam boilers at work now as it's more efficient, so there must be something in it, any one know anybody who has one?
No, you're way off. A Dyson simply encourages the air to cyclone so that centrifugal force sends the particles to the outside of the collector. The air is then drawn out from the centre where it's cleaner. No connection to the theory you're going for.
As has been said, forcing the exhaust gases to spiral around a silencer can do nothing but take energy from the gases and slow them down. To get the gains claimed you'd need to have some further influence.
Have you seen Vortex's disclaimer? Quite interesting.
Actually no I haven't, that would be interesting, I must admit all I'm going by bis their explication and the explication from ed China as he used one on Wheeler Dealers and thought it was great and in suppose I saw the logic in how the system worked but still needed other opinions too, Ok point taken, thanks guys, what does the disclaimer say any way?
[quote]Although Vortex Exhaust believes the content to be complete, current and right, Vortex Exhaust makes no warranty as to the comprehensive, currency or correctness of the content. It is your responsibility to verify any data before depending on it. The web site may include technical inaccuracies or typographical errors. Changes will be made to the site content herein, from time to time. Vortex Exhaust may make changes in the services described herein at any time.
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FWIW I'd look up a couple of old Practical Performance Car articles where available. In particular to the Vortex Will Hollman fitted to his now dead Capri 302 V8 on throttle bodies.
Initially he sung all sorts of praises about it. I don't know if he changed more of the engine ; I "think" he may have gone from stock heads to Edelbrock items as well as switching from a 4 barrel Holley carb to throttle bodies running off an Emerald ECU. I do know however that he did make more power at the top with a straight through exhaust. OK he went from a large single bore exhaust to a smaller twin bore but it's surprising at the power he gained.
For that reason I'd stick with what you have or get an off the shelf exhaust ,although I've only truly noticed a performance difference on a handful of cars that I have owned.
Initially he sung all sorts of praises about it. I don't know if he changed more of the engine ; I "think" he may have gone from stock heads to Edelbrock items as well as switching from a 4 barrel Holley carb to throttle bodies running off an Emerald ECU. I do know however that he did make more power at the top with a straight through exhaust. OK he went from a large single bore exhaust to a smaller twin bore but it's surprising at the power he gained.
For that reason I'd stick with what you have or get an off the shelf exhaust ,although I've only truly noticed a performance difference on a handful of cars that I have owned.
Nothing new: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=82... 'discussion' about this system from 7 years ago. Talk of 119hp Novas and 14hp gains from a backbox alone.
If it worked, it would be renowned and respected in tuning circles. Because it doesn't, nobody has ever heard of them.
If it worked, it would be renowned and respected in tuning circles. Because it doesn't, nobody has ever heard of them.
If it was this simple, why isn't it fitted by car manufacturers already? Why hasn't the company sold the idea to a big car manufacturer? If you came up with a way to improve fuel consumption by even 1%, a big car manufacturer would pay you ten figures for it, yet here they are, selling to the gullible.
Just another BS "fuel saving" device that belongs in the same bin as magnets, fuel catalysts and high energy spark plugs.
Just another BS "fuel saving" device that belongs in the same bin as magnets, fuel catalysts and high energy spark plugs.
Edited by Monty Python on Tuesday 23 May 08:13
Andy70 said:
I dunno they claim they got 30 hp on a focus ST after putting it on a rolling road??
Not same make exhaust or indeed car, but turbo car gains can be very impressive, saw the gains a new civic type r turbo got from exhaust swap last wk, independent test simply a before & after dyno after swap & garage didn't sell the exhaust so no reason to fudge figures, it was a real 20+ bhp gain.Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff