EGR Fire - Technical Campaign - N47, B47 and N57

EGR Fire - Technical Campaign - N47, B47 and N57

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Discussion

Ninja59

Original Poster:

1,994 posts

50 months

Wednesday 8th August 2018
quotequote all
Just a warning after the fires in Korea, that there is now a "technical campaign" (in other words recall) in Europe (from memory about 300,000 cars in total), essentially it relates to N47, B47 and N57 engines.

"Munich. BMW AG investigations have revealed that - similar to the current Korean situation - an Exhaust-Gas-Recirculation (EGR) module malfunction may, in rare cases, cause fires in some BMW diesel vehicles in the European market.

The BMW Group has decided to carry out a technical campaign to check the EGR module and replace any faulty components on the potentially affected vehicles.

In the European market this technical action relates to the EGR module of BMW 3 Series, 4 Series, 5 Series, 6 Series, 7 Series, X3, X4, X5, X6 vehicles with 4-cylinder diesel engines (production from April 2015 until September 2016) and 6-cylinder diesel engines (production from July 2012 until June 2015).

Part of this EGR module is the EGR cooler. In some cases, small quantities of the glycol coolant can escape and build up in the EGR module. When combined with carbon and oil sediments, this deposit can become combustible. With the high temperatures of the exhaust gases in this unit, these deposits can ignite. In rare cases this may cause melting of the intake manifold and in extreme cases a fire may result.

This technical campaign has been decided in accordance with the EU approved guidelines for risk assessment. Customers with affected vehicles will be contacted as soon as possible."

It may for ones that have a few minutes just having a nose at your inlet manifold to see if there is any signs of the plastic melting. There have been about 20 fires in Korea because of the above.

Not that many N57 owners have had EGR coolers replaced wink.

SteBrown91

1,199 posts

67 months

Wednesday 8th August 2018
quotequote all
Does this affect cars that have had the EGR emissions recall/service enhancement?

Ninja59

Original Poster:

1,994 posts

50 months

Wednesday 8th August 2018
quotequote all
SteBrown91 said:
Does this affect cars that have had the EGR emissions recall/service enhancement?
I presume you are referring to the B47 engines that have already had changes, the only way I can say is chances are "yes".

I did call my dealership today, but my car is not showing as needing it yet (640D, N57) but I think it will show in time as needing it.

slicknic

23 posts

68 months

Thursday 9th August 2018
quotequote all
Well this is interesting. I have a 2014 F10 530D with about 70k miles. About 2 weeks ago the EML would intermittently come on, and then after a few days was on permanently. The car ran mostly ok, but was underpowered and occasionally hesitated from cold. I booked it in at the dealer.

On investigation they found a problem with the EGR valve and cooler, and also that the intake manifold had holes in it due to melting.

In my case BMW contributed to the whole of the parts cost (£1800) and I paid the labour which was approx £600. I was happy that BMW stumped up for the parts, even though the car was 11 months outside the 3 year warranty.


I would be interested to know if anyone else has this issue.

Ninja59

Original Poster:

1,994 posts

50 months

Thursday 9th August 2018
quotequote all
slicknic said:
Well this is interesting. I have a 2014 F10 530D with about 70k miles. About 2 weeks ago the EML would intermittently come on, and then after a few days was on permanently. The car ran mostly ok, but was underpowered and occasionally hesitated from cold. I booked it in at the dealer.

On investigation they found a problem with the EGR valve and cooler, and also that the intake manifold had holes in it due to melting.

In my case BMW contributed to the whole of the parts cost (£1800) and I paid the labour which was approx £600. I was happy that BMW stumped up for the parts, even though the car was 11 months outside the 3 year warranty.


I would be interested to know if anyone else has this issue.
I know of 2 cars in the UK that have suffered issues that are exactly the same in regards to the inlet manifold having melted. No doubt there are more.

EGR coolers are a common problem on the N57's and are about £400-500.

Generally the EML light will come on due to the EGR not operating correctly as they have fairly tight parameters. The off and on behaviour nature will be in part due to it operating correctly for a period then failing to operate as expected (have a Google to see a bit more about the valve coming in and out)

The main EGR valve tends to fail due to the level of carbon build up and essentially will fail because of that. In that particular circumstance they are "consumables" if you want. With ever tighter emissions standards EGR's are more heavily used to reduce the emissions and so it is less of case of if, but more when an EGR will fail. Although saying that some EGR's have failed for other reasons, such as lazy slow release or going back in properly.

EGR coolers is a weird one, I know of so many EGR cooler failures it is a joke on the N57, generally the coolant lines snapped on them. However it seems inconsistent in failure mechanism whilst it is "common" it seems it only happens to certain cars a few times, other times other owners get away with it. Mileage and age seem to be inconsistent, having heard about very young cars below say a year old to ones that have done far more miles or ones that are generally just older.

Generally you will smell coolant at start up and smoke from the exhaust as coolant is burnt, and to go with that reducing coolant levels.

The problem here is that combined with any form of significant carbon build up, plus coolant and heat then you are likely to see the plastic inlet manifold melt as obviously coolant should never be in the intake area!

Personally in your circumstance I would wait a little bit let this develop and see if BMW will refund some of your costs as clearly the failure mechanism is exactly the same.
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stewart rix

200 posts

155 months

Thursday 9th August 2018
quotequote all
I've got a 63 plate 420d which has just had the EGR valve and manifold replaced due to the very issues described in the recall. I was a few metres from my driveway on my way home from work when white smoke began pouring out from under the bonnet and then almost immediately into the cabin. Fortunately the smoke cleared pretty quickly after switching off - no obvious fire. The car was recovered to BMW who advised that there was a 'component failure' and that the manifold (presume this link between the exhaust and EGR cooler) had melted. The car was out of warranty, but I was given a 75% BMW contribution to the [eye watering] bill. Maybe this should have been covered by the recall too?

I'd noticed a loss of coolant just 2 weeks before the above happened and had had the cooling system pressure checked for leaks - nothing no loss of pressure.......Sadly an omen of things to come. So beware!

Edited by stewart rix on Thursday 9th August 08:27

iSore

3,870 posts

82 months

Thursday 9th August 2018
quotequote all
'BMW recalls eight billion cars for basically being st'.

laugh


Ninja59

Original Poster:

1,994 posts

50 months

Thursday 9th August 2018
quotequote all
stewart rix said:
I've got a 63 plate 420d which has just had the EGR valve and manifold replaced due to the very issues described in the recall. I was a few metres from my driveway on my way home from work when white smoke began pouring out from under the bonnet and then almost immediately into the cabin. Fortunately the smoke cleared pretty quickly after switching off - no obvious fire. The car was recovered to BMW who advised that there was a 'component failure' and that the manifold (presume this link between the exhaust and EGR cooler) had melted. The car was out of warranty, but I was given a 75% BMW contribution to the [eye watering] bill. Maybe this should have been covered by the recall too?

I'd noticed a loss of coolant just 2 weeks before the above happened and had had the cooling system pressure checked for leaks - nothing no loss of pressure.......Sadly an omen of things to come. So beware!

Edited by stewart rix on Thursday 9th August 08:27
Coolant loss is almost the most obvious first sign to the EGR issue really, you may get smoke from the exhaust as well which would make it more obvious.

Did you get any EML?

Edited by Ninja59 on Thursday 9th August 09:24

slicknic

23 posts

68 months

Thursday 9th August 2018
quotequote all
Ninja59 said:
I know of 2 cars in the UK that have suffered issues that are exactly the same in regards to the inlet manifold having melted. No doubt there are more.

EGR coolers are a common problem on the N57's and are about £400-500.

Generally the EML light will come on due to the EGR not operating correctly as they have fairly tight parameters. The off and on behaviour nature will be in part due to it operating correctly for a period then failing to operate as expected (have a Google to see a bit more about the valve coming in and out)

The main EGR valve tends to fail due to the level of carbon build up and essentially will fail because of that. In that particular circumstance they are "consumables" if you want. With ever tighter emissions standards EGR's are more heavily used to reduce the emissions and so it is less of case of if, but more when an EGR will fail. Although saying that some EGR's have failed for other reasons, such as lazy slow release or going back in properly.

EGR coolers is a weird one, I know of so many EGR cooler failures it is a joke on the N57, generally the coolant lines snapped on them. However it seems inconsistent in failure mechanism whilst it is "common" it seems it only happens to certain cars a few times, other times other owners get away with it. Mileage and age seem to be inconsistent, having heard about very young cars below say a year old to ones that have done far more miles or ones that are generally just older.

Generally you will smell coolant at start up and smoke from the exhaust as coolant is burnt, and to go with that reducing coolant levels.

The problem here is that combined with any form of significant carbon build up, plus coolant and heat then you are likely to see the plastic inlet manifold melt as obviously coolant should never be in the intake area!

Personally in your circumstance I would wait a little bit let this develop and see if BMW will refund some of your costs as clearly the failure mechanism is exactly the same.
OK thanks, I appreciate the info.

Ninja59

Original Poster:

1,994 posts

50 months

Friday 10th August 2018
quotequote all
It seems I am another victim of this, coolant dropped from Max a few weeks ago to minimum. Inlet Manifold is showing signs of having a slightly melted bit in front of the EGR awesome, not.

I am still under warranty thank god.

stewart rix

200 posts

155 months

Friday 10th August 2018
quotequote all
Ninja59 said:
Coolant loss is almost the most obvious first sign to the EGR issue really, you may get smoke from the exhaust as well which would make it more obvious.

Did you get any EML?

Edited by Ninja59 on Thursday 9th August 09:24
No EML, but the coolant loss (warning light did show for that) was the pre-curser. I'd refilled the top up bottle and monitored change in level over the next week or so. Hadn't noticed any white exhaust smoke nor odd smells in the cabin.

Ninja59

Original Poster:

1,994 posts

50 months

Friday 10th August 2018
quotequote all
stewart rix said:
No EML, but the coolant loss (warning light did show for that) was the pre-curser. I'd refilled the top up bottle and monitored change in level over the next week or so. Hadn't noticed any white exhaust smoke nor odd smells in the cabin.
Mine has done exactly this. Tech has just said he is doing EGR Coolers pretty much daily, flatbed most likely to the dealer.

I think the worst bit is you have to know about it as there is little to no real warning about the issue.

Edited by Ninja59 on Friday 10th August 08:41

Fox-

13,127 posts

184 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
So a good two weeks since the press release and there appears to be no further information about this - anyone heard anything?

Mr Tidy

7,381 posts

65 months

Wednesday 22nd August 2018
quotequote all
Fox- said:
So a good two weeks since the press release and there appears to be no further information about this - anyone heard anything?
What's the rush - I got a recall notice from BMW for my E91 dated 27 June 2018!

I had already called my local agent and got on the waiting list (the parts aren't available sir) - I'm still waiting!

Just get in the queue. mad

Ninja59

Original Poster:

1,994 posts

50 months

Wednesday 22nd August 2018
quotequote all
Fox- said:
So a good two weeks since the press release and there appears to be no further information about this - anyone heard anything?
I have heard rumblings, but nothing I could say categorically concrete.

I know one owner who suffered like the above (including manifold melting) and had some moanings about warranty, but critically after he pushed BMW UK he got a snippet of information that in the coming weeks there was due to be something pushed out to owners (as well as having his costs covered after the parts were replaced).

I have heard of plenty of N57 EGR cooler failures, but the manifold melting seems more common on the N47. The B47 has been a nightmare anyway even before this kicked off.

karol-jprjc

5 posts

5 months

Friday 21st September 2018
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My 640d has egr cooler leak . Loosing 1 litre coolant every 3 weeks. ( pressure tested by myself?) Just find out recall for that. Happy days. Drop my car in bmw garage. After they check no leaks? Wtf? I'm confused now. What to do?

Ninja59

Original Poster:

1,994 posts

50 months

Friday 21st September 2018
quotequote all
They should never use coolant, chances are it is leaking internally is there any sweet smell or white smoke from the exhausts?

Chances are it is going through the engine you won't find a "leak" as such.

diegokarol

5 posts

5 months

Friday 21st September 2018
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No white smoke or smell yet. It's very small leak at the moment.

Ninja59

Original Poster:

1,994 posts

50 months

Tuesday 25th September 2018
quotequote all
Right on the grapevine I have heard that some dealers now have lists for this. Some are not getting booked in for near on a month though so be aware.

I expect if you need it doing you could have fun with getting parts as I sense EGR coolers are going to be a favourite for a while.

But, and say but to those that may need these replacing this "situation" of EGR cooler (irrespective of failure method) has been a problem on N57's for a LONG time. BMW was offering goodwill on EGR coolers for many out of warranty with little resistance if you needed any proof.

outnumbered

2,321 posts

172 months

Tuesday 25th September 2018
quotequote all
Since the recall applies to "6-cylinder diesel engines (production from July 2012 until June 2015)." does this mean that an N57 from 2010 is going to be OK and not suffer from this problem ? Or are BMW just assuming that they're so old they're not worth fixing if they do happen to catch fire ?