E39 530i intermittent non start

[lufbramatt]

Just waiting on a fuel pump as they were on back order from Bosch. (Bosch apparently are partners with TI Automotive/Walbro who are the OEM). They're due early April, so fingers crossed. I only want to do the job once and not in a rush so went with a new one rather than second hand.

As a side note it's so annoying all these places that list things as being in stock on their websites but in reality they just don't ever update anything, so you order it and a few hours later you get an email saying they don't actually have it. Seems like it happens for most things I order for this car now.

[d_a_n1979]

lufbramatt said:

Just waiting on a fuel pump as they were on back order from Bosch. (Bosch apparently are partners with TI Automotive/Walbro who are the OEM). They're due early April, so fingers crossed. I only want to do the job once and not in a rush so went with a new one rather than second hand.

As a side note it's so annoying all these places that list things as being in stock on their websites but in reality they just don't ever update anything, so you order it and a few hours later you get an email saying they don't actually have it. Seems like it happens for most things I order for this car now.

Yeah that happens a lot unfortunately

Fingers crossed you'll get it soon enough

[lufbramatt]

Got all the bits. LCM swapped back in and all lights work fine, scored a genuine new crank sensor for £40 on ebay so swapped that once i realised how easy it was to get to.

Doing the fuel pump related bits now. Can't for the life of me find the fuel pump relay. It's not up behind the glove box, have had all that out and the only relay there is for the horn. Dropped the cream plastic carrier down which contains two modules and a junction box and there are no relays above it.

There are two green relays on the fuse box above the battery. Removing both of these does not stop the car from running. Think they are for the heated rear screen and parking sensors possibly.

Am now stumped.

[d_a_n1979]

lufbramatt said:

Got all the bits. LCM swapped back in and all lights work fine, scored a genuine new crank sensor for £40 on ebay so swapped that once i realised how easy it was to get to.

Doing the fuel pump related bits now. Can't for the life of me find the fuel pump relay. It's not up behind the glove box, have had all that out and the only relay there is for the horn. Dropped the cream plastic carrier down which contains two modules and a junction box and there are no relays above it.

There are two green relays on the fuse box above the battery. Removing both of these does not stop the car from running. Think they are for the heated rear screen and parking sensors possibly.

Am now stumped.

Not sure what year your E39 is but this should help:

https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/where-is-my-fue...

[lufbramatt]

Thanks yes have spent the last hour trawling forum threads! It’s a dec 2002 530i saloon so it should be behind the glovebox. But it isn’t.


Boot relays above battery:



Stuff behind glovebox:

[d_a_n1979]

lufbramatt said:

Thanks yes have spent the last hour trawling forum threads! It’s a dec 2002 530i saloon so it should be behind the glovebox. But it isn’t.


Boot relays above battery:



Stuff behind glovebox:

Have a read here Matt; just going through my E39 Bookmarks folder on my Mac to see what's relevant:

https://www.m5board.com/threads/e39-fuel-pump-rela...

[lufbramatt]

Got it to replicate the no hot start issue. Could hear a relay ticking (have removed rear seat to hear/feel what fuel pump was doing). Fuel pump wasn’t priming.

Tracked the ticking down to the e-box under the near side pollen filter. There’s definitely a relay in there that isn’t latching.

Can’t get two of the bolts holding the lid of the box off though. The moulded in nuts are just spinning. Ffs

[d_a_n1979]

lufbramatt said:

Got it to replicate the no hot start issue. Could hear a relay ticking (have removed rear seat to hear/feel what fuel pump was doing). Fuel pump wasn’t priming.

Tracked the ticking down to the e-box under the near side pollen filter. There’s definitely a relay in there that isn’t latching.

Can’t get two of the bolts holding the lid of the box off though. The moulded in nuts are just spinning. Ffs

Ah yeah; had that with my pals M5

Use a screwdriver to pry the screw up if you can to make it get purchase on the plastic as you try and screw it out; or use a trim removal tool like:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Door-car-trim-upholstery-...

That's what we did; one of us driving the cordless screwdriver carefully as the other applied upwards pressure. They came out

Replaced with slightly thicker self tapping screws and some ceramic grease to stop them corroding

[lufbramatt]

Small amount of progress. Levering technique worked well

Just got to identify what all the bits are

[d_a_n1979]

lufbramatt said:

Small amount of progress. Levering technique worked well

Just got to identify what all the bits are

That's a good start! If the screws are buggered, use cable ties for now to hold it back together

[lufbramatt]

For reference the fuel pump relay is the blue one in the e-box part number 6915327.

Not a green one behind the glove box like everyone says! (Not on this car anyway)

[d_a_n1979]

lufbramatt said:

For reference the fuel pump relay is the blue one in the e-box part number 6915327.

Not a green one behind the glove box like everyone says! (Not on this car anyway)

Glad you got that sorted!

Still having running issues?

[lufbramatt]

Yes

Swapped fuel pump and although it seems to run smoother it still doesn’t start when it’s warmed up.

That blue relay clicks (I haven’t replaced that yet) and the gauges do this, lights on and temp gauge in red (it’s not overheated).



I think there is something more sinister going on.

When it’s running it’s perfect but there’s some issue that seems to be stopping the ecu coming on when the car is warmed up.

If you leave it 5-10 mins it will start and run fine.

Edited by lufbramatt on Thursday 18th April 15:18

[d_a_n1979]

lufbramatt said:

Yes

Swapped fuel pump and although it seems to run smoother it still doesn’t start when it’s warmed up.

That blue relay clicks (I haven’t replaced that yet) and the gauges do this, lights on and temp gauge in red (it’s not overheated).

I think there is something more sinister going on.

When it’s running it’s perfect but there’s some issue that seems to be stopping the ecu coming on when the car is warmed up.

If you leave it 5-10 mins it will start and run fine.

Have you had any water ingress at all? Just wondering whether it's worth you removing the drivers seat and checking the connections in the floor area there

https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/fuse-box-under-...

[lufbramatt]

Actually I think the clicking blue relay is the DME relay, still no idea where the fuel pump relay is but don’t think that’s the issue.

I found this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hk1HjL8PTRg

That’s the exact symptoms mine has. Looks like a possible DME issue.

[d_a_n1979]

lufbramatt said:

Actually I think the clicking blue relay is the DME relay, still no idea where the fuel pump relay is but don’t think that’s the issue.

I found this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hk1HjL8PTRg

That’s the exact symptoms mine has. Looks like a possible DME issue.

Yeah Not unheard of, but sortable

[lufbramatt]

So I think there are two options- repair the existing ecu or find a 2nd hand one and get the info from the old one cloned on to it so it can talk to the ews.

Need to find someone reliable who can do the programming.

[d_a_n1979]

lufbramatt said:

So I think there are two options- repair the existing ecu or find a 2nd hand one and get the info from the old one cloned on to it so it can talk to the ews.

Need to find someone reliable who can do the programming.

Try Keith at AK SPEEDO or Baris at Carphonics

If they can't, they'll know who can

[lufbramatt]

Well the intermittent non start issue turned into a permanent non start. Wouldn’t even crank. Ecu and ews were tested and found to be perfectly fine, tested in another car with the same engine, couldn’t replicate the issue. Appears there is a fault on the canbus lines that’s stopping any communication between the modules.

Bit the bullet and got it recovered to a specialist. Hopefully they can sort it.

[d_a_n1979]

lufbramatt said:

Well the intermittent non start issue turned into a permanent non start. Wouldn’t even crank. Ecu and ews were tested and found to be perfectly fine, tested in another car with the same engine, couldn’t replicate the issue. Appears there is a fault on the canbus lines that’s stopping any communication between the modules.

Bit the bullet and got it recovered to a specialist. Hopefully they can sort it.

Sorry to be reading this Fingers crossed they get it sorted soon enough