KTM gone into administration?
Discussion
NickZ24 said:
Bikesalot said:
Awful lot of money gets written off if a deal is reached.
Seems like a regular Business feature for some. Going Chapter 11 than lowering the burden. Off we go again.
t and by virtue of that they're also in deep st. You can then buy some time and justify getting some people in who might know how to get things back on track.Krikkit said:
KurtFlew said:
Wonder if they'll pull the plug on the GP project to keep them afloat.
They should imhoRed Bull plus the other sponsors will want to keep their marketing going, and KTM/Acosta needs to be there, assuming now Marquez won't be a Red Bull rider in 2025. So there must be support from them to some degree.
As daft as it sounds I wonder if KTM could be a brand that doesn't produce bikes and leases bikes from other factories and just brand them, take Ducati's and stick KTM on them as a sponsor, probably a daft idea but it keep the brand going while they figure it out.
Like many of the contributors to this thread I have owned and do own a KTM but my individual experience isn't what’s driving this outcome, it’s the damage that has been done to the brand by the company themselves. A trend of short sighted decisions and hubris have brought them to this point. Decisions like….
Outsourcing production - yes every company does it but you can’t charge European prices for non European components if you don't maintain quality.
In app purchases - Who feels great about your new purchase when their first experience is having to pay more, a lot more, to use the hardware already built into the bike. Tell customers the real price ,not the initial price, to compete with other brands on a level playing field.
Victim blaming - Our product doesn’t have an issue, you are the issue. Oh, wait….
In house competition - Orange, white or red. Three sets of overheads for one product.
Pricing strategy - By constantly changing prices the customer is assured brutal depreciation, problematic for a discretionary product in a tough financial landscape.
Bad faith - By refusing genuine warranty claims existing customers will not return and new customers will be wary of stepping into their place.
In a nutshell they thought the customers would always be there for them even when they were not there for the customers. I hope they can recover but whoever signed off on all of the above should not be part of the company in the future.
Outsourcing production - yes every company does it but you can’t charge European prices for non European components if you don't maintain quality.
In app purchases - Who feels great about your new purchase when their first experience is having to pay more, a lot more, to use the hardware already built into the bike. Tell customers the real price ,not the initial price, to compete with other brands on a level playing field.
Victim blaming - Our product doesn’t have an issue, you are the issue. Oh, wait….
In house competition - Orange, white or red. Three sets of overheads for one product.
Pricing strategy - By constantly changing prices the customer is assured brutal depreciation, problematic for a discretionary product in a tough financial landscape.
Bad faith - By refusing genuine warranty claims existing customers will not return and new customers will be wary of stepping into their place.
In a nutshell they thought the customers would always be there for them even when they were not there for the customers. I hope they can recover but whoever signed off on all of the above should not be part of the company in the future.
Playsatan said:
I hope they can recover but whoever signed off on all of the above should not be part of the company in the future.
Agree with a lot of that but I think the failure is mainly due to overreaching as a lot of other manufacturers do the same and are still OK. Aprilia aren't great with reliability or customer back-up either and in recent years have at times discounted heavily.Unfortunately I think two of the people responsible are still on the board - leopards and spots.
Playsatan said:
Like many of the contributors to this thread I have owned and do own a KTM but my individual experience isn't what’s driving this outcome, it’s the damage that has been done to the brand by the company themselves. A trend of short sighted decisions and hubris have brought them to this point. Decisions like….
Outsourcing production - yes every company does it but you can’t charge European prices for non European components if you don't maintain quality.
In app purchases - Who feels great about your new purchase when their first experience is having to pay more, a lot more, to use the hardware already built into the bike. Tell customers the real price ,not the initial price, to compete with other brands on a level playing field.
Victim blaming - Our product doesn’t have an issue, you are the issue. Oh, wait….
In house competition - Orange, white or red. Three sets of overheads for one product.
Pricing strategy - By constantly changing prices the customer is assured brutal depreciation, problematic for a discretionary product in a tough financial landscape.
Bad faith - By refusing genuine warranty claims existing customers will not return and new customers will be wary of stepping into their place.
In a nutshell they thought the customers would always be there for them even when they were not there for the customers. I hope they can recover but whoever signed off on all of the above should not be part of the company in the future.
I cannot argue with any of the above...Outsourcing production - yes every company does it but you can’t charge European prices for non European components if you don't maintain quality.
In app purchases - Who feels great about your new purchase when their first experience is having to pay more, a lot more, to use the hardware already built into the bike. Tell customers the real price ,not the initial price, to compete with other brands on a level playing field.
Victim blaming - Our product doesn’t have an issue, you are the issue. Oh, wait….
In house competition - Orange, white or red. Three sets of overheads for one product.
Pricing strategy - By constantly changing prices the customer is assured brutal depreciation, problematic for a discretionary product in a tough financial landscape.
Bad faith - By refusing genuine warranty claims existing customers will not return and new customers will be wary of stepping into their place.
In a nutshell they thought the customers would always be there for them even when they were not there for the customers. I hope they can recover but whoever signed off on all of the above should not be part of the company in the future.
I hadn't considered stuff like unlocking the tech pack etc, wasn't an issue for me as it was included in the deal, but for some it's an additional charge for simply a software unlock, any associated hardware (i.e. Q/shifter) is already on the bike just disabled.
Warranty, frankly I've have no issues touch wood, so I cannot really comment, but I know my experience with other brands has always been pretty good, some cases brilliant and gone way above expectations, that's possibly the dealer also.
Pricing, again such a sore point, they discount like crazy over the winter months which ultimately affects residuals and hurts customers.
Its cheaper for everyone when the cool stuff is "unlocked" on the bike. The time and money spent on R&D is where the cost comes from. Its cheaper and more effective to just include the physical parts on the bikes.
I've no issues on that aspect of it at all. It makes me think some people need some kind of placebo "black box" installed and they'd be happier.
It does however make the price of the fully unlocked bike hidden, which is what everyone wants in reality. It wasn't waved in my face how much the tech pack cost until you ask, and that CAN be negotiated.
I've no issues on that aspect of it at all. It makes me think some people need some kind of placebo "black box" installed and they'd be happier.
It does however make the price of the fully unlocked bike hidden, which is what everyone wants in reality. It wasn't waved in my face how much the tech pack cost until you ask, and that CAN be negotiated.
I paid a few hundred for the q/s on the duke and the RC. The dukes Q/S is ok, the RC's doesn't work. Or it does then the bike jumps out of gear, or it changes then doesn't and you nut the screen. Twice I've been in about it. I've had a sensor changed and the unit reinstalled, I need to book it in again next year to see if they can fix it. Wish I never bothered.
snagzie said:
Its cheaper for everyone when the cool stuff is "unlocked" on the bike. The time and money spent on R&D is where the cost comes from. Its cheaper and more effective to just include the physical parts on the bikes.
That's not entirely true when it comes to electronics though. In the EV world it's cheaper to mass produce one item and use software to gate it, than to produce say 3-4 different items. So for bikes it depends on how much is hardware vs software vs economies of mass production.Bob_Defly said:
snagzie said:
Its cheaper for everyone when the cool stuff is "unlocked" on the bike. The time and money spent on R&D is where the cost comes from. Its cheaper and more effective to just include the physical parts on the bikes.
That's not entirely true when it comes to electronics though. In the EV world it's cheaper to mass produce one item and use software to gate it, than to produce say 3-4 different items. So for bikes it depends on how much is hardware vs software vs economies of mass production.Biker9090 said:
I notice that some of the "press" (if you can call them that) are still desperately pushing for the brand.
Bennetts especially are getting extremely defensive on their social media.
Link?Bennetts especially are getting extremely defensive on their social media.
I’m an owner but do find the pile on a bit strange. They aren’t in this position because the bikes they make are rubbish.
snagzie said:
Bob_Defly said:
snagzie said:
Its cheaper for everyone when the cool stuff is "unlocked" on the bike. The time and money spent on R&D is where the cost comes from. Its cheaper and more effective to just include the physical parts on the bikes.
That's not entirely true when it comes to electronics though. In the EV world it's cheaper to mass produce one item and use software to gate it, than to produce say 3-4 different items. So for bikes it depends on how much is hardware vs software vs economies of mass production.The court proceedings started today - turns out KTM's debts are between 2.5bn and 3bn EUR. Ouch.
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/1060879/1/woes-d...
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/1060879/1/woes-d...
TimmyWimmyWoo said:
The court proceedings started today - turns out KTM's debts are between 2.5bn and 3bn EUR. Ouch.
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/1060879/1/woes-d...
Give or take 150,000 x the most expensive single product you sell. Pretty spicy. Makes you wonder what anyone involved was thinking. https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/1060879/1/woes-d...
Iamnotkloot said:
Somebody should tell Autosport that KTM are in many series, not just MotoGP, particularly off-road, and with their other brands Husqvarna and Gas Gas......with some top riders, Mani, Herlings, Josep and Billy.
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