Off road - As fun as it looks?

[Pebbles167]

Any advice for someone looking to get off road for the first time? Entry routes, bikes, gear etc. I could of course just refer to YouTube, but I like the thinly veiled piss taking and occasional arguments that occur on here more.

I think I've done pretty much most things on motorbikes that the average rider would want to do, save for tackling dirt. Also I'm somewhat weary of the potentially licence losing power most of my bikes have had and would prefer a slower pace for a year or so.

Being a complete novice to it, big adventure bikes seem unwise for learning, so a small dual sport or lighter adv is probably better. I've got some mountain (cycling) experience, and can do a pretty sick wheelie if that's relevant at all, and I suspect it's not.

I live near Salisbury plain, so a fair bit of land to practice on. It's not quite the Canadian wilderness, but it'll do.

Budget will be whatever I can cough up without the Mrs getting cross, probably £2k-£3k.

Thanks in advance, as always

[Drabbesttunic]

You could always join the trf and get out greenlaning, little 250 4t enduro bike maybe? It gets old when you have to pick up heavy bikes, well, it gets old picking up 110kg bikes actually
Enduro playdays are good fun too.
Prepare to be knackered

[Alex@POD]

Green laning can be really good fun. I think I prefer it to track days, though I'm not sure I'm ready to let go of the track bike yet.

Get yourself on a course, I've done the Honda Adventure Centre course before and it's a great way to dip your toe in as you get given all the gear you need and you have instructors there to advise. And since most people are very new, you know there won't be any piss-taking taking place!

[s p a c e m a n]

My only question is how you can live near Salisbury Plain and have never tried a bit of green laning.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135613022648?mkcid=16&a...

Buy one of these, it will still be worth £3k if you want to sell it in a couple years so it's basically a free bike. Well that's what I'd tell my wife anyway

[Caddyshack]

s p a c e m a n said:

My only question is how you can live near Salisbury Plain and have never tried a bit of green laning.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135613022648?mkcid=16&a...

Buy one of these, it will still be worth £3k if you want to sell it in a couple years so it's basically a free bike. Well that's what I'd tell my wife anyway

I was told they need expensive engine refreshes, is that the case? (It’s a race bike at heart?)

[Pebbles167]

Drabbesttunic said:

You could always join the trf and get out greenlaning, little 250 4t enduro bike maybe? It gets old when you have to pick up heavy bikes, well, it gets old picking up 110kg bikes actually
Enduro playdays are good fun too.
Prepare to be knackered

No that's exactly what I'm after, just something that isn't flat asphalt really, green laning seems an excellent start and I've still got a bit of strength left yet!

Alex@POD said:

Green laning can be really good fun. I think I prefer it to track days, though I'm not sure I'm ready to let go of the track bike yet.

Get yourself on a course, I've done the Honda Adventure Centre course before and it's a great way to dip your toe in as you get given all the gear you need and you have instructors there to advise. And since most people are very new, you know there won't be any piss-taking taking place!

Did a search for that, the Dave Thorpe place? A colleague has just piped up that he did it, reckons it was fantastic. Thanks for the tip. As for trackdays, this is effectively what I'm looking at to replace them. I had a big off last time out and promised my family no more.

s p a c e m a n said:

My only question is how you can live near Salisbury Plain and have never tried a bit of green laning.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135613022648?mkcid=16&a...

Buy one of these, it will still be worth £3k if you want to sell it in a couple years so it's basically a free bike. Well that's what I'd tell my wife anyway

That looks pretty decent, not to mention a good price. The only thing I'm keen to avoid early on (recommended from others) is full enduro bikes due to the power and servicing schedule being unfit for a newbie, but I don't think the WR250 is quite that in either R or X?

Also, strictly speaking I have driven a lot of Salisbury plain, though seems a lifetime ago now. Wasn't very nimble last time since I was driving one of these would like to have a crack on two wheels.



Thanks for everything so far.

[Gnits]

Being in the UK the most important part is location, Salisbury plain is right at the centre for that. To give you a rough idea this is a nifty map:
bywaymap
It's not all the places you can play off-road but I would say it is the majority.
Kit - you can probably make do with what you have already (assuming its not a full set of leathers) just for the purposes of trying it out, you mostly won't be going as fast off-road.
Bike - you could try blagging a try out on a bike if you know someone with a small dirt bike nearby but there is probably quite a bit of stuff available second hand to buy and they are generally easier to work on that a road bike as there is nothing of them and most stuff is exposed anyway.

I would say the best bet in terms of use of £ would be to find a place that does off-road tuition and do a day or two with them, it will give you a chance to try it out on someone elses bike and get any tips too. I will always recommend 'Inch Perfect' to anyone who will listen, they are trials bikes so are very light and you will be able to get a good idea of what it is like (sadly they are a million miles away from Salisbury Plain but worth the trip).
Phoenix Training looks near you - I have no idea what they are like but it appears on Google maps!

I would not dismiss the ability to wheelie, control of the front wheel like that is really, really useful for getting out of ruts, getting over logs, girls dig them, etc. Bloody wish I could do them!

[Alex@POD]

Pebbles167 said:

Did a search for that, the Dave Thorpe place? A colleague has just piped up that he did it, reckons it was fantastic.

Yes that's the one. I took one of their Africa Twins for the 2 day course as I wanted to improve what I can do on mine, but you can get a CRF300L if you want something smaller.

I was out on my Africa Twin on Salisbury Plain last month, it can be as easy or as tricky as you like!

[Dog Star]

Caddyshack said:

I was told they need expensive engine refreshes, is that the case? (It’s a race bike at heart?)

Do watch out for that - back in 2020 I bought a KTM250 EXCF that was a proper, full-on enduro bike and it was very heavy on maintenance and was not really suited to riding any distance on the road, which meant trailering it. I only used it a couple of times because of this and sold it.

I’ve been doing quite a few trails in Yorks, Lancs and the Peak District on a Tenere 700 which is obviously great for getting there and isn’t too bad on trails, but it’s a big heavy beast on compromised tyres so it’s hard work.

Now looking at a smaller dedicated trail bike - a CRF300 Rally would be nice but expensive - I do like the WR250Fs and they’re pretty bombproof.

[Pebbles167]

Think I'll give the experience days a go, seems quite a lot for your money actually and will likely learn a lot.

After some reviews, it seems the Chinese Voge 300 Rally is a sort of poor man's CRF300, but very similar performance. At £3.5k new might make for a good purchase if I can't find something used in my budget nearby (though I probably should).

I have a Husqvarna main dealer in my town, needless to say all of their stuff is full on enduro, mostly two stroke and very expensive. Too rich for me.

[Caddyshack]

Dog Star said:

Caddyshack said:

I was told they need expensive engine refreshes, is that the case? (It’s a race bike at heart?)

Do watch out for that - back in 2020 I bought a KTM250 EXCF that was a proper, full-on enduro bike and it was very heavy on maintenance and was not really suited to riding any distance on the road, which meant trailering it. I only used it a couple of times because of this and sold it.

I’ve been doing quite a few trails in Yorks, Lancs and the Peak District on a Tenere 700 which is obviously great for getting there and isn’t too bad on trails, but it’s a big heavy beast on compromised tyres so it’s hard work.

Now looking at a smaller dedicated trail bike - a CRF300 Rally would be nice but expensive - I do like the WR250Fs and they’re pretty bombproof.

My friend sold his CRF300 that he had from new and bought an older Husky 250 and he says that is perfect for green laning.

[Crudeoink]

Problem is there isnt one bike that does it all. Some come close but there is always a trade-off. I have an older (2010) KTM 690 that works well for my needs. Not too heavy and extremely capable off-road, with good enough road manners to transit between lanes / adventures and its not so expensive that I wince when it gets dropped or crashed into a bush lol. Salisbury and the surrounding area's has loads of greenlanes so you wouldn't have to do too much riding on the road, so a more dedicated bike would probably work well. As for the fun aspect, absolutely. I got the KTM and sold my road bike because it was just too easy to do mega speed on a capable road bike and found it boring / clunky at lower speeds. I'm having great fun on the KTM at sensible speeds, sure a fall is still going to hurt, but exciting is at 30mph instead of 130mph .....

[s p a c e m a n]

Disclaimer: I've never actually owned one, only borrowed friends and been around them... But from what I know it's just an oil and filter change after every weekend and occasionally check the valve gaps. If you're beating the crap out of them every time that you take them out (tracks ect) then you probably have to be a bit hot on the maintenance, but for green laning an oil change and jet wash on a Sunday afternoon is part of the experience.




One of the boys at work either uses his tiger or wr to commute on so they can't be that bad.....

or he needs two bikes because ones always broken

Edited by s p a c e m a n on Tuesday 11th March 15:29

[Biker9090]

Be aware that the CRF300s suspension is comically undersprung - borderline dangerous if you're heavy - so that has to be budgeted in. I loved the one I rode but would probably go for a Voge 300 (and may well do in a year or two).

[Pebbles167]

Biker9090 said:

Be aware that the CRF300s suspension is comically undersprung - borderline dangerous if you're heavy - so that has to be budgeted in. I loved the one I rode but would probably go for a Voge 300 (and may well do in a year or two).

Yes I'd heard that, many reviewers recommended an immediate upgrade. I'm 5'8" and about 70kg so unlikely to encounter big problems in that regard, but also another reason I don't want something too heavy.

[GriffoDP]

Pebbles167 said:

Think I'll give the experience days a go, seems quite a lot for your money actually and will likely learn a lot.

After some reviews, it seems the Chinese Voge 300 Rally is a sort of poor man's CRF300, but very similar performance. At £3.5k new might make for a good purchase if I can't find something used in my budget nearby (though I probably should).

I have a Husqvarna main dealer in my town, needless to say all of their stuff is full on enduro, mostly two stroke and very expensive. Too rich for me.

I have a somewhat fettled CRF250 Rally thing. I wouldn't want to go any more poor man than its build .

I started this whole affair by doing a BMW Offroad Skills weekend in Wales on a R1250GS. Then managed to sign up for a week with them in Portugal on the 1300 before my wallet snapped shut. Was great fun but I ended up with the CRF due to above mentioned weight and I didn't want to spend lots. Rest of my group had a mix of mid displacement stuff, but so far I always lead so my 25hp or so isn't too much of a problem ha.

Our first local trip was to Salisbury last summer. Nice place to practice (apart from someone riding into a flooded tank ditch thing)!

[Moulder]

Pebbles167 said:

Biker9090 said:

Be aware that the CRF300s suspension is comically undersprung - borderline dangerous if you're heavy - so that has to be budgeted in. I loved the one I rode but would probably go for a Voge 300 (and may well do in a year or two).

Yes I'd heard that, many reviewers recommended an immediate upgrade. I'm 5'8" and about 70kg so unlikely to encounter big problems in that regard, but also another reason I don't want something too heavy.

Something that might be an issue then is seat height.

One thing I never see mentioned about green laning but seems prevalent is other people's attitudes. Not sure I have ever done anything else which is perfectly legal but you're looked upon as Jimmy Savile's slightly more deviant brother. Riding considerately and being polite doesn't even seem to dent their armour.

[littleredrooster]

Some of the most fun I've had on two wheels was trail-riding, but I'll temper that by saying that this was back in the early 80s before all the RUPPs were downgraded to Bridleways and all vehicles were banned.

We used to go to the Yorshire Dales and Northumberland, both of which had a vast array of lanes/tracks and we very rarely saw anyone else on our jaunts, so it really got my goat when the horsey crowd and the Ramblers Association had so much clout with those in 'power' that they managed to get us excluded from something they never used!

Almost all our little group had 250 four-strokes (mine was a KL250) except one brave lad on a KDX200 which wanted to wheelspin and wheelie everywhere. The best tool for the job seemed to be the Honda 250 (was it the XR250?) which had loads of chunk-chunk for the boggy bits, but revved like a 2-stroke on the quicker bits.

[Bob_Defly]

It's more fun. I've done lots of different types of riding and find off-road the most fun, more so than track days.

I started by just having a go at a demo day in 2017, had never ridden on dirt before, and it was super muddy / slushy.





So I bought this CRF250L on the way home, same day!



It was mint, I rode it for three years and then sold it for what I paid for it. Absolutely wonderful bike, and great for first time off-roaders.






Then upgraded to a KTM 300 XCW (another great bike), and got my son a Yamaha TTR230 so we could ride together.




Then I added a Tiger 900 RP so I could ride on regular roads too, did a lot of exploring on that.




Then I sold both the KTM and the Tiger and got a CRF450RL, as I wanted something road legal and that could do singletrack. Love it.






I just find off road riding so cathartic and relaxing. You can go lots of places, test your abilities, and fall off without hurting yourself too much. I don't race, I try technical stuff and go exploring. I'll never stop riding on dirt. Sometimes picking up 300lbs upside down on a steep slope can be draining though, not gonna lie!

P.S. I started when I was 42, so it's never too late.

[Kawasicki]

Dog Star said:

Caddyshack said:

I was told they need expensive engine refreshes, is that the case? (It’s a race bike at heart?)

Do watch out for that - back in 2020 I bought a KTM250 EXCF that was a proper, full-on enduro bike and it was very heavy on maintenance and was not really suited to riding any distance on the road, which meant trailering it. I only used it a couple of times because of this and sold it.

I’ve been doing quite a few trails in Yorks, Lancs and the Peak District on a Tenere 700 which is obviously great for getting there and isn’t too bad on trails, but it’s a big heavy beast on compromised tyres so it’s hard work.

Now looking at a smaller dedicated trail bike - a CRF300 Rally would be nice but expensive - I do like the WR250Fs and they’re pretty bombproof.

I rode a KTM 525 EXC for a few years on trails in the forest at the weekend, and I used the bike to commute to work and back also… a 60 mile round trip.

It was friggin awesome fun. The bike was perfectly reliable, despite everyone and his dog telling me that the road use would kill it!