Speeduino install update.

Speeduino install update.

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Discussion

Fenderer

Original Poster:

107 posts

79 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
Belle427 said:
I can check my old cars file later but are you happy the tps is calibrated and the settings such as required fuel are all correct?
Did you generate the ve table or is it a base map provided by someone?
Yep, TPS is calibrated. VE table came from a typical Rover V8 base map that was on the Canems website but to be honest I'm only really working around idle currently and I've already leaned this out a lot to get a sensible AFR. I started around 35 and had to reduce to 28 in the cells around idle speed.

Required fuel looks good. I calculated 16m/s based on my injectors (Opel V6 Bosch) which have a flow rate of 202cc/min.


I'm not currently running an idle control valve which I don't think is helping. It revs fine if you go very slowly but if you blip hard it stutters badly, leans right out and wants to stall. It's almost as if Acceleration enrichment isn't working at all. So maybe I'm just being too conservative with the curve.

Yeah would be good to see your settings. Thanks.

Belle427

6,175 posts

210 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
Send me a message via email and I will send you my base file provided to me and a road created map, you should be able to open it just to view it but it is Megasquirt/Tunerstudio.
Mine was mapped on the road using Tps (AlphaN) as it was the choice of the tuner, it felt more responsive to me to be honest as I did try using map myself.
Its for a 400 but the settings may help you.

Edited by Belle427 on Wednesday 11th May 06:39


Edited by Belle427 on Wednesday 11th May 06:40

geordiepingu

260 posts

38 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
If you are running without an idle control valve, have you got the ports all blanked off to stop the vacuum leak?

You will be on forever tuning AE if you are doing it by AFR. The trick is to keep richening it until it stops bogging down, then data log it to fine tune it, where you can calculate and see the lambda delay.

That said, before you tune acceleration enrichment, you should work on getting your fuelling closer. The autotune function in TunerStudio can help get the figures roughly where they want to be for the likes of fast idle etc before you fine tune the table by hand. Once you are happy that it's at a reasonable AFR in that load cell, you will find tuning acceleration enrichment a lot easier.

Another tip for setting up your fuelling, you will find it easier if you disable EGO control at first.

steveo3002

9,399 posts

151 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
id go with some autotuning first ...warm it up and start autotune and give it a few revs , hold it at 1100,1200 and so on let it work a bit

i never got on well with a/e as said go by ear for now

Belle427

6,175 posts

210 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
I'd be interested to learn about Ego control, A tuner who was well respected didn't enable it on mine and I'm wondering why that was.
Is it not that important on a weekend sports car or does it try to make too many adjustments?
I understand it may be beneficial for cruising speeds at steady rpm.
I did experiment with it and left it disabled under 1200rpm.

steveo3002

9,399 posts

151 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
no reason not to use it imo

if nothing else you can eyeball it and see if your tune is 5% off or 0.5% off and sort it out if need be

Fenderer

Original Poster:

107 posts

79 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
Belle427 said:
Send me a message via email and I will send you my base file provided to me and a road created map, you should be able to open it just to view it but it is Megasquirt/Tunerstudio.
Mine was mapped on the road using Tps (AlphaN) as it was the choice of the tuner, it felt more responsive to me to be honest as I did try using map myself.
Its for a 400 but the settings may help you.
Thanks! mine is a 400HC so won't be far away. Just sent you a message.

Fenderer

Original Poster:

107 posts

79 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
geordiepingu said:
If you are running without an idle control valve, have you got the ports all blanked off to stop the vacuum leak?

You will be on forever tuning AE if you are doing it by AFR. The trick is to keep richening it until it stops bogging down, then data log it to fine tune it, where you can calculate and see the lambda delay.

That said, before you tune acceleration enrichment, you should work on getting your fuelling closer. The autotune function in TunerStudio can help get the figures roughly where they want to be for the likes of fast idle etc before you fine tune the table by hand. Once you are happy that it's at a reasonable AFR in that load cell, you will find tuning acceleration enrichment a lot easier.

Another tip for setting up your fuelling, you will find it easier if you disable EGO control at first.
Yep all ports blanked off, in fact I'm pulling 30kPA at idle which I think is pretty impressive as a manifold vacuum.

EGO disabled at the moment. I did think that might just confuse the issue so left it off.

Autotune does sound like the next step to be honest.

steveo3002

9,399 posts

151 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
yeah ego control can be the last thing you set up

ric355

212 posts

126 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
A quick note to those who have MS2 and are talking about various features being discussed here (e.g. EGO control): Speeduino is not the same as MS2 (the firmware is completely different), and so stuff that works well on MS2 may not be as effective on Speedy. So just bear that in mind when discussing things.

With regards to idle MAP, I'm surprised you've got it as low as 30kpa. Mine idles at 45-50kpa although I'm idling it relatively lean when hot as I don't like the smell of a rich idle.

For the relay pulse generator, I put mine into the original tach wire on the original connector and it worked fine (white Caerbont tacho). You obviously need to extract the coil from the relay entirely for your final solution; there should be no mechanical parts left.

For Accel enrichment, I think the graph you've got is not adding any fuel. In fact I think it is taking fuel out. This is because in multiply mode the numbers are percentages so a value of, say, 85 means "take 85% of the pulse width" rather than "turn the pulse with up to 185%". You either need to alter the graph or change the type to Adder instead. You can verify if I'm correct by taking a data log and looking at the pulsewidth when you pump the throttle. I'm running an earlier version of firmware at the moment which doesn't have the PW Multiplier option, so I can't check this for you. Incidentally, learning to read the logs is important - it will guide you a lot.

Autotune is not very good for idle tuning - stay away from it in that region (fast idle no problem).

The closed loop stepper idle control works but again it is not very good for maintaining the idle speed because the stepper motor isn't fast enough for the PID control loop, so stick to open loop idle control when you get the stepper running, or update to a bosch style PWM based valve. I would recommend getting the stepper working sooner rather than later otherwise you'll have to retune certain things once you've added it.

Req_fuel looks fine at 16ms. Mine is a bit higher (20ms IIRC) but I'm still on the original 180cc injectors and a 4.5 engine.

For accel enrichment you want the taper to start a bit higher - I have mine tapering from 3000 to 4000rpm. My pulse time is set to 130ms for what it's worth, but the amount you add/multiply drastically affects the appropriate value here so you should do your own thing.

You will get best response from the 'instantaneous' MAP setting. It seems to work fine with the large plenum on the RV8. But you need to make sure you can run without any filtering and still have good signal. I have been wanting to try TPS for load at some point to see if it runs better but it's just a big job to change it over and I can't motivate myself to do it. Theoretically MAP is a better estimate of load under certain conditions but I don't want to start a debate about it.


Fenderer

Original Poster:

107 posts

79 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
ric355 said:
A quick note to those who have MS2 and are talking about various features being discussed here (e.g. EGO control): Speeduino is not the same as MS2 (the firmware is completely different), and so stuff that works well on MS2 may not be as effective on Speedy. So just bear that in mind when discussing things.

With regards to idle MAP, I'm surprised you've got it as low as 30kpa. Mine idles at 45-50kpa although I'm idling it relatively lean when hot as I don't like the smell of a rich idle.

For the relay pulse generator, I put mine into the original tach wire on the original connector and it worked fine (white Caerbont tacho). You obviously need to extract the coil from the relay entirely for your final solution; there should be no mechanical parts left.

For Accel enrichment, I think the graph you've got is not adding any fuel. In fact I think it is taking fuel out. This is because in multiply mode the numbers are percentages so a value of, say, 85 means "take 85% of the pulse width" rather than "turn the pulse with up to 185%". You either need to alter the graph or change the type to Adder instead. You can verify if I'm correct by taking a data log and looking at the pulsewidth when you pump the throttle. I'm running an earlier version of firmware at the moment which doesn't have the PW Multiplier option, so I can't check this for you. Incidentally, learning to read the logs is important - it will guide you a lot.

Autotune is not very good for idle tuning - stay away from it in that region (fast idle no problem).

The closed loop stepper idle control works but again it is not very good for maintaining the idle speed because the stepper motor isn't fast enough for the PID control loop, so stick to open loop idle control when you get the stepper running, or update to a bosch style PWM based valve. I would recommend getting the stepper working sooner rather than later otherwise you'll have to retune certain things once you've added it.

Req_fuel looks fine at 16ms. Mine is a bit higher (20ms IIRC) but I'm still on the original 180cc injectors and a 4.5 engine.

For accel enrichment you want the taper to start a bit higher - I have mine tapering from 3000 to 4000rpm. My pulse time is set to 130ms for what it's worth, but the amount you add/multiply drastically affects the appropriate value here so you should do your own thing.

You will get best response from the 'instantaneous' MAP setting. It seems to work fine with the large plenum on the RV8. But you need to make sure you can run without any filtering and still have good signal. I have been wanting to try TPS for load at some point to see if it runs better but it's just a big job to change it over and I can't motivate myself to do it. Theoretically MAP is a better estimate of load under certain conditions but I don't want to start a debate about it.
Brilliant!! Thanks ric355. This is really useful. I think you may have found the reason why the engine dies when revving. Will change the Accel enrich settings and set up a log this time. 2 wire PWM valve on the way so best get this installed quick before I go too much further.

Belle427

6,175 posts

210 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
There is a channel on you tube called DC WERX, he does some speeduino tuning tutorials worth a watch, a bit basic and mostly Japanese stuff but still interesting.

ric355

212 posts

126 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
Belle427 said:
There is a channel on you tube called DC WERX, he does some speeduino tuning tutorials worth a watch, a bit basic and mostly Japanese stuff but still interesting.
He can also be found in the speeduino facebook group (he's one of the moderators I think) and on the discord channel.

Belle427

6,175 posts

210 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
Looks like some good kit though I've got a Mk1 mx 5 project on the go and their pnp packages look good value.

Fenderer

Original Poster:

107 posts

79 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
Yeah I've been watching his vids. Really useful stuff. He did a great one on Accel Enrichment.

ICV has just arrived so will get that plumbed in tomorrow and start again on the idle tuning.

Thanks for your help guys!

Fenderer

Original Poster:

107 posts

79 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
OK, very frustrating day.

I got the Acceleration enrichment working it was just as you said ric355 the curve was working upside down.

It was revving beautifully from idle...... then something happened.

Suddenly the AFR shot to 21. Running dreadfully lean and won't idle at all and will barely start. I thought I'd run out of fuel but dipped the tank and still have 5 inches of fuel left. (Gauge isn't reliable under 1/4)

I just can't do anything with it....All the gauges are still working correctly, Trigger wheel working OK etc. But it's now suddenly massively under-fuelling despite no changes to the VE table.

Totally confused.

Edited by Fenderer on Friday 13th May 18:04

Belle427

6,175 posts

210 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
Maybe check the fuel pressure is all good first and the pump is being commanded ok.

Fenderer

Original Poster:

107 posts

79 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
Looks like there is an issue withe supply to the fuel pump as I've got no voltage at all at the terminals of the pump and it now won't prime.

Pin 87 of the fuel pump relay is only showing 7.3v when the pump is trying to prime, so either the ECU isn't grounding the fuel pin correctly or there's a massive voltage drop to the pump.

Belle427

6,175 posts

210 months

Saturday 14th May
quotequote all
At least you know what it is, I'd recommend re wiring the fuel pump circuit as it has far too many connectors in it.
Far easier to run a new 2 core cable to it and give it a good ground from the battery.
Not sure how much of the Tvr wiring your using but most of it is junk.

ric355

212 posts

126 months

Sunday 15th May
quotequote all
Fenderer said:
Looks like there is an issue withe supply to the fuel pump as I've got no voltage at all at the terminals of the pump and it now won't prime.

Pin 87 of the fuel pump relay is only showing 7.3v when the pump is trying to prime, so either the ECU isn't grounding the fuel pin correctly or there's a massive voltage drop to the pump.
I'm not clear how much of the original loom you still have. For my installation I have the original loom still in tact right down to the OEM 14CUX connector, and thus I had to engineer a way to ensure that the OEM main relay is turned on when the ignition key is activated. Without that, you get no supply to the fuel pump relay.