Porsche GT3 to Radical RXC

Porsche GT3 to Radical RXC

Author
Discussion

acey81

Original Poster:

157 posts

69 months

Monday 16th September 2019
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After doing a summary of this years track days and running costs I've come to the conclusion that I might need to change the 991.2 GT3 to something a bit more suited to track use. I have mainly used to the car to/from and on track, this year and the running costs of tracking hard have become apparent this year.

So I've started to look at options for next year, and after ruling out the Caterham and Ariel Atom for different reasons I've ended up looking for a Radical and more specifically an RXC V6. With little information available about the ownership experience I've come to Pistonheads for guidance.

So why an RXC? Well, for the foreseeable future I have to live in the city. I won't have space for a trailer to take it to and from the track, so it will be driven. The car will do few miles outside of going to and from the track, so the ride quality or other comfort issues won't bother me.

So how will the running costs compare to a GT3? Tires, brakes and the consumables should last longer due to the weight and hopefully also be cheaper than Porsche OEM parts. The engine (380 version) should be easy to maintain, but I'm slightly worried about the gearbox.

Any other input and advice would be much appreciated.

Racingroj

480 posts

122 months

Monday 16th September 2019
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Hi
I had an RXC built and owned it for 2 years and did about 6,000 miles mainly on the road. Regarding the gearbox I would recommend you get one with the 6 speed not the 7 speed. They went to 6 speed because of one or two failures with the 7 speed. I found the only problem was the type of clutch that they are using. You might not have a problem because it will be more track focused. I found that it was too ‘on/off’ like most motorsport type clutches, and I have quite a bit of experience with them in other road and racing type vehicles. I had to have a new one fitted at 4,000 miles by the factory. If possible get one with the Bosch ABS and Traction Control fitted. Slicks and racing wets for the track. For the road Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 for the road. Don’t rule out using it on the road especially when you go on those Sunday drives with your mates in their Supercars. You will get just as much fun on the public roads without breaking the speed limit either. I did the NC500 in mine, 1200 miles in 5 days and believe it or not the seats are the most comfortable I have had in any car. Just set the dampers 10 clicks from fully soft or even fully soft. You will have to set the ride height differently for the road and track.
Overall the RXC is a mind blowing car particularly on the track. Any half decent driver won’t be passed by anything else all day.
If you need any other mire detailed info please pm me. I have a detailed information sheet as well.

BertBert

14,296 posts

170 months

Tuesday 17th September 2019
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Presumably if the op is driving to the circuit in it, he'll have to run road tyres unless he's got a support vehicle?

Not sure how they'll fare on track? Probably ok I guess.

Bert

acey81

Original Poster:

157 posts

69 months

Wednesday 18th September 2019
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Racingroj said:
Hi
I had an RXC built and owned it for 2 years and did about 6,000 miles mainly on the road. Regarding the gearbox I would recommend you get one with the 6 speed not the 7 speed. They went to 6 speed because of one or two failures with the 7 speed. I found the only problem was the type of clutch that they are using. You might not have a problem because it will be more track-focused. I found that it was too ‘on/off’ like most motorsport type clutches, and I have quite a bit of experience with them in other road and racing type vehicles. I had to have a new one fitted at 4,000 miles by the factory. If possible get one with the Bosch ABS and Traction Control fitted. Slicks and racing wets for the track. For the road Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 for the road. Don’t rule out using it on the road especially when you go on those Sunday drives with your mates in their Supercars. You will get just as much fun on the public roads without breaking the speed limit either. I did the NC500 in mine, 1200 miles in 5 days and believe it or not the seats are the most comfortable I have had in any car. Just set the dampers 10 clicks from fully soft or even fully soft. You will have to set the ride height differently for the road and track.
Overall the RXC is a mind blowing car particularly on the track. Any half decent driver won’t be passed by anything else all day.
If you need any other mire detailed info please pm me. I have a detailed information sheet as well.
Excellent information, thanks! I find it a bit strange that the (few) RXC that I've found for sale are without the ABS / TC system from Bosch. Should maybe have been standard on the road-legal cars.

I'm seeing the dealer in a couple of weeks, and he has arranged a test drive in the RXC and also the "new" SR1 for comparison. Now the SR1isnt road legal, but they have a quite compelling proposition with storing, racing and 25 "supported" track days so he thinks he might be able to tempt me. I'll have a go.

Again, thanks for the feedback!


JayK12

2,044 posts

161 months

Wednesday 25th September 2019
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acey81 said:
Racingroj said:
Hi
I had an RXC built and owned it for 2 years and did about 6,000 miles mainly on the road. Regarding the gearbox I would recommend you get one with the 6 speed not the 7 speed. They went to 6 speed because of one or two failures with the 7 speed. I found the only problem was the type of clutch that they are using. You might not have a problem because it will be more track-focused. I found that it was too ‘on/off’ like most motorsport type clutches, and I have quite a bit of experience with them in other road and racing type vehicles. I had to have a new one fitted at 4,000 miles by the factory. If possible get one with the Bosch ABS and Traction Control fitted. Slicks and racing wets for the track. For the road Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 for the road. Don’t rule out using it on the road especially when you go on those Sunday drives with your mates in their Supercars. You will get just as much fun on the public roads without breaking the speed limit either. I did the NC500 in mine, 1200 miles in 5 days and believe it or not the seats are the most comfortable I have had in any car. Just set the dampers 10 clicks from fully soft or even fully soft. You will have to set the ride height differently for the road and track.
Overall the RXC is a mind blowing car particularly on the track. Any half decent driver won’t be passed by anything else all day.
If you need any other mire detailed info please pm me. I have a detailed information sheet as well.
Excellent information, thanks! I find it a bit strange that the (few) RXC that I've found for sale are without the ABS / TC system from Bosch. Should maybe have been standard on the road-legal cars.

I'm seeing the dealer in a couple of weeks, and he has arranged a test drive in the RXC and also the "new" SR1 for comparison. Now the SR1isnt road legal, but they have a quite compelling proposition with storing, racing and 25 "supported" track days so he thinks he might be able to tempt me. I'll have a go.

Again, thanks for the feedback!
Many race teams will store a radical and bring it to track days for you. Ifs its just going to be track day use then I can't think of better way of letting a race team run it and you turn up and drive. Tim Gray Motorsport, Valour Racing, Raw Motorsport, Breaknell Racing, RJ Motorsport. All worth a shout.

I do it the hard way though and trailer my SR3.

BertBert

14,296 posts

170 months

Wednesday 25th September 2019
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JayK12 said:
Many race teams will store a radical and bring it to track days for you. Ifs its just going to be track day use then I can't think of better way of letting a race team run it and you turn up and drive. Tim Gray Motorsport, Valour Racing, Raw Motorsport, Breaknell Racing, RJ Motorsport. All worth a shout.

I do it the hard way though and trailer my SR3.
It just seems a bit overkill for track days to me. Go racing instead.

Gc285

1,215 posts

152 months

Thursday 26th September 2019
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Sr1 is a great car, but tight for trackdays if you want passengers, sr3 far better for trackdays.

Order66

6,365 posts

208 months

Thursday 26th September 2019
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JayK12 said:
Many race teams will store a radical and bring it to track days for you. Ifs its just going to be track day use then I can't think of better way of letting a race team run it and you turn up and drive. Tim Gray Motorsport, Valour Racing, Raw Motorsport, Breaknell Racing, RJ Motorsport. All worth a shout.

I do it the hard way though and trailer my SR3.
Agree with this - to be able to drive the RXC there you'll have to compromise its capability significantly and it's a very expensive thing to compromise. It's also a lot of grief - Radicals aren't built to normal production car standards, you need someone looking after it with the spanners.

Don't know the current prices of RXC but imagine for less than half the price you could buy and have someone else prepping, storing and delivering a SR3 to the track of your choice - and you'll go much faster than a compromised RXC would (and indeed anything else on the trackday of your choice).

I did the same as you - about 15yrs ago I was tracking a GT3 and one year I added up the costs, so I shifted to Caterham style cars for about a decade then ended up in the Radical - I'm glad I did it that way as my driving definitely wasn't up to a Radical when I stepped out of the GT3. I now race and do track days and the Radical is the best thing I've ever driven - if it wasn't for Radical as a company and their idiotic parts pricing and policies I may have bought another.

To add another company to the list for storing/maintaining - my car was previously prepped by Corinium motorsport and they did a fine job.

waky

19 posts

31 months

Monday 30th September 2019
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I couldn't agree more with Jay and Order.

5 years ago I was thinking like you. I want the meanest machine to drive on the road and on track, a radical SR8, my ultimated dream within range.

Now 5 years later I do have an SR8, but not road legal. And I'm quite happy about it, cause I cannot imagine myself driving the thing on the road. The clutch is just knife-sharp, you cannot end-up queing anywhere, and especially not on a hill, cause you will burn it up. Then there is the ride-height, impossible to take a speed bump with mine. Unless of course you compromise, but then you sacrifice on track, which I can imagine is not a shame, since you will be the fastest anyway. But you will lack a lot of grip and downforce.
Also when I want to drive my SR8, I need to start heating up the coolant and the engine oil, 30 minutes prior to driving it. Again not sure if the V6 needs this.

In the end it will be a lot cheaper to track hard in compare to your GT3 and it will scare the hell out of you when you floor the throttle :-D.

waky

19 posts

31 months

Monday 30th September 2019
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acey81 said:
So why an RXC? Well, for the foreseeable future I have to live in the city. I won't have space for a trailer to take it to and from the track, so it will be driven. The car will do few miles outside of going to and from the track, so the ride quality or other comfort issues won't bother me.
Make sure you can enter/leave your garage without much hassle.

gordonc

260 posts

211 months

Wednesday 2nd October 2019
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Like Order66 i too used 996 gt3 RS for track events (total porsche nut) great car bought trailer to keep milage down .. then the value of them went up !! always wanted a cup car .. bought 997 cup .. most expensive car to run !!! then my friend purchased a Radical .. what a blast..few months later sold cup car(best thing ive done} bought a Radical sr3rs what a fab car and cheap to run & easy to maintain just a great track car ..now going into my 3rd year of ownership and only thing id buy would be a newer one .. But RXC will be mind blowing performance but id think it would be expensive to maintain esp if engine and gearbox need rebuilds and Radicals 400%markup on spare parts + depreciation ... reminds me the expensive running costs of my ex cup car ... as previously mentioned plenty teams will look after ur car and take it to track Radical are having a trial day at Silverstone on mon 7th Oct might be worth calling them and try out our the various models ..u might be surprised

Racingroj

480 posts

122 months

Wednesday 2nd October 2019
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Most Radicals need regular engine rebuilds but not the RXC. For road use an oil change is every 10,000 miles. When racing you would probably change the oil and filter between races. The Ford V6 is chosen because of its strength and reliability. This is the engine and twin turbo setup found in the new Ford GT. Because the RXC is built as a racing car all the components are designed to be pushed to the max without problems except wear and tear. I’ve owned four Radicals now of which I raced two. Clubsport, Prosport, SR3 and the RXC. Don’t be afraid of the RXC and just to say I got as much enjoyment out of it on the road as on the track. The highlight of mty road trips was the NC500 which was absolutely amazing and the car on long distances is amazingly comfortable with the correct damper settings. The only thing for road use you will need is a set of Bose noise cancelling headphones. Connect these to your iPhone or iPad for music, satnav, camera alerts (via an app) and phone calls (microphone available on the internet for the Bose) and you are good to go. Any further questions please ask.

acey81

Original Poster:

157 posts

69 months

Saturday 5th October 2019
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Thanks for all the great insights, seems like there are quite a few people who have gone from Porsche and track days to Radical.

So I've been busy the last couple of weeks doing man maths. I was invited down to drive the new SR1 by my dealer and fell in love. The sensation of speed, the raw driving sensation and the feeling of being "one" with the machine. I can't imagine how an SR3 with full slicks and the diffusor drive, but I'd imagine it is quite something else. But really liked how friendly the 1 was. Even in the wet/dry conditions, it was never terrifying.

The cost of having it stored and looked after by Radical is roughly the same as the cost of insurance on the GT3. The facilities are located on a track which I would have access to something like 48 days per season. They also take the car to different track days and follow the Radical Cup around. If you don't compete you get to do a normal track day instead. So all of this is very tempting. The running costs seem to be reasonable. Cheap tires, pads, and discs. The highest cost as I could see is the need to rebuild the engine every 45-50 hours of running.

My thinking now is to go down this route. The dealer tells me to buy new for a peace of mind, but I will explore this further (not many "new" SR1s available on the second-hand market).

So the RXC seems to have slipped away a bit. I might still miss the accessibility of a road-going car. Does anyone know the running costs on the RXC vs the SR1? What kind of maintenance does it need? I'm guessing that the Ford V6 is reliable and doesn't need rebuilding. What about the gearbox? Other components?

Thanks!



Edited by acey81 on Saturday 5th October 08:28

mark4

20 posts

102 months

Saturday 5th October 2019
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I've never driven an SR1, but drove several SR3's before buying an SR8.

The 8 is truly 'terrifying' and a massive bump over the SR3 but my god it's exciting. It's automotive freebasing and I absolutely love it. If I'm honest, an SR3 is more than enough car for me, but I know I would always be pining for that 10.5K RPM V8. It's a truly special thing.

My instructor does a lot of test driving for Radical and really doesn't rate the RXC over Radical's lighter offerings. I've not driven one, but I understand while being rocket-like in a straight line, it is leaden in braking and corners - exactly where the lighter models shine.

In your position, I would take used SR3 RSX with engine refresh - preferably from Radicals used program - over a SR1. Not for a second knocking the SR1 - a moderately well driven SR1 will still run rings around pretty much anything on a typical trackday, but in my mind once your confidence increases - you may find yourself wanting to trade up. It also depends over whether you plan to race it. If you are a novice, the SR1 with the SR1 Cup race program, will probably be a better option.

That said, I'd love a Porsche GT3 Cup - but I'd be more likely to drop the money into a used LMP3.

Do it. You know you'll make the maths work, even if they dont...




JayK12

2,044 posts

161 months

Monday 7th October 2019
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I had the same thinking as you, go SR1. I ended up getting an SR3 from Performance Time. Their cars are really well prepped and plenty of support and info. I run the SR3 myself and its not particularly difficult, and seems pretty reliable. Personally I'd go second hand SR3 everytime.

acey81

Original Poster:

157 posts

69 months

Tuesday 8th October 2019
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JayK12 said:
I had the same thinking as you, go SR1. I ended up getting an SR3 from Performance Time. Their cars are really well prepped and plenty of support and info. I run the SR3 myself and its not particularly difficult, and seems pretty reliable. Personally I'd go second hand SR3 everytime.
Good to hear, I'm actually looking at an SR3 from Performance Time now. Trying to get my head around the running costs, and the difference in performance / maintenance between the 1340 cc and 1500 cc engines. If you have any insights into the running costs I'm eager to hear.

From what I gather the normal consumables such as discs and pads, hold up extremely well and maybe and can last for several seasons. I guess the main issue is the engine rebuilds which I guess would occur once every season or every other season.

acey81

Original Poster:

157 posts

69 months

Tuesday 8th October 2019
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Racer42 said:
The SR3 is a great choice. If you want to do some research on them you should check out the “SR3 Buyers Guide”. Here is a link. https://radicalsportscarregistry.com/radical-sr3-b...
Thank you, extremely helpful!

Order66

6,365 posts

208 months

Tuesday 8th October 2019
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acey81 said:
Good to hear, I'm actually looking at an SR3 from Performance Time now. Trying to get my head around the running costs, and the difference in performance / maintenance between the 1340 cc and 1500 cc engines. If you have any insights into the running costs I'm eager to hear.

From what I gather the normal consumables such as discs and pads, hold up extremely well and maybe and can last for several seasons. I guess the main issue is the engine rebuilds which I guess would occur once every season or every other season.
Just do your due diligence there - while I didn't buy a Radical, I did buy another vehicle from him and he was less than 100% straight with it. As with all small dealers - treat it like a private sale and you won't get burnt. On the positive side I suspect he was using Neil@Corinium motorsport to prepare the cars - Neil prepped mine before I bought it in a private sale and it was 100%.

acey81

Original Poster:

157 posts

69 months

Wednesday 9th October 2019
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Order66 said:
Just do your due diligence there - while I didn't buy a Radical, I did buy another vehicle from him and he was less than 100% straight with it. As with all small dealers - treat it like a private sale and you won't get burnt. On the positive side I suspect he was using Neil@Corinium motorsport to prepare the cars - Neil prepped mine before I bought it in a private sale and it was 100%.
Thanks for the heads up, and since I'm not in the UK I will have to figure something out before going to pick up the car (if it turns out clean). But they seem to have some sort of arrangement with the Radical Factory since they seem to be the biggest resellers of Radicals outside of the factory?

I'm still working my way through the costs and other things associated with ownership so I'm not in a huge hurry considering it won't see the track until April next year...

dh00065p

82 posts

123 months

Wednesday 9th October 2019
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I used to do track days with a friend in our road cars but then we decided to jointly by a track prepared Porsche which was very light and huge fun.
Next we decided to go even more track focused and bought a Radical clubsport which was by comparison sensational.
We have followed this with firstly an early SR3 and now a later SR3RS.
Each one was an upgrade both in power and the aero which was a great learning curve.
The first two Radicals I prepared myself but as we are now a consortium of four owners we have opted to have the car run by a professional team ( so much easier )
Doing the preparation yourself is enjoyable but does take time to do properly and safely.
In ten years now of running Radicals we have only failed to finish a track day three times due to mechanical failures one clutch and two gearboxes and twice due to our own preparation error.

Having the car run for you by an expert means that any problems on the day are easily sorted there an then by someone who knows the cars well.
As regards costs these have not been extreme as if you are not racing in a Radical championship you can source parts and tyres outside of the factory which saves money.
We have used two teams to run the car firstly Puremotion Motorsport until the owner emigrated and now MJ Tech who are based in Bicester. They are mostly ex F1 mechanics who have got fed up with the continuous travel of F1 but from their attention to detail when preparing and running the car shows where they learnt their trade.
I am sure you will enjoy running a radical and look forward to seeing you out on track one day.
David.