RE: F Off!

RE: F Off!

Wednesday 5th June 2002

F Off!

The F Type is no more. Does this also signal the end of Jaguar as we knew it?


Author
Discussion

Twin Turbo

Original Poster:

5,544 posts

223 months

Wednesday 5th June 2002
quotequote all
Excellent rant Robert. I'm with you on this one. I can't believe how short-sited Jaguar/Ford are being on this one.

Jaguar's are so reverred partly (mostly, in my case) due to their history of making ground breaking and beautiful sportscars. People will by an X-Type over a Mondeo because of the assosciations of the glorious past Jaguar has.

Do Ford really think future generations will be turned on by diesels and estates?

I can only hope that the XK replacement is worthy of carrying Jaguars sporting crown.

As much as I love F1, Jaguar to me should be GT racing. Ditch the 50million dollar budget and get back to Le Mans. The 40million leftovers can then be funnelled into the F-Type project again.

tuscan't

55 posts

226 months

Wednesday 5th June 2002
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The appetite for a Jaguar sports car could be significantly enhanced if the marque is seen to be performing well on the F1 track.

So, could Ford/Jag be waiting for a couple of years, in the knowledge that by then they'll hopefully be in a much better position in the points table. Then, hey presto out comes a brand new Jaguar sports car, riding on the wave of euphoria - with a premium image and price tag to match?

cerbman

565 posts

235 months

Wednesday 5th June 2002
quotequote all
A good report. Just one point though, although Jaguar hadn't recovered from its low of 1980 it was recovering before Ford took over in 1989.

Twin Turbo

Original Poster:

5,544 posts

223 months

Wednesday 5th June 2002
quotequote all
Jeees....I don't wanna wait THAT long for a Jaguar sportscar

go-go

193 posts

225 months

Wednesday 5th June 2002
quotequote all
It was a nice try. Now, Jaguar seems to me an ordinary shitbox car maker. I was even tempted to buy an X-type. No more. Aleluja Sir. Lyons

danmangt40

296 posts

241 months

Wednesday 5th June 2002
quotequote all
ok, you're right, the F-type would have been sweet... a relatively minimalist sports car. But don't blame ford. If it wasn't for Ford, I'm sure jaguar would still embody all those crappy things that the name meant back in the 80's. To look at the good work that Ford has done, compare the xk8 to the xjs, and the current xj8/R to the old xj12s.... no comparison, jaguar it is a rejeuvenated player in the real world. Ok, so maybe the X-type isn't a 3-series, but Ford was out to increase output using a reliable platform, which, had it been as successful as originally envisioned, would have made the case for the f-type less of a risk. As for other reasons why jaguar can't make the decisions Porsche does, its only b/c they are so heavily integrated into a tremendous corporation that not stepping on other divisions' toes is difficult. Now while clearly aston's AM305 won't be a boxster-like mid-engined cat anymore, and more like a sporty, small DB7, you can imagine how at the outset, jag could've gotten tied into using a shared platform, decreasing product focus in the name of cost-management. Until Jag is cranking out some porsche-profits, don't expect them to waver much from their existing products. (The boxster and carrera were virtually identical at the front, remember?) A stripped out replacement to the XK is about as close to a jag sports car as any of us are likely to see in the next decade, at least in my opinion.

torve

14 posts

225 months

Wednesday 5th June 2002
quotequote all
The creation of Britsh Leland was the end of Jaguar as we know it.

McNab

1,627 posts

231 months

Wednesday 5th June 2002
quotequote all
Shame, and the article didn't pick up on the fate of the X Type R, also dropped.

I wish I had experience of the XKR, but I haven't, so I can't comment. Can anyone give us an owner's impression?

I suppose we're left to hope that the next XK will reverse the trend...

campbell

2,495 posts

240 months

Wednesday 5th June 2002
quotequote all
quote:

The creation of Britsh Leland was the end of Jaguar as we know it.



"Jim, the jag is dead"
No seriosly it is a shame it was never produced just to put two fingers in the are to BMW
I would like to be the man hilding the keys at the jag garage though

HarryW

14,883 posts

226 months

Thursday 6th June 2002
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Definitely the bean counters from Ford at work here.
When they took over Aston's the first thing they did was look at what was in the development phase, err nothing, so they took the 'new development' Jaguar, play with it slightly then called it the DB7. The same design team went on to design the XK8 utilising the lessons learnt from the DB7 experience, to produce a much better car IMHO second time around so to speak.
I don't know how far down the design phase Jag were on this, but bear it in mind if you suddenly see a new Aston that seems to have similar lines in a year or two

Harry

Farmer

1,286 posts

231 months

Thursday 6th June 2002
quotequote all
quote:

Definitely the bean counters from Ford at work here.
When they took over Aston's the first thing they did was look at what was in the development phase, err nothing, so they took the 'new development' Jaguar, play with it slightly then called it the DB7. The same design team went on to design the XK8 utilising the lessons learnt from the DB7 experience, to produce a much better car IMHO second time around so to speak.
I don't know how far down the design phase Jag were on this, but bear it in mind if you suddenly see a new Aston that seems to have similar lines in a year or two

Harry




Think you could have hit the nail square-on with this.....Shame . but lets hope there is somthing more radical planned instead . we shall see ,,,,Ford aren't Stupid

Twin Turbo

Original Poster:

5,544 posts

223 months

Thursday 6th June 2002
quotequote all
Ford might not be stupid......but they do seem to be having more than there fair share of developement problems. The Focus RS is going to be delayed AGAIN due to a fuel line problem discovered during crash-testing. Just how long can it take to bring a new model to production (not forgetting the RS is already based on a production car)?

Oh, and Land Rover (Ford) have now ditched the new Defender....the old will will have to soldier (sorry!) on for another 50 odd years...

marki

15,763 posts

227 months

Thursday 6th June 2002
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quote:

I wish I had experience of the XKR, but I haven't, so I can't comment. Can anyone give us an owner's impression?




Hello Ian

the XKR is a fine car, incredible mid range performance , and it just storms up to its max 250kph limiter , i have had mine 2 years and not one problem at all.

The steering is a bit vague and you are never in any doubt that the car weighs in at 1800kg. but it still corners better than you would think , and better than it originally feels it will you just have to learn to trust it .

Rear tyres evaporate at 10-12,000km intervals but a yearly or 15,000km service is just 166- inclusive .

Its a great long distance car very very comfortable , but she can lift her skirts and really go with the best of them when you want to , it is a fine car and on a sunny day with the roof down is hard to beat, also averages 19mpg and i do use it quite hard although that is with a lot of motorway miles.

Roof down its quite calm in the cabin even at the max,the only regrets are that i could not go for the brembo brakes and 20" wheel package which was not available when i got mine , the gear box is very responsive but i would so love this car with a manual box , very very satisfied with her


Twin Turbo

Original Poster:

5,544 posts

223 months

Thursday 6th June 2002
quotequote all
A friend used to have an XKR rag-top (Silverstone edition). Amazing car, very refined with an excellent ride. And deceptively fast, well it has got over 370bhp I suppose!

What would I change? It's a bit porky (like me) so a weight loss program would be good, as would a manual box. I tried sitting in the rear seats once (I'm over 6ft). Couldn't fit sideways, my head was litterally in the roof!!

Oh, and the engines too quiet. Definately needs a sports exhaust.

Did anyone see Tiff thrashing the S-Type R on 5th gear?
That supercharger was much more audible than my mates XK.

JMGS4

8,510 posts

227 months

Thursday 6th June 2002
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Well, having binned my Audi S4 due to their lying guarantee, I'm now the proud owner of an S-Type V8, and it's vastly better than the beemer or merc of the same ilk. Not a comparison with the S4 as that had a biturbo, race tuned suspension etc and bags of (chipped and tuned) oomph. But I've still got 4.2 litres, torque without end, and almost 300hp which allows me to cruise all day at 200kph at 3000rpm and ONLY 10.3 litres/100k 30mpg roughly(?) which is 5 litres less than the Audi per 100....
OK time to 100kph is worse but I've a comfortable wide, nice smelling, leather and wood, fast car with a dream of a six-speed auto (never wanted one but it's bloody good) which happliy and worthily replaces the S4. Don't slag Jags they're good and can get better. The only thing I don't really like and Tiff Needell remarked on it as well, the variable split diff does make it a bit mushy in fast bends.....but what the hell I'm and old wrinkly now!!!!
AND another advantage, one gets seen and the lower orders wave one through..... experienced yesterday in Switzerland... lovely feeling.........

marki

15,763 posts

227 months

Thursday 6th June 2002
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quote:

AND another advantage, one gets seen and the lower orders wave one through..... experienced yesterday in Switzerland... lovely feeling.........



Good point JMGS4 my XKR certainly seems to clear the fast lane of Numptys (most of the time anyway)and Jags in general do have a lot of road presence

JMGS4

8,510 posts

227 months

Thursday 6th June 2002
quotequote all
Too true, I'd noticed that on the way up to Frankfurt, they just seem to dissappear..... great. With the S4 everyone including the 190D Muckycedes would think "oh just an A4" when I was approaching at speeds nearing 300kph..... tested the very good S4 brakes often enough... 'kin Numpties, usually in a dark 190D, mediterranean types with black moustaches.... Seen them?

marki

15,763 posts

227 months

Thursday 6th June 2002
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quote:

Numpties, usually in a dark 190D, mediterranean types with black moustaches.... Seen them?



Most of them drive taxi`s over here , i guess the one`s you encounter on the Autobahns are in training for the "Taxi licence" if such a thing exists

JMGS4

8,510 posts

227 months

Thursday 6th June 2002
quotequote all
Nope, Turks, Albanians, Serbs, Afghans etc etc etc How they manage to buy (even an old Muckycedes) beats me, and they all darken the back and side windows.....'''kers

marki

15,763 posts

227 months

Thursday 6th June 2002
quotequote all
quote:

and they all darken the back and side windows.....'''kers



thats for the modesty of their 5 wives ,,, come on show me your face