Current Jaguar Range

Current Jaguar Range

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Triple7

3,972 posts

197 months

Friday 1st February 2019
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bad company said:
Well thanks for that. I’m very fond of Jaguars and I said have owned several (I forgot to add one of the very first XK8’s). It’s very sad that they just haven’t kept up with the German offerings.

I know I could buy used but that’s just not what I do. I like to spec my own new car and change at 3 years. The only Jaguar worth considering for me is the F Type but I’m a bit put off by the pricing and ‘extras’.
Me too.

I’d buy an F-Type if the pricing was sensible, but I simply won’t pay the dealer for the privilege of losing vast sums of money to drive one. I was quoted nearly £80k loss on an SVR over 3 years. Absolutely bonkers. With regret I have ordered a 992 C4S, a vastly more modern and capable car and cheaper!

bad company

Original Poster:

13,155 posts

226 months

Saturday 2nd February 2019
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Triple7 said:
Me too.

I’d buy an F-Type if the pricing was sensible, but I simply won’t pay the dealer for the privilege of losing vast sums of money to drive one. I was quoted nearly £80k loss on an SVR over 3 years. Absolutely bonkers. With regret I have ordered a 992 C4S, a vastly more modern and capable car and cheaper!
I only got as far as the £60 extra for vanity mirrors, oh and dual climate control was also an expensive ‘extra’.

Madness.

fatboy b

8,803 posts

176 months

Saturday 2nd February 2019
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8bit said:
bad company said:
Terribly sorry if this may have been mentioned before. If it did I missed it and certainly didn’t take part.

I assume you have no other comment.
You can't have looked very hard in here if you didn't find a thread covering this ground already. As regards your question, it depends what you mean by "high performance". If you mean a big engine then the biggest you'll get is the 3.0 V6 in petrol (XF only) or diesel (XJ only). If you mean something quick then the smaller engines do work well with the 8 speed auto transmission. Even the 2.0d in an XE with the 8sp auto box can make fairly rapid progress.
The biggest new XF and XE petrol (bar the P8) is 2 litre 4-pot

And the V6 diesel is still available for the XF.

Edited by fatboy b on Saturday 2nd February 15:28

fatboy b

8,803 posts

176 months

Saturday 2nd February 2019
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Gojira said:
BenjiS said:
Even when they were available, they sold next to bugger all of them. So it was a financial decision to pull them as well.

Despite ‘everyone’ bleating they wanted a big petrol saloon from Jag, very few actually bought one.
Yep....

Whein I saw the proposed sales number in the "RR SVO pulled" thread, I had a quick look on Howmanyleft - about 900 V6 XEs around in total.

If they were still available, I'd still have ordered the grandad spec 300 horse 2-litre that I ordered a couple of weeks ago.

I absolutely wouldn't blame anyone for buying the V6, but it seems not enough people did.

Plus, isn't the V6 a Ford unit - Jag are pulling out of the engine deal with Ford, which isn't popular in Bridgend.
The V6 petrol is a Jag design built by Ford. In fact it’s the same block casting as in the V8. Jag aren’t pulling out of the deal, it was a finite one that was agreed when Ford sold JLR.

The V6 diesel is mostly a Ford design, but with Jaguar-ised cylinder heads.

8bit

3,034 posts

115 months

Monday 4th February 2019
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fatboy b said:
The biggest new XF and XE petrol (bar the P8) is 2 litre 4-pot

And the V6 diesel is still available for the XF.

Edited by fatboy b on Saturday 2nd February 15:28
Fair one, I stand corrected.

300bhp/ton

39,135 posts

150 months

Monday 4th February 2019
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8bit said:
fatboy b said:
And so what? It’s currently a crap line up. Who cares if we keep debating it. Don’t like a thread, trot on my friend.
Sometimes seems like every third or fourth thread in here is just a group whinge about the current Jaguar line-up, from long-time owners who wish Jag still made the XJS and can't see why they won't sell in the modern automotive market. Just wish someone would change the record, my friend.
Logically if there are so many threads... doesn't that suggest they aren't hitting the mark?

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

124 months

Monday 4th February 2019
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I think and I may be wrong that Jaguar have tried to be all things to all people with SUV's, electric,saloons and high performance sports cars .Are Jaguar just chasing numbers?.

8bit

3,034 posts

115 months

Monday 4th February 2019
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300bhp/ton said:
Logically if there are so many threads... doesn't that suggest they aren't hitting the mark?
Alternatively, they're just trying to survive in the modern market and a great number of older/long time Jaguar faithful are finding there's not much for them to like in the current range.

300bhp/ton

39,135 posts

150 months

Monday 4th February 2019
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8bit said:
300bhp/ton said:
Logically if there are so many threads... doesn't that suggest they aren't hitting the mark?
Alternatively, they're just trying to survive in the modern market and a great number of older/long time Jaguar faithful are finding there's not much for them to like in the current range.
Doesn't that amount to the same thing? Chasing new sales is one thing, but repeat buyers are also valuable to retain.

And it's not just Jaguar, the Land rover range is pretty poxy at the moment too. With very little engine choice on some models, such as the Evoque.

8bit

3,034 posts

115 months

Monday 4th February 2019
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300bhp/ton said:
Doesn't that amount to the same thing? Chasing new sales is one thing, but repeat buyers are also valuable to retain.

And it's not just Jaguar, the Land rover range is pretty poxy at the moment too. With very little engine choice on some models, such as the Evoque.
Yes but repeat buyers eventually stop buying cars, for one of a few fairly obvious reasons. You can't base your business model on that if you want to stay in business. You have to be able to attract new customers too and they just don't want large luxury saloons or grand tourers, for example.

300bhp/ton

39,135 posts

150 months

Monday 4th February 2019
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8bit said:
Yes but repeat buyers eventually stop buying cars, for one of a few fairly obvious reasons. You can't base your business model on that if you want to stay in business. You have to be able to attract new customers too and they just don't want large luxury saloons or grand tourers, for example.
But again isn’t that the problem. The don’t really have an attractive range for new buyers. As well as little to offer repeat buyers....

I’m not saying there cars are naff. But tbh apart from maybe be Ftype they sell absolutely nothing of interest. And even with the Ftype I’d never consider a 4 pot one.

cardigankid

8,500 posts

172 months

Monday 4th February 2019
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OP is quite right. Maybe if we say it enough JLR will at some level pay attention.

Who one earth would buy an F Type SVR over a 992 C4S at a comparable price? The 992 is faster, handles better, is better built with more internal space more luggage space and better residuals.

Memo to Jaguar - if you are building a two seater sports car make sure it is light enough, has adequate space including luggage space and then price it against its competitors.

Jaguar were never known for cramped saloons yet this is what JLR have consistently delivered in recent years.

Jaguar were never known for sluggish cars yet this is where most of the range is languishing at present.

Jaguar always produced solidly built cars. Today they rust before your eyes. There is a lack of attention to detail in construction.

You expect your Jag to be stylish fast and effortless. The X300 and X350 models had that as did the X100 and X150 XK’s. You have to believe that it is well built. However it is in the end the exterior and interior styling which isn’t working. It’s not saying ‘Jaguar’ to me, and it’s not giving me the cosseted in leather and burr walnut feeling which I like. Modernism is fine but it’s not guaranteed to work.


johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

124 months

Monday 4th February 2019
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Jaguar is a small number Car production manufacturer they are trying to expand the range. The "R" range is potent enough but they ditched the Jag formula for a more modern approach to styling at which point it just merged in with most other major Car makers at first glance it is so hard to pick out brands.

300bhp/ton

39,135 posts

150 months

Monday 4th February 2019
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cardigankid said:
OP is quite right. Maybe if we say it enough JLR will at some level pay attention.

Who one earth would buy an F Type SVR over a 992 C4S at a comparable price? The 992 is faster, handles better, is better built with more internal space more luggage space and better residuals.

Memo to Jaguar - if you are building a two seater sports car make sure it is light enough, has adequate space including luggage space and then price it against its competitors.

Jaguar were never known for cramped saloons yet this is what JLR have consistently delivered in recent years.

Jaguar were never known for sluggish cars yet this is where most of the range is languishing at present.

Jaguar always produced solidly built cars. Today they rust before your eyes. There is a lack of attention to detail in construction.

You expect your Jag to be stylish fast and effortless. The X300 and X350 models had that as did the X100 and X150 XK’s. You have to believe that it is well built. However it is in the end the exterior and interior styling which isn’t working. It’s not saying ‘Jaguar’ to me, and it’s not giving me the cosseted in leather and burr walnut feeling which I like. Modernism is fine but it’s not guaranteed to work.
Couldn’t have said it better. And especially your last paragraph.

cardigankid

8,500 posts

172 months

Monday 4th February 2019
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I know that they cannot literally go back there now, but from 1995 to 2008 they tried to go back to the William Lyons period and they kind of succeeded.

8bit

3,034 posts

115 months

Tuesday 5th February 2019
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300bhp/ton said:
But again isn’t that the problem. The don’t really have an attractive range for new buyers. As well as little to offer repeat buyers....

I’m not saying there cars are naff. But tbh apart from maybe be Ftype they sell absolutely nothing of interest. And even with the Ftype I’d never consider a 4 pot one.
The number of the things I see around where I live would strongly suggest otherwise. Vast majority of the current car-buying population just want badge appeal, enough toys to pass the commute and affordably monthlies; this is the reality, this is what the current car industry has been distilled down to for the most part. Jaguar's dwindling sales when all they made were stylish luxury saloons and GTs and comparatively strong sales since they modernised attest to this.

So it goes back to the question; did you want Jaguar to go out of business continuing to make cars that only a vanishingly small customer base wanted, or rather see them have a fighting chance by keeping up with the times? And don't think it's just Jaguar that have had to realign either, sit outside a high-street coffee shop for a while and count the number of current (i.e. < 3 years old) Audi A4s and Q3 or Q5s that go past and then see if that gives any further insight.

300bhp/ton

39,135 posts

150 months

Tuesday 5th February 2019
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8bit said:
The number of the things I see around where I live would strongly suggest otherwise. Vast majority of the current car-buying population just want badge appeal, enough toys to pass the commute and affordably monthlies; this is the reality, this is what the current car industry has been distilled down to for the most part. Jaguar's dwindling sales when all they made were stylish luxury saloons and GTs and comparatively strong sales since they modernised attest to this.

So it goes back to the question; did you want Jaguar to go out of business continuing to make cars that only a vanishingly small customer base wanted, or rather see them have a fighting chance by keeping up with the times? And don't think it's just Jaguar that have had to realign either, sit outside a high-street coffee shop for a while and count the number of current (i.e. < 3 years old) Audi A4s and Q3 or Q5s that go past and then see if that gives any further insight.
TBH I'm not really sure what you are arguing, nor why you seem to be taking all as such personal insults to yourself. I know you have a pic of an XKR in your profile, but seriously, chill out.

As for success, Jaguar seemed to be doing well by doing what they were. Really why does every company need to seek world domination. They could have just stuck to what they did well and been happy at that.

As for sales numbers now.

It looks like in the USA they did a fair bit better nearly 20 years ago:
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/jaguar/


And the XJ certainly looks like a poor performer.

1099 sold in Europe last year, vs 14,000 in 1998.

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/ja...

I know they have moved it "up market" and likely make more margin per car. But you have to wonder what their real plan was here.

http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/ja...

And for me personally, I liked the Jag styling of old. Loved the XJ6 styling from Series 1 right through to the V8 models (X308). The X350/358 was ok, but looked fugly by comparison to the older ones.

I also like the X and S Types. But the XF doesn't appeal at all. Looks like a German wannabe. And XE is just a more dull and boring looking version of the XF. Even the XJ is just a visually unappealing heffalump.

Jags used to look sleek, elegant and fantastic. Today they do not.

8bit

3,034 posts

115 months

Tuesday 5th February 2019
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300bhp/ton said:
<lots of the usual opinionated, misinformed claptrap you're known for posting in GG>
I have an XKR yes, your point being? That doesn't make this "personal", I have no personal affection towards Jaguar, only that I like my car. The fact that you went digging into my profile for something you could throw in to your argument with me just looks a bit sad really.

In any case it was a well known fact that Jaguar were in financial difficulty before Ford and later Tata acquired them so your point about "stuck to what they did well and been happy at that" is flawed. And pulling the sales figures for a single model, specifically one which is now the top of the range as far as luxury saloons go, and further ignoring the higher volume models like XE and XJ (not to mention the SUVs) only really supports my point; people are not buying large, luxury saloons any more.

Triple7

3,972 posts

197 months

Tuesday 5th February 2019
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As peeps have said and I agree, Jaguar haven’t a scoobies what they are doing.....they are chasing volumes, at the cost of the brand. The accounts have taken control, they have ditched their history and have followed the crowd. Porsche pricing, for Vauxhall products.

I personally think that Mr Callum’s time has past and like the Bangle era at BMW, there needs to be a change. Yes, loved his XK, XJ, F-Type, but that’s where it ends for me.

There is a market for saloons, but a BMW 3/5 Series, is still way more desireable, higher quality, better finance deals and have a whole range of engine and body types to suit all customers, than the XE, XF range. XJ or a 7 Series/S Class.....

C’mon JLR, if you make it right, I will buy....

bad company

Original Poster:

13,155 posts

226 months

Tuesday 5th February 2019
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8bit said:
I have an XKR yes, your point being? That doesn't make this "personal", I have no personal affection towards Jaguar, only that I like my car. The fact that you went digging into my profile for something you could throw in to your argument with me just looks a bit sad really.
You do seem to have been very defensive of Jaguar right from the off on this thread.