rumours of the next XJ (X351)
Discussion
I've heard from a senior Ford insider that its "astonishing". 
Can't wait to see it.
Hope they don't run out of money on the interior finish, like the XK
It better be good though, if not, it'll be the last XJ, I suspect.
And we'll all be reduced to driving German; stars, propellors, or rings. (or worst still, ersatz ricers).
Can't wait to see it.
Hope they don't run out of money on the interior finish, like the XK
It better be good though, if not, it'll be the last XJ, I suspect.
And we'll all be reduced to driving German; stars, propellors, or rings. (or worst still, ersatz ricers).
It may be fantastic, and it will need to be. But succeeding in the luxury car market is like a marathon. You have got to be better than the next guy, year after year after year till it is ingrained in your culture, and eventually the buying public, which is not innovative, will catch on. They are getting a reputation for quality and reliability, only now. What worries me is how driven they are by the American market, which demands big flashy shite, and that is not the way to go. They have to succeed in Europe, and after that they will succeed in the US. It used to be said that America was always twenty years ahead of the UK. In consumer matters probably so, but in cars Europe is probably twenty years ahead of the States.
cardigankid said:
It may be fantastic, and it will need to be. But succeeding in the luxury car market is like a marathon. You have got to be better than the next guy, year after year after year till it is ingrained in your culture, and eventually the buying public, which is not innovative, will catch on. They are getting a reputation for quality and reliability, only now. What worries me is how driven they are by the American market, which demands big flashy shite, and that is not the way to go. They have to succeed in Europe, and after that they will succeed in the US. It used to be said that America was always twenty years ahead of the UK. In consumer matters probably so, but in cars Europe is probably twenty years ahead of the States.
That is an erroneous statement. As LuS1fer and Gavin Pearson will say, The US makes different autos for different uses. Behind 20 years? Reliability, cost, etc are fas better in US cars. American cars make innovationsbut try to maintain simplicity. Eurofare is hung up on being complex for compexity's sake. Different, yes; behind, not hardly.
jimbeaux said:
cardigankid said:
It may be fantastic, and it will need to be. But succeeding in the luxury car market is like a marathon. You have got to be better than the next guy, year after year after year till it is ingrained in your culture, and eventually the buying public, which is not innovative, will catch on. They are getting a reputation for quality and reliability, only now. What worries me is how driven they are by the American market, which demands big flashy shite, and that is not the way to go. They have to succeed in Europe, and after that they will succeed in the US. It used to be said that America was always twenty years ahead of the UK. In consumer matters probably so, but in cars Europe is probably twenty years ahead of the States.
That is an erroneous statement. As LuS1fer and Gavin Pearson will say, The US makes different autos for different uses. Behind 20 years? Reliability, cost, etc are far better in US cars. American cars make innovations but try to maintain simplicity. Eurofare is hung up on being complex for compexity's sake. Different, yes; behind, not hardly.
I agree Jimbeaux. There is definitely an expectation in the USA that cars should be reliable, and that is really driven by the fact that people will drive huge distances without the luxury having a dealer 50 miles away. The American market is different, but many of the core values true enthusiasts have are stronger than you might think. Remember, it was the US market that told BMW they wanted an M5 with manual transmission after being underwhelmed by an uninvolving SMG 7 speed.
I accept that you know far more about this than I do, but I still feel that my layman's perception is basically correct. Why do US customers buy M5's? Because there isn't a domestically produced equivalent. What is the US equivalent of the Golf GTi or Civic Type R, and why haven't we heard about it? I think that that what consumers are looking for in the US, as a national average, is very unsophisticated. That probably includes reliability. But the product reflects that. I dont doubt that there are some very sophisticated enthusiasts.
On complexity for complexity's sake the stability control on the XJR has saved my arse on more than one occasion, partly because you know its there and you develop a degree of confidence. That kind of complexity I can live with.
On complexity for complexity's sake the stability control on the XJR has saved my arse on more than one occasion, partly because you know its there and you develop a degree of confidence. That kind of complexity I can live with.
cardigankid said:
And correct too I surmise.
No, it was meant as sarcasm. You made it sound as if wanting reliability equates to a lack of sophistication; did I misunderstand you? If so, I apologize. There are differences in what EU/US drivers need and want. However, to simply chalk it up to lack of sophistication is more a combination of Euro-misunderstanding coupled with snobbery IMO.
cardigankid said:
I accept that you know far more about this than I do, but I still feel that my layman's perception is basically correct. Why do US customers buy M5's? Because there isn't a domestically produced equivalent. What is the US equivalent of the Golf GTi or Civic Type R, and why haven't we heard about it? I think that that what consumers are looking for in the US, as a national average, is very unsophisticated. That probably includes reliability. But the product reflects that. I dont doubt that there are some very sophisticated enthusiasts.
On complexity for complexity's sake the stability control on the XJR has saved my arse on more than one occasion, partly because you know its there and you develop a degree of confidence. That kind of complexity I can live with.
People buy M5s because they are extremely good cars. They feel glued to the road. They accelerate at a blinding pace. They have well appointed interiors. They have kudos. On complexity for complexity's sake the stability control on the XJR has saved my arse on more than one occasion, partly because you know its there and you develop a degree of confidence. That kind of complexity I can live with.
But the Cadillac CTS-V is a good US built alternative. It's a genuine contender. Then there is the Pontiac G8, although it won't have the same level of interior, or quite the performance, but then again it costs $40,000 less.
In terms of an alternative to the Golf GTi or Civic type R, now that those cars are approaching 200 bhp the only car with that power is a Dodge Caliber, but the market at large just doesn't take a hatchback seriously as a performance car. For the same money, you can buy a Mustang, and that is exactly what people do.
Regarding stability control you get that as standard now on all Ford SUVs, and increasingly many cars and trucks.
As a nation America has just as much of a cross section of people as anywhere. Many non enthusiasts just want transport in the form of a basic car or truck. Much like people in Britain or the rest of Europe really. Except the American car has AC and an engine that allows you to cruise all day at 70 and not change down to go up a hill. In turn they would regard the average British car as unsophisticated and grossly overpriced with a puny engine and no space inside it. They do have a point.
In terms of reliability I cannot state enough how big a deal reliability is - if the cupholders don't work, or the AM radio reception is poor so you can't hear the traffic report then that's two strikes against the car, and if it needs anything other than oil and filter changes before the warranty is up then people are seriously unhappy.
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