Can I keep a courtesy car (garage liquidated)
Discussion
I bought a car in September 2016 and returned it for repairs within a month. They gave me a courtesy car. After several months of being given the runaround, I find that the owner had been arrested and the liquidators seized all stock. The owner had alledgedly been selling cars on consignment and keeping the money, or selling cars without the owner's permission, and also pocketing the money. CID are now invloved and both they and the liquidators confirmed that my car was not present when everything was seized. Nobody knows where my car is.
So, I have a courtesy car sitting outside my house that I am now not driving because, after searching online, its neither taxed nor MOTd (both ran out a few weeks ago). I made the police aware of the vehicle just in case it was owned by someone and needed to be returned to its rightful owner (I felt obliged morally and perhaps even legally), but I have NOT informed the liquidators. Yet!
I would like to know whether I am in a good position to put a lien on the courtesy car for either goods and services not supplied or being a creditor. Although, I am certain that I would be small fry on the liquidator's creditor list (banks and other large claimants always come first). So basically, I paid for something that I didnt get but I have something of theirs that could offset my loss. Actually, the courtesy is almost a like-for-like; not quite as good as mime but I would be happy enough to own it and move forward with my life.
Can I move to put a lien on the courtesy car's logbook and inform the liquidators of my intentions?
Also, if I do get to keep the courtesy car, what would I do if and when the police find my actual missing car? It is now classed as stolen so let's hope it's only a matter of time before they find it. So, would I legally have to give the keys of the courtesy car over to the liquidators?, ...who may then would have auctioned all seized goods and closed the case, or do I get to keep both cars?, ...for both perseverance AND out of pocket expenses, stress, my time and any other legally binding reason; especially because I currently don't have transport and it is extremely inconvenient?
Oh, I almost forgot, I paid the deposit on a credit card so am currently awaiting their forms to arrive in the post because I am in a good position to make a claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Goods Act for goods and services not received. If successful, the credit card company will pay out the full amount.
I have three options:
1. Put a lien on the courtesy car and keep it
2. The police may one day find my original car
3. I'll get paid out by the credit card company
I may be successful with all or be very unlucky and get nothing, but surely I can only keep one and not all three.
Lots to discuss, folks : )
So, I have a courtesy car sitting outside my house that I am now not driving because, after searching online, its neither taxed nor MOTd (both ran out a few weeks ago). I made the police aware of the vehicle just in case it was owned by someone and needed to be returned to its rightful owner (I felt obliged morally and perhaps even legally), but I have NOT informed the liquidators. Yet!
I would like to know whether I am in a good position to put a lien on the courtesy car for either goods and services not supplied or being a creditor. Although, I am certain that I would be small fry on the liquidator's creditor list (banks and other large claimants always come first). So basically, I paid for something that I didnt get but I have something of theirs that could offset my loss. Actually, the courtesy is almost a like-for-like; not quite as good as mime but I would be happy enough to own it and move forward with my life.
Can I move to put a lien on the courtesy car's logbook and inform the liquidators of my intentions?
Also, if I do get to keep the courtesy car, what would I do if and when the police find my actual missing car? It is now classed as stolen so let's hope it's only a matter of time before they find it. So, would I legally have to give the keys of the courtesy car over to the liquidators?, ...who may then would have auctioned all seized goods and closed the case, or do I get to keep both cars?, ...for both perseverance AND out of pocket expenses, stress, my time and any other legally binding reason; especially because I currently don't have transport and it is extremely inconvenient?
Oh, I almost forgot, I paid the deposit on a credit card so am currently awaiting their forms to arrive in the post because I am in a good position to make a claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Goods Act for goods and services not received. If successful, the credit card company will pay out the full amount.
I have three options:
1. Put a lien on the courtesy car and keep it
2. The police may one day find my original car
3. I'll get paid out by the credit card company
I may be successful with all or be very unlucky and get nothing, but surely I can only keep one and not all three.
Lots to discuss, folks : )
Edited by Rigsbyg on Saturday 22 April 14:20
Edited by Rigsbyg on Saturday 22 April 14:23
Rigsbyg said:
Although, I am certain that I would be small fry on the liquidator's creditor list (banks and other large claimants always come first).
All creditors are now treated the same. Well except for the tax-man, and of-course the liquidators who will get first option on any money or goods.
Sa Calobra said:
Did the trader owe you money?
So there's lots of car owners who had cars sold and didn't see the funds and you want to participate further in withholding money through the liquidator that may go to them?
Yes, there are many people / victims, but at the end of the day I am only interested in looking after myself, as others would do. The trader doesn't owe me money but he DID have my car; so, in a roundabout sort of way, yes, he owed me something that I paid for, and hence I will move to keep the courtesy car to cover my loss.So there's lots of car owners who had cars sold and didn't see the funds and you want to participate further in withholding money through the liquidator that may go to them?
Liquidators would take that courtesy car and auction it for pennies, giving the other victims barely anything. It would be best to avoid doing that. I am always looking after others and putting their interests first but for once in my life this is all about me.
I would say no, you can't keep it.
The courtesy car is now the property of the debt collection agency and you should inform them you have it. If they decide to let you keep it that's their choice but it's unlikely.
The whereabouts of your car is the thing for your concern and you need to bring that up with the police and debt collection agency. I'm not sure what level of responsibility they have for your car, probably not a lot sadly, so it might be listed as stolen by the garage if it's lost. This then becomes an insurance claim by your own insurance against the garage insurers, if they exist.
Crap situation to be in, I hope you get it sorted.
The courtesy car is now the property of the debt collection agency and you should inform them you have it. If they decide to let you keep it that's their choice but it's unlikely.
The whereabouts of your car is the thing for your concern and you need to bring that up with the police and debt collection agency. I'm not sure what level of responsibility they have for your car, probably not a lot sadly, so it might be listed as stolen by the garage if it's lost. This then becomes an insurance claim by your own insurance against the garage insurers, if they exist.
Crap situation to be in, I hope you get it sorted.
Markbarry1977 said:
Surely as your car has been stolen, you inform your insurance company who ty n pay you for your loss. Your insurance company must then join the list of creditors to get back whatever they can.
It's not been stolen - it's been left in the hands of a business who's now in liquidation. That's not the same thing.The car remains the property of the OP tho, the liquidator can and should return it ASAP. In the event they cannot or they return it other than in the condition you left them in, you would have to seek recompense from the liquidator as a creditor of the business.
Note: consumer rights - the right to having a roadworthy car etc. - ceased when the company went tits-up tho, so you're limited to the value/state of the car when delivered to the business - you're not owed any work - you MIGHT be owed the cost of returning it to the original state if it's in bits - maybe.
As for the courtesy car - it's not yours and they'll be wanting it back - not returning it would be theft (permanently depriving someone of their goods). You don't have to take it back - you do have to let them know where it is!!
405dogvan said:
Markbarry1977 said:
Surely as your car has been stolen, you inform your insurance company who ty n pay you for your loss. Your insurance company must then join the list of creditors to get back whatever they can.
It's not been stolen - it's been left in the hands of a business who's now in liquidation. That's not the same thing.The car remains the property of the OP tho, the liquidator can and should return it ASAP. In the event they cannot or they return it other than in the condition you left them in, you would have to seek recompense from the liquidator as a creditor of the business.
Note: consumer rights - the right to having a roadworthy car etc. - ceased when the company went tits-up tho, so you're limited to the value/state of the car when delivered to the business - you're not owed any work - you MIGHT be owed the cost of returning it to the original state if it's in bits - maybe.
As for the courtesy car - it's not yours and they'll be wanting it back - not returning it would be theft (permanently depriving someone of their goods). You don't have to take it back - you do have to let them know where it is!!
Rigsbyg said:
I bought a car in September 2016 and returned it for repairs within a month.
So there could well be an argument that the car was returned for a refund under CRA2015, so you're actually just owed your money.Rigsbyg said:
After several months of being given the runaround, I find that the owner had been arrested and the liquidators seized all stock. The owner had alledgedly been selling cars on consignment and keeping the money, or selling cars without the owner's permission, and also pocketing the money. CID are now invloved and both they and the liquidators confirmed that my car was not present when everything was seized. Nobody knows where my car is.
So, either way, it's the value of the car that's going to be returned to you (at absolute best) rather than the actual car itself, since that's gone awol. Forget about the car. It's gone.Rigsbyg said:
So, I have a courtesy car sitting outside my house that I am now not driving because, after searching online, its neither taxed nor MOTd (both ran out a few weeks ago). I made the police aware of the vehicle just in case it was owned by someone and needed to be returned to its rightful owner (I felt obliged morally and perhaps even legally), but I have NOT informed the liquidators. Yet!
Do so, asap. The liquidators are the ONLY people who need to know.Assuming the car isn't financed - in which case, it's the finance company's asset - then the legal owner is almost certainly the garage, so the car is an asset of the liquidated business. In order to be able to properly decide which creditors can be paid, and how much, the liquidators need to know what the full assets are. The assets are then disposed of in whatever way brings the maximum return for the creditors, with secured and priority creditors paid first. Unsecured creditors (that's you, btw) are down the line.
So if you're owed £5k, and have £1k in their assets, the liquidators MIGHT decide it's easier to let you keep the asset if there's £1k due to be paid to you. But if there's insufficient money to pay the taxman (priority creditor), then you are due nothing - you need to return that £1k asset, because the £1k is needed to pay the taxman.
If you're owed £5k, and have a £6k asset, then - at absolute best - you're going to need to pay that £1k shortfall in... If you're owed £5k, but there's only sufficient funds to give you a £2k payout, then you need to pay that £4k shortfall in to keep the asset. Or return the asset and get £2k cash.
Oh, and you'll still be liable for the value of the asset, even if it gets impounded, because it was in your care.
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Saturday 22 April 16:16
Mr2Mike said:
Cold said:
An unrelated question, OP. If I wished to store my car on your driveway, how much would you consider charging me?
Those storage charges really do rack up quickly...At that point, it's an asset of the business - and it's the OP's responsibility to ensure the liquidators are aware of it... Once they're aware, you could probably claim storage, if they refuse to collect it... But given that he's not told them about it? No.
The courtesy car is an asset of the business, and the proceeds of its sale will go to the creditors. However the liquidators are incentivised to move quickly to minimise expenses in shutting the business (while achieving reasonable value).
So why not make them a cheeky low offer to buy the car? Yours has probably gone for good. They will have expenses (collection, auction house) if they get it from you and auction it. And they would only receive auction value. So offer 1k below trade price.
Even if your car turns up later you can always sell it.
So why not make them a cheeky low offer to buy the car? Yours has probably gone for good. They will have expenses (collection, auction house) if they get it from you and auction it. And they would only receive auction value. So offer 1k below trade price.
Even if your car turns up later you can always sell it.
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