Instructions to change fuel maps on 14CUX Griffith, Chimaera

Instructions to change fuel maps on 14CUX Griffith, Chimaera

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TRIUMPHBULLET

375 posts

71 months

Tuesday 5th May
quotequote all
Hi all, as I have been tied to home for the last few weeks I decided to play with the TR7 again.
Thanks to Steve Sprint for help a few years ago I modified my ecu to take an eeprom and have run it with success but also had a supercharger project on the back burner which is now installed,feel free to laugh I know its not textbook.
Its a little 'crude' in its execution but runs well, just a little flat spot if the throttle is pressed fast although the injection system will need tuning by an expert when I can travel the distances needed.I am running a 4L Chimera pre cat map at the moment.I will order a wide band lambda system when I can sort out what to buy,The AEM 30-0300 looks like it is affordable,if its any good.
I have included a few photos for your amusement as I know some have you have produced some works of art.
Details are a std distributor with advance limited to 28 degrees and a 1.8 to 1 drive ratio for the Eaton M112 making 5lbs boost through a cheapo aluminium intercooler.

stevesprint

Original Poster:

1,059 posts

137 months

Saturday 9th May
quotequote all
TRIUMPHBULLET said:
Hi all, as I have been tied to home for the last few weeks I decided to play with the TR7 again.
Thanks to Steve Sprint for help a few years ago I modified my ecu to take an eeprom and have run it with success but also had a supercharger project on the back burner which is now installed,feel free to laugh I know its not textbook.
Its a little 'crude' in its execution but runs well, just a little flat spot if the throttle is pressed fast although the injection system will need tuning by an expert when I can travel the distances needed.I am running a 4L Chimera pre cat map at the moment.I will order a wide band lambda system when I can sort out what to buy,The AEM 30-0300 looks like it is affordable,if its any good.
I have included a few photos for your amusement as I know some have you have produced some works of art.
Details are a std distributor with advance limited to 28 degrees and a 1.8 to 1 drive ratio for the Eaton M112 making 5lbs boost through a cheapo aluminium intercooler.
Very impressive, do you know what sort of power it will produces?

Seeing a Rover V8 EFi in a Red TR7 brings back happy memories even though my old TR7’s engine bay wasn’t so busy as yours.



If you are planning to keep the 14CUX you might benefit from using a 123 Ignition distributor as they are fully programmable for vacuum and boost.

Is that your idle stepper behind the right headlamp & does it work there? I guess you don't have room to mount it on the front of the plenum like mine.

Please let me know if you need a hand re-mapping the old 14CUX ECU or you need to run bigger injectors or a bigger airflow meter, if you buy an Innovate LC-2 lambda controller I could help you re-map it yourself from the RoverGauge & LC2 logs after driving safely on the roads.

Thanks for posting your pictures, very interesting.
Steve Sprint

Edited by stevesprint on Sunday 10th May 11:20

rangerovering

6 posts

73 months

Monday 11th May
quotequote all
stevesprint said:
Joolz

No secret, maybe because my 5AM was running at +96% airflow where as the Bosch 4.6 runs at 75% airflow.

Here’s my new 4.6 Bosch MAF from Euro Car Parts, do you know if the part number is correct and the same as the cars you tested.




Here’s a comparison of the AFMs with the inner diameters measured at the narrowest point

3/5AM (54mm) ..................................................... 20AM (70mm) .............................4.6 Bosch MAF (76.5mm)


You can see below my ‘Row Scalar’ is EA, in addition you’ll also notice I’m now running your all new RPM set points without any issues and hope you don’t mind. To pull the idle back up to the second row I had to increase the ‘Row Offset’ at prom offset 1C8 from 1E to 34. The Row Scalar, as you know, is a multiplier and there are 6 per chip, one per fuel map, whereas there is only one ‘Row Offset’ per chip and it shifts the usable range of the fuel table uniformly up and down. For my information, I also change the Ident at the top of the RoverGauge screen to 34B5 so I can quickly see my current ‘Row Offset’ & my fuel table version B5 for Bosch 5, but please don’t analyse this fuel table too closely as it was an old work in progress and now tidied up in B6.


Edited by stevesprint on Sunday 2nd June 15:49
Hi Folks,

Been lurking on here on and off for 6 years! Was sure I posted something on this thread in the past but cant find it, one of you kind chaps helped sort my map programme so it would write to the chip.

Been running well for the last few years in the Rangey, have started getting a problem where cruising and under extra load there is a misfire and pop regularly occurring. Swapped to my backup spare standard ECU and this has nigh on all disappeared, so I suspect something wrong with the chip in the tuned ECU. Where are you guys sourcing your chips and have you had any issues with them "going bad"? I'm sure this happened to me before they seem to last around 3 years then give trouble...

The other query I have is about the 20AM AFM, is it a straightforward rewire as per the diagram and then adjusting the scalar? What are the main pros of doing this would you say?

Thanks and keep up the good work everyone its really helpful to have this information.

TRIUMPHBULLET

375 posts

71 months

Monday 11th May
quotequote all
Hi Steve, any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.I am going to use the 14cux as it has always been reliable for me.
I suspect the Sagem injectors should be ok up to around 250 hp,I can't see me needing any more as that will cause extra load on the drivetrain that I am not willing or able to address.It has been an interesting experiment that I have enjoyed working on and masses of extra power was never the reason for doing it.
As you know I have not been in the best of health the last few years, better now but as I don't know how my work situation is going to be I have taken the TR off the road for a while.
The idle air valve actually works as well as when it was on the plenum and it idles ok.The bypass valve is after the intercooler so it helps keep the supercharger cool when at part throttle.It is a bit untidy under there but I did not want it to look anything other than standard.I can tidy it up later.Power is much improved, now the clutch is slipping slightly,I think torque has improved more than horspower but that suits me fine.
The gearbox and clutch were ready for replacement before the lock down but that has had to be put on the back burner for now as I don't think my back is up to doing it on the drive.
Is the LC2 reliable in your opinion?
Once again thank you for your help.

stevesprint

Original Poster:

1,059 posts

137 months

Saturday 16th May
quotequote all
RangerRovering
Welcome back, you original post is at the bottom of page 32
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I would first try copying your standard ECU fuel map to your tuned ECU to help identify the issue and let me know how it goes.

I tend to buy chips new or second hand from ebay and always buy ST M27C256 PROMs or Atmel AT28C256 EPROMs and never had a problem with them, for long term use I would always suggest PROMs.

A 20AM won’t work very well on a 3.5 as you won’t flow enough air and not reach the bottom row of the fuel table even if you max out the AFM scalar, sorry.

To use a 20AM the wiring is straight forward and I always refer to Mark Blitz well illustrated wiring diagram.

As the 5v output curve are the same in theory you can just change the row scalar and will drive reasonably well provided you adjust the scalar to give the same rows at the same loads as the 5AM, I suggest working from the RoverGauge log files before and after as they are more accurate than the on screen active cell trace, you should then really get the map checked & fine tuned on a rolling road.

Thanks for your kind words and play safe.

stevesprint

Original Poster:

1,059 posts

137 months

Sunday 17th May
quotequote all
TRIUMPHBULLET

From my limited experience the standard injectors max out at about 340 bhp @ 6,000rpm so you should be ok.

Arrr yes I see your idle valve is plumbed in after your intercooler, interesting.

Are LC2 reliable?
Very good question, depends on the installation and how your engine runs. I’m on my second wideband probe in 7 years but probably because I run my Precat Griff richer than 14.7 for smoothness as I have a lairy cam, plus I had some running issues in 2018 with a dodgy 20AM that may have cause it to die before its time. Innovate have updated the LC2 firmware since mine and now they come with the later LSU4.9 Bosch wideband probe where as mine is the old LSU 4.2 probe, maybe worth checking before buying.

Your main priority is to decide on the outputs and/or gauge required. I chose the Innovate LC2 as it has an analogue output for a dash gauge plus its serial port outputs 10 AFR readings per second so there’s always a AFR reading to synchronize with the RoverGauge log records, this allows me to easily create an Excel pivot table showing the AFR for each fuel table cell.

Good luck with your back & gearbox/clutch and let me know if you buy a LC2 and need a hand re-mapping from the comfort of your arm chair.

Edited by stevesprint on Sunday 17th May 23:51

stevesprint

Original Poster:

1,059 posts

137 months

Sunday 17th May
quotequote all
Talking of injectors above, I’ve recently switched to Vectra injectors because Joolz & COG both say they have a better spray pattern that helps smoothness which I can now confirm they do slightly help smoothness.

Surprisingly my Precat Griff started & ran with the Vectra injectors and my original fuel map but obviously ran very rich until I reduced the main fuel table multiplier by about 8% and the cranking fuel. This confirms what Chimpandtonic (COG) said back in 2012
“The car ran perfectly on the Vectra injectors without any adjustments to the fuelling”
However, I suspect his lambda trims went minus % to compensate which isn’t ideal but proved the flow increase isn’t massive and you could fit them yourself before driving to Joolz for a remap.

GM90501588(Siemens5WK90761) .. Bosch 0280 155 931(Corvette 5.7) .. Land Rover No: ERR722 (Lucas: D1830GA)



You can see the Vectra injectors are a straight swap where as the Bosch ones fit but you have to cut the top grooves for the fuel rail clips.

You can see the Lucas & Vectra spay patterns and flow rates here
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=11...

Would be interesting to experiment with the Bosch injectors next year to compare how much extra fuel they flow.

davep

1,044 posts

242 months

Monday 18th May
quotequote all
stevesprint said:
Talking of injectors above, I’ve recently switched to Vectra injectors because Joolz & COG both say they have a better spray pattern that helps smoothness which I can now confirm they do slightly help smoothness.

Surprisingly my Precat Griff started & ran with the Vectra injectors and my original fuel map but obviously ran very rich until I reduced the main fuel table multiplier by about 8% and the cranking fuel. This confirms what Chimpandtonic (COG) said back in 2012
“The car ran perfectly on the Vectra injectors without any adjustments to the fuelling”
However, I suspect his lambda trims went minus % to compensate which isn’t ideal but proved the flow increase isn’t massive and you could fit them yourself before driving to Joolz for a remap.

GM90501588(Siemens5WK90761) .. Bosch 0280 155 931(Corvette 5.7) .. Land Rover No: ERR722 (Lucas: D1830GA)



You can see the Vectra injectors are a straight swap where as the Bosch ones fit but you have to cut the top grooves for the fuel rail clips.

You can see the Lucas & Vectra spay patterns and flow rates here
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=11...

Would be interesting to experiment with the Bosch injectors next year to compare how much extra fuel they flow.
Steve, are the pintle injectors audibly noisier than the disc?

There are pros and cons for each type and contradiction abounds on the interweb. But I've always thought that since the fuel is aimed towards the back face of the inlet valve and into the swirling turbulence of the inlet runner, disc atomisation and flow rate will do just fine.

Granted, if bimbling along in a pre-cat Griff at less than 3000 rpm and smoothness is your bag, then pintle, pipe and slippers it is. ;-)

rangerovering

6 posts

73 months

Tuesday 19th May
quotequote all
stevesprint said:
RangerRovering
Welcome back, you original post is at the bottom of page 32
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I would first try copying your standard ECU fuel map to your tuned ECU to help identify the issue and let me know how it goes.

I tend to buy chips new or second hand from ebay and always buy ST M27C256 PROMs or Atmel AT28C256 EPROMs and never had a problem with them, for long term use I would always suggest PROMs.

A 20AM won’t work very well on a 3.5 as you won’t flow enough air and not reach the bottom row of the fuel table even if you max out the AFM scalar, sorry.

To use a 20AM the wiring is straight forward and I always refer to Mark Blitz well illustrated wiring diagram.

As the 5v output curve are the same in theory you can just change the row scalar and will drive reasonably well provided you adjust the scalar to give the same rows at the same loads as the 5AM, I suggest working from the RoverGauge log files before and after as they are more accurate than the on screen active cell trace, you should then really get the map checked & fine tuned on a rolling road.

Thanks for your kind words and play safe.
Thanks Steve,

Slightly embarassing but I think most of the issue has been my timing strobe playing up, retimed it 4 times to try and get this issue sorted with no success except the stock ECU ran better hence my querying the chip.

Anyway, set it at 8 degrees BTDC on Sunday and all is well again, pulls hard all through the revs and sounds much happier too. So maybe there is nothing amiss with the ECU hopefully.

Interesting on the 20AM mod - it was just a query, might look into it one day if my 5AM spares supply goes wrong. Working on sorting the CO gas analyser first as the pump is obsolete and SUN/SnapOn are hopeless to work with.

Cheers!

stevesprint

Original Poster:

1,059 posts

137 months

Wednesday 27th May
quotequote all
Dave,

I never noticed the Vectra injectors are more audible until you mentioned it and you have to put your ear right up to them to hear them.

As the injectors are fired twice for one valve opening you live in hope half a squirt goes straight into the cylinders without first collecting on the side walls and the back of the valves, maybe that’s why they are marginally smoother while bimbling along as I do, unlike you at Millbrook thumbup

I agree standard disc atomisation and flow rates are fine, however you can see from my RoveGauge and AFR merged log my standard injectors are running at 94.6% duty cycle on RoverGauge’s last log record at 5,119rpm and therefore reaches 100% at approximately 5,500rpm. I know for sure my injectors are maxing out because increasing the main scalar further & inserting FF’s in the last cell of the fuel table made no difference to AFR.



Although my injectors maxing out doesn’t seem to cause me any issues I thought it would interesting to see if you can install bigger injectors and/or a higher fuel pressure regulator and then only change the main fuel table scalar. I’m pleased to say I did and it drives and goes the same as before although the AFR is now not always spot so I will fine tune a few cells in the main fuel table.

The Vectra injectors run at 89.2% duty cycle at RoverGauge last log record at 5,200rpm which is about 5% less and max out at approximately 6,000rpm instead of 5,500rpm, therefore they only made a surprisingly small difference to duty cycle especially as I also upgraded to a 3 bar fuel pressure regulator at the same time.

So why do some people suggest you shouldn’t run injectors above 80% duty cycle?

Donkercam

22 posts

92 months

Saturday 11th July
quotequote all
Hi,

My car jerks under 2000 rpm, I think about put new eprom chip on my 500 chim, but I don't found 500 firmware here :
http://www.remap-14cux.uk/bins/
What firmware choice for chimaera 500 1999 ? It is the same for 450 ?

Or any idea to find ortimized eprom chip for 1999 500 ?

Thanks

Cam

blitzracing

6,086 posts

178 months

Sunday 12th July
quotequote all
Steve did me a copy of the 5ltr white map put into green. I've run this on a couple of cars now, and not had any issues with an overheating catalyst as that was my major concern with switching off the catalyst cycle. You also need to change the tune resistor to switch to green tune, but at least you can then control the low RPM mixture with the screw on the side of the AFM. Its also worth doing the modification to remove the ported vacuum for the dizzy advance, as this makes the engine bay cooler and idle better. Both these modifications will cause the car to fail emission tests at MOT time, so must be reversed in order for a pass.

stevesprint

Original Poster:

1,059 posts

137 months

Sunday 12th July
quotequote all
On my bins page you should already be running “TVR Griffith 500 (1995on) (R2967)” which is under “TVR OEM Tune Files”, send us a RoverGauge screen shot and we'll confirm what you're running.

How bad is your jerking? Full on changarooing or mild shacking?

Mark’s (Blitz) non cat 500 map sounds like a good idea as it effectively gives you manual control of the lambda long trims so you maybe able to adjust out the jerking and I’m sure he’d send you a chip for a small fee.

Donkercam

22 posts

92 months

Tuesday 14th July
quotequote all
Hi

It's mild shacking, I want to conserve the cat.

Thanks

Cam

blitzracing

6,086 posts

178 months

Wednesday 15th July
quotequote all
There is a multitude of reasons for the shunting, so best to make sure everything else is well serviced before considering a new chip. The non catalyst fuel map will allow you to put a bit more fuel in and removes the fuel cycling for the catalyst, both can make the low speed manners better. On the cars I've tried this on, the physical catalysts remain in place, and have showed no signs of overheating ( that was a concern) and you can make the fuel map switchable so you can go back to the white catalyst map for your emissions test easily.

indigochim

962 posts

88 months

Wednesday 15th July
quotequote all
I have a 450 if I was to run an aftermarket set of manifolds with no cats at all would the "TVR Griffith 430 Precat & TVR Chimmaera 450 CAT combined in Land Rover final revision R3652" be the right code to stick on a chip?

I bought a writer and some chips some time back I fancy giving it a go.

davep

1,044 posts

242 months

Thursday 16th July
quotequote all
stevesprint said:
Dave,
.... As the injectors are fired twice for one valve opening you live in hope half a squirt goes straight into the cylinders without first collecting on the side walls and the back of the valves, maybe that’s why they are marginally smoother while bimbling along as I do, unlike you at Millbrook thumbup
Maybe the injector firing/inlet valve open for half a squirt scenario occurs but twice per engine cycle, but this depends very much on what else the ECU is doing:



Fuel stagnating in the inlet tract and on the inlet valve isn't going to be a problem, or is it?


Check out that big pressure pulse that occurs as a result of the valve closing.

stevesprint

Original Poster:

1,059 posts

137 months

Sunday 19th July
quotequote all
Donkercam said:
Hi
It's mild shacking, I want to conserve the cat.
Thanks
Cam
Sounds like it might be worth checking your vaccum advance, the diaphragms do perish after 20 years
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

stevesprint

Original Poster:

1,059 posts

137 months

Sunday 19th July
quotequote all
indigochim said:
I have a 450 if I was to run an aftermarket set of manifolds with no cats at all would the "TVR Griffith 430 Precat & TVR Chimmaera 450 CAT combined in Land Rover final revision R3652" be the right code to stick on a chip?

I bought a writer and some chips some time back I fancy giving it a go.
"TVR Griffith 430 Precat & TVR Chimmaera 450 CAT combined in Land Rover final revision R3652" contains the following so you can switch between the two maps

map 2 (Green non cat) is the factory 430 & 430BV Precat map
map 5 (White CAT) is the factory 450 CAT map that you are probably currently running but with later program code

Interestingly, the 430BV Precat map is richer than the 450 cat map and this 430BV Precat map runs ok in my 4.5 so might be ok in your 450 (4.6) but you should really get it checked on a rolling road.

Please let me know if you experience any issues with that combine tune especially with idle as we’ve learnt a lot since then and its probably time to update that tune.

stevesprint

Original Poster:

1,059 posts

137 months

Sunday 19th July
quotequote all
davep said:
Maybe the injector firing/inlet valve open for half a squirt scenario occurs but twice per engine cycle, but this depends very much on what else the ECU is doing:

Fuel stagnating in the inlet tract and on the inlet valve isn't going to be a problem, or is it?

Check out that big pressure pulse that occurs as a result of the valve closing.
Dave

To be clear we know the "injector firing/inlet valve open for half a squirt" twice per crank revolution therefore one per cam revolution.

Also don't forget the mechanical advance (upto +18°) and vacuum advance (upto +10°) will also alter the injector firing time up to 28°, I always assumed that's why the code smooths the rpm.

Are the pressure pulses the vacuum in the inlet?