Grief Update - Engine Rebuild

Grief Update - Engine Rebuild

Author
Discussion

jeboa

529 posts

225 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
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Hi Matthew,

Looks like an impressive build. Have you had any thoughts/advice on where to derive the vacuum for the brake servo? I ask because I’m going for a build with ITBs and am not 100% on what would be suitable.

I’m guessing a take off from a single ITB could be okay? My backup plan is an electric vacuum pump from a Diesel E-class. Might have to wait and see before I know how much vacuum a single cylinder will provide.

I’ve gone a different route for the heads, so will have some original cast TVR rocker covers available if you don’t already have them?

urquattroGus

1,458 posts

154 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
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Nice one matthew, your car already sounds amazing with the trick exhaust manifolds etc.

With downdraft jenveys iI think your car will sound and perform fantastically, not to mention the new engine build.

You might end up in full GT40 sound mode! The snakes nest and 8 downdraughts, joyous!

Matthew Poxon

Original Poster:

5,283 posts

137 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
quotequote all
900T-R said:
How about an airbox on top of the throttle bodies, with an air intake on the passenger side like the OE and ACT plenums... I saw a set up like that on an SD1 racer once, the airbox can be fairly low profile with trumpets/flares inside... I would wager that you'd suffer from heat soak in traffic with the air filters in the engine bay, racers don't tend to sit in traffic for long wink
Hi Eric, I do have a little space under the bonnet so fabricating an airbox should not be an issue. I am going to see how it goes without as I do like the look of the ITG filters and I do not want to lose the induction roar unless i have to. I have a feeling there may be a bit of trial and error with this project!



Matthew Poxon

Original Poster:

5,283 posts

137 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
quotequote all
jeboa said:
Hi Matthew,

Looks like an impressive build. Have you had any thoughts/advice on where to derive the vacuum for the brake servo? I ask because I’m going for a build with ITBs and am not 100% on what would be suitable.

I’m guessing a take off from a single ITB could be okay? My backup plan is an electric vacuum pump from a Diesel E-class. Might have to wait and see before I know how much vacuum a single cylinder will provide.

I’ve gone a different route for the heads, so will have some original cast TVR rocker covers available if you don’t already have them?
Hi Martin,

Thank you for your kind comments. When I spoke to JE about the vacuum he has provided a take off from one ITB so hopefully this will be sufficient, I believe the same arrangement works well on Ian's ITB car.

I have sent you a PM about the rocker covers. Sounds intriguing, are you going for aftermarket heads on yours?

Classic Chim

10,889 posts

113 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
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I think it was Peter who first mentioned to me how cold the plenum is immediately after a run and how hot it is after a few minutes stationary so I did a few hand feel tests over time on my own car.
Even on a warm day if your motoring the plenum is cold and made me realise the air really cools and promotes more power, heat is the enemy, it’s also quite impressive when it’s heat soaked and too hot to touch then get moving it cools down very quickly.

I’d look into the air pipe and how to direct it evenly at the filters as a serious tuning / extra power aide, but as you say if Ian has had no issues then maybe it’s not such a problem, the engine will be drawing in lots of air via those huge throttle bodies which must have its own benefits.

steve-V8s

2,624 posts

212 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
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I use just one vacuum feed which works fine, it is however slightly different because I have the JE crossover arrangement which has larger headers. JE originally provided take offs on several ports but I welded them up and used just one in the end.

In terms of getting the air in, experiments on the rollers found a fair bit more advance was possible with cold air via a bonnet cut-out. That was with a vented bonnet and fully ceramic coated exhaust manifolds. Air temps are not such a problem on the move but were when queuing for the start line, the inlet temp crept up and the ecu very reasonably reduced the advance to protect things.

What are you doing about crankcase breathing ?

Matthew Poxon

Original Poster:

5,283 posts

137 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
quotequote all
urquattroGus said:
Nice one matthew, your car already sounds amazing with the trick exhaust manifolds etc.

With downdraft jenveys iI think your car will sound and perform fantastically, not to mention the new engine build.

You might end up in full GT40 sound model. The snakes nest and 8 downdraughts, joyous!
Thank you very much sir. I am hoping the induction roar of the ITBs and the 180 degree manifold will make for a very nice sounding RV8.

Matthew Poxon

Original Poster:

5,283 posts

137 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
quotequote all
steve-V8s said:
I use just one vacuum feed which works fine, it is however slightly different because I have the JE crossover arrangement which has larger headers. JE originally provided take offs on several ports but I welded them up and used just one in the end.

In terms of getting the air in, experiments on the rollers found a fair bit more advance was possible with cold air via a bonnet cut-out. That was with a vented bonnet and fully ceramic coated exhaust manifolds. Air temps are not such a problem on the move but were when queuing for the start line, the inlet temp crept up and the ecu very reasonably reduced the advance to protect things.

What are you doing about crankcase breathing ?
That is good to know, many thanks Steve.

Crankcase breathing will be both rockers connected to an oil catch tank probably with AN-12 connections.

TV8

3,037 posts

139 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
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Hi Matthew,

this prompted me to look at the build sheet of my car and there a few similarities in the bore and crankshaft dimensions and lightweight rods and forged pistons as well! They looked impressive from underneath when I had the sump off on Peters ramp!

The car does rev freely, which sounds like the character you are after with the other investments!

One thing I did find is that the engine gives off a lot more heat than my old 400. So much so that I added an oil cooler - do you have one of those already?

I actually met someone at Spa who was buying a few of the things you have on your blog based on your write-ups! He particularly liked the tyres and the camera mounts but had never spoken with you.

chris52

1,537 posts

147 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
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Hi Matthew a very interesting engine build. I’m not wanting to scare you here but Foam filters are not the best for our FG cars as they can cause under bonnet fires.
The below is from their website so worth considering an air box not only for the cold air feed which will allow you to run more ignition advance as well as more power but for safety reasons as well.

Are the filters flame proof?
All of the Megaflow, JC70, JC71 and trumpet socks contain a self extinguishing layer within the foam, which prevent the filter setting alight from engine spit back.
If there is a particular concern that an engine is susceptible to fuel stand-off where a fine mist of fuel hovers over the ram pipes at certain points in the rev range and can be ignited if the engine misfires or spits back a flame, a stainless steel flame trap layer can be added to the inside of domed filters and the underside of panel filters to prevent this happening. This is also recommended for high value classic cars running carburettors or throttle bodies where the risk of an under bonnet fire far outweighs the extra cost involved.

Chris

Matthew Poxon

Original Poster:

5,283 posts

137 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
quotequote all
TV8 said:
Hi Matthew,

this prompted me to look at the build sheet of my car and there a few similarities in the bore and crankshaft dimensions and lightweight rods and forged pistons as well! They looked impressive from underneath when I had the sump off on Peters ramp!

The car does rev freely, which sounds like the character you are after with the other investments!

One thing I did find is that the engine gives off a lot more heat than my old 400. So much so that I added an oil cooler - do you have one of those already?

I actually met someone at Spa who was buying a few of the things you have on your blog based on your write-ups! He particularly liked the tyres and the camera mounts but had never spoken with you.
Hi Graham,

Yes I suspect I will end up with something very similar to what you already have, I know you are happy with yours and it is good to hear it is free revving. that dispels the myth that large capacity RV8s do not rev. Is yours a JE build?

Interesting to hear it gives off more heat, I suppose it stands to reason that a big jump in power will generate more heat. I had intended to fit an oil cooler but I will certainly keep an eye on the temps when running it in and on the first trackday outing.

Thanks for the feedback on the blog good to know people do look at it, I am glad the person you met found it useful.

Matthew Poxon

Original Poster:

5,283 posts

137 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
quotequote all
chris52 said:
Hi Matthew a very interesting engine build. I’m not wanting to scare you here but Foam filters are not the best for our FG cars as they can cause under bonnet fires.
The below is from their website so worth considering an air box not only for the cold air feed which will allow you to run more ignition advance as well as more power but for safety reasons as well.

Are the filters flame proof?
All of the Megaflow, JC70, JC71 and trumpet socks contain a self extinguishing layer within the foam, which prevent the filter setting alight from engine spit back.
If there is a particular concern that an engine is susceptible to fuel stand-off where a fine mist of fuel hovers over the ram pipes at certain points in the rev range and can be ignited if the engine misfires or spits back a flame, a stainless steel flame trap layer can be added to the inside of domed filters and the underside of panel filters to prevent this happening. This is also recommended for high value classic cars running carburettors or throttle bodies where the risk of an under bonnet fire far outweighs the extra cost involved.

Chris
I think I better look into this! Thanks for the heads up Chris.

mk1fan

9,894 posts

189 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
quotequote all
You could always add a scoop like the one on the other wedge at Cadwell last Friday. They had itb and foam filters. Inthink they've only had one under bonnet fire smile

QBee

18,084 posts

108 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
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I know the Griff has an extra small dial compared to the Chim - is it an oil temperature gauge?

I too have track day temperature concerns.
Mat Smith spent some time improving the airflow through my radiator, and on Friday's track day, when I was on the throttle for the bulk of every lap, my water temperature stayed sensible.

However, my newly fitted oil temperature gauge was suggesting I fit a bigger oil cooler.

Now, as you know, I have a turbo fitted to my 4.6.
But Mat Smith's race car is a 4.8, normally aspirated, and was showing similar water temperatures to my car (85-90 degrees) and similar oil temperatures (115 degrees).

So if you are considering track days with your new engine, may I suggest you discuss water cooling and oil cooling now - so much easier to incorporate from the start. My current oil cooler clearly isn't big enough.

TV8

3,037 posts

139 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
quotequote all
Matthew Poxon said:
Hi Graham,

Yes I suspect I will end up with something very similar to what you already have, I know you are happy with yours and it is good to hear it is free revving. that dispels the myth that large capacity RV8s do not rev. Is yours a JE build?

Interesting to hear it gives off more heat, I suppose it stands to reason that a big jump in power will generate more heat. I had intended to fit an oil cooler but I will certainly keep an eye on the temps when running it in and on the first trackday outing.

Thanks for the feedback on the blog good to know people do look at it, I am glad the person you met found it useful.
It’s a V8 development engine and compared with my 400 it puts out a lot of heat that wafts around the car in slow traffic. That might be what you are used to with your 500 but it came as a surprise for me!

As well as useful, I think he found the blog expensive biggrin

Boosted LS1

19,693 posts

224 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
quotequote all
A crank driven viscous fan cured my TT car from heat soak in traffic. One of my best mods but I don't know if you could squeeze one in a tiff.

petepetrolhead

135 posts

193 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
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Awesome engine spec Mr P bowbowbow

ITBs - way to go! I'd do the same if I was doing mine now but I've spent too much on getting the twin plenum working right eek

Got to agree about the need for fresh air breathing though - anyway it would look epic with some nice shiny trumpets! How about this approach:


Boosted LS1

19,693 posts

224 months

Tuesday 28th May 2019
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Hmm, that reminds me to buy some more goldfish. :-)

Classic Chim

10,889 posts

113 months

Wednesday 29th May 2019
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Fitting a race spec fire protection system might be a wise choice. They are very subtle other than the size of the bottle.
I like the enclosed idea with visible trumpets, early F1 kind of vibe.

The simple idea is to do a chilliwizz straight air filter arrangement directly in line with incoming air to ram it, split the air intake into two smaller pipes ( promoting flow rate ) and then shape them so they are directed towards the air filters possibly going from front of engine feeding air back up and over the filters towards the back, as Matt says the rear pots can draw fresh air from the windscreen mesh.
What that would do for engine management is another thing as its unmetered air?
Might actually add to the fire risk too yikes
Best talk to the experts Matt biglaugh




Matthew Poxon

Original Poster:

5,283 posts

137 months

Wednesday 29th May 2019
quotequote all
mk1fan said:
They had itb and foam filters. Inthink they've only had one under bonnet fire smile
Thanks Stewart laughlaughlaugh

I did have a look last night at the ITG filter I have and it is a JC50 Megaflow which does have according to ITG:

"a self extinguishing layer within the foam, which prevent the filter setting alight from engine spit back."

I will of course still check this with JE and Dom.