Ownership vs subscription

Ownership vs subscription

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Discussion

bloomen

Original Poster:

6,854 posts

158 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
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I was scrolling through my app list the other day and counted 5-6 of them that were paid for in full which have now been rescinded. In some cases the developers switched to a subscription model and the idea of paying $3-5 a month for a sodding ebook reader is laughable.

Similarly I was pondering a flight simulator on my phone for those idle moments. The most popular ones are subscription too and add up to over $100 a year for something that looks like I've drawn it.

Will we reach a stage where subscribing and leasing squishes the idea of ownership completely in many an area? Does that bother you or do you prefer the more ephemeral approach?

I wouldn't mind if it were definitively cheaper, and it can be for films and music. For software it seems vastly more expensive so my money will remain in my pocket and anyone who pulls the rug from something paid for gets a voodoo curse from me.

Turn7

23,502 posts

220 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
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I asked the same question a while ago,,,,

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
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Companies want to generate a constant, predictable revenue stream.

All they have to do is persuade the (mostly idiotic) public to go along with it.

I'm sure it makes sense to some people, but I'm temperamentally resistive to any attempt to get me to sign up to anything.

Spare tyre

9,458 posts

129 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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I guess it’s similar to the monthly office 465 a lot of people pay for. I struggle to pay for an app, can’t ever imagine leasing it!

Baldchap

7,507 posts

91 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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Back in the early noughties I worked for a company that leased its (very good) software to customers.

I remember at one meeting the MD saying that if nobody came to work we'd still make a million pounds per month in recurring revenue. I said to myself that day if I ever had a software product there's no way I'd ever sell it over leasing it.

kwaka jack

270 posts

171 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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Tesla are charging subscriptions fees for its navigation package and BMW are now looking at something similar with charging owners the use of heated seats and cruise control apparently.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-a...

bloomen

Original Poster:

6,854 posts

158 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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It'll be interesting to see how far they're willing to push it. There's a point where you're repelling many more people than you're profiting from. The apps that pulled the rug from owners and attempted to force them to subscribe are snowed under with negative reviews.

bigpriest

1,577 posts

129 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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Is there an issue with offering both subscription and one-off payment to keep all your customers happy? Pushing someone down the subscription route and then losing them as as a customer doesn't seem productive.

bloomen

Original Poster:

6,854 posts

158 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
quotequote all
bigpriest said:
Is there an issue with offering both subscription and one-off payment to keep all your customers happy? Pushing someone down the subscription route and then losing them as as a customer doesn't seem productive.
That would be the sensible option but I've yet to see anyone do it.

Another one that did this is Flightradar24. They transitioned to a subscription model, said the old paid for app would continue to work and then squished it. Cue - https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.flightradar24...

TheDrBrian

5,444 posts

221 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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bloomen said:
bigpriest said:
Is there an issue with offering both subscription and one-off payment to keep all your customers happy? Pushing someone down the subscription route and then losing them as as a customer doesn't seem productive.
That would be the sensible option but I've yet to see anyone do it.

Another one that did this is Flightradar24. They transitioned to a subscription model, said the old paid for app would continue to work and then squished it. Cue - https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.flightradar24...
The best way I’ve seen is to charge for the massive updates. One initial price for the software in perpetuity but then a charge for the next big update.


ReallyReallyGood

1,620 posts

129 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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For something like FlightRadar24 which is actually providing a service, it makes sense to charge it like a service, the business requires ongoing payments to keep their servers running, pay for api usage to get the telemetry, etc.

For access to physical features your car already has, such as heated seats.. lol no.

Plymo

1,149 posts

88 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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ReallyReallyGood said:
For something like FlightRadar24 which is actually providing a service, it makes sense to charge it like a service, the business requires ongoing payments to keep their servers running, pay for api usage to get the telemetry, etc.

For access to physical features your car already has, such as heated seats.. lol no.
Yep, when there is actually a "service" that involves them having to actually do something that does make more sense to have a subscription - otherwise they run the risk of everyone paying a one off fee and expecting the information to be updated for life...
Paying a one off and having it cancelled and replaced by subscription is not on though!

What I don't get are apps that are utilities and don't even need an internet connection to function being subscription only (such as some office type apps) it's pointless as once it's been made it's been made!

bluezedd

1,007 posts

81 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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I can't say I'm a fan of the subscription based services that are creeping into cars.

That said, I could say something like "I'm not going to buy a BMW or Tesla because of it", but the truth is that I wouldn't be buying one of those cars as I'm not their target market anyway. They are pretty concerning precedent to set though, which might creep into some lesser cars too.

I guess for a lot of people, they prefer the payment lifestyle, as can be seen by the popularity of car leases etc. That said, although I don't like leases and drive buckets, I also can't stand folk making wee digs to people who have them and reminding them that they don't own the car. It just screams of jealousy to me.

I'm all for folk spending their money on whatever they like.

Zetec-S

5,832 posts

92 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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I wonder whether in the future they'll offer app subscription packages, in much the same way that Netflix, Amazon, Sky, etc, have taken away the market for DVD's. So pay £xx per month to access a range of different apps.

eliot

11,364 posts

253 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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bloomen said:
That would be the sensible option but I've yet to see anyone do it.

Another one that did this is Flightradar24. They transitioned to a subscription model, said the old paid for app would continue to work and then squished it. Cue - https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.flightradar24...
Adsb is a piece of piss, £20 dongle and free software.
all those people feed into the likes of fr24 and these who don’t filter sensitive info from the feeds (because they know it’s futile - my single antenna does 200+ miles in all directions)
https://www.adsbexchange.com/


droopsnoot

11,810 posts

241 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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I think part of the issue is that stuff like Microsoft Office has so many features that, for most people, there's no reason to upgrade past about Office 2003, other than things like newer versions of Windows refusing to run the older versions.

I used to work for a business where we sold the software as a one-off charge, and we often wished we'd thought of doing it as a monthly fee. But, back then, that wasn't the done thing, we'd have been the only ones in the market segment doing that, and it probably wouldn't have worked. We used to sell a support agreement for ongoing revenue, which did the job reasonably nicely, and I think things were just turning to monthly subscriptions when we were taken over.

Hoofy

76,253 posts

281 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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Subscriptions only work for me if you're getting new stuff every month/week whatever. If you're just paying to access the same thing with no improvements (and in fact possibly getting worse over time due to machine specs/whatever context) then it should be an ownership model.

I do have some subscriptions (obviously - who doesn't?) and there is a reason why these make sense eg I can't afford to buy a tennis club, I get ongoing new videos/material every month.

bloomen

Original Poster:

6,854 posts

158 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
quotequote all
droopsnoot said:
I think part of the issue is that stuff like Microsoft Office has so many features that, for most people, there's no reason to upgrade past about Office 2003, other than things like newer versions of Windows refusing to run the older versions.
.
Yes. I still use 2007 and have barely scratched the surface.

Most of my other main programs are old too. I'm not going to edit with Adobe creative suite when I have Sony Vegas that's fully paid for.

Perhaps they will start to get more aggressive about this but that's going to drive me to find kludges purely out of principle.

red_slr

17,122 posts

188 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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Sage.

FML.

Chris Hinds

478 posts

164 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
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All depends on the rules of the game vs where you were before. I used to buy MS Office every 3rd version or so (4.3, 2000, 2013) at about £450 or so and used it to the limits of the licence (in that I had a laptop and a desktop throughout, but often my wife would be using one). So call it £450 over 5 years or about £90 a year. I now pay £70/year for Office 365 which has everything I was using before, 1TB of cloud storage and 5 users on 5 machines each. Hard to see a downside on that one for me.

Same with Apple Music - I pay £10 a month for whatever I want, where I used to buy ten or more CDs a year at £15. No biggie there either, my outgoings haven't really changed.

Physical hardware though? I buy that up front because typically I'll use it for longer than say a phone contract would expect me to.