Job offer

[JustinP1]

Olf said:

Okay, good, now what about if market pressures dictate they have to lay the employee off?

If they wanted to make the employee redundant, they would have to pay the agreed redundancy package as dictated in the employment contract. They would also have to fulfil any notice requirements as stated in the contract, in the same way the employee would should they wish to leave.

[Olf]

JustinP1 said:

Olf said:

Okay, good, now what about if market pressures dictate they have to lay the employee off?

If they wanted to make the employee redundant, they would have to pay the agreed redundancy package as dictated in the employment contract. They would also have to fulfil any notice requirements as stated in the contract, in the same way the employee would should they wish to leave.

Exactly. DTI say:

Redundancy payments

When is a redundancy payment due?

Your employer must give you a lump-sum payment if:

you are made redundant;
you have at least two years continuous service.

So in other words, unless something is in his contract (which for a graduate it wouldn't be), if they decided to make him redundant before he even started there would be absolutely nothing he could do about it. So market pressures could force his redundancy before he even started with no recourse for him. My argument, pure and simple, is why should Matt feel bound by the moral arguments you make. He should feel free to take advantage of employment market pressures, such as a better offer from another employer, to make sure his first position is the very best he can get.

[JustinP1]

Olf said:

JustinP1 said:

Olf said:

Okay, good, now what about if market pressures dictate they have to lay the employee off?

If they wanted to make the employee redundant, they would have to pay the agreed redundancy package as dictated in the employment contract. They would also have to fulfil any notice requirements as stated in the contract, in the same way the employee would should they wish to leave.

Exactly. DTI say:

Redundancy payments

When is a redundancy payment due?

Your employer must give you a lump-sum payment if:

you are made redundant;
you have at least two years continuous service.

So in other words, unless something is in his contract (which for a graduate it wouldn't be), if they decided to make him redundant before he even started there would be absolutely nothing he could do about it. So market pressures could force his redundancy before he even started with no recourse for him. My argument, pure and simple, is why should Matt feel bound by the moral arguments you make. He should feel free to take advantage of employment market pressures, such as a better offer from another employer, to make sure his first position is the very best he can get.

We are making a few assumptions here, including that in the contract there is no set redundancy set. Furthermore, it is not as easy as you may think to legally perform a redundancy. Technically as well as having to support the reasons behind it, the position must cease to exist - the larger the company, the more difficult it is to justify this whilst not offering a similar position.

Even *if* we are to assume all of the above, and that Matt would have no recourse in law (of which I doubt) that just because that for some period the law, statutes or a contract not be in your favour, that does not make it lawful to ignore the binding terms.

This all comes down to exactly what the contract states. It is also an important point that if you do not intend to be bound by contract terms, you shouldnt sign it. I would say that the prudent thing to do is just to be completely open and honest with the employer. If Matt has doubts about the contract he can raise them or have them included. Similarly if he wants it to be the case that he has the right to give notice before the employement starts, then this is something he could discuss - the worst they can say is no, at least then he would know the score!

My personal advice would be to explain the situation fully, being honest about everything, including the fact that Matt is worried that he could be given a better offer! That would be the perfect time for him to negotiate or renegotiate anything he is unhappy with.

My personal opinion is doing all this 'behind the back' of the employer is not just bad for karma, it may come back to bite later.