ULEZ penalty - worth challenging or not?
Discussion
Looking for advice. We travelled to London just before Christmas to collect a family member's dog we were looking after while they went away. Intended to pay ULEZ charge but with Christmas only days away forgot about it for about 4 days. I then tried to pay it online and realised I couldn't as they only give you 3 days to pay. I wrote to the charge authority saying I wanted to pay, had been in the zone and accepted my mistake. They wrote back saying there was no facility to pay outside 3 days and I would just have to wait for a penalty notice - none came so we thought we had escaped.
We then received a letter in February telling us that the we had failed to pay our fine in response to their penalty charge notice so the amount we owed had now risen to £240 which frankly is extortionate. I wrote a letter of appeal which they have investigated and dismissed and they have written again now in March basically saying unless we had a valid reason for not paying like being in hospital etc and can prove it then we owe £240.
My objections to this are two-fold:
1. I think it's unreasonable that when we contacted the authority outside the 3 day payment window and before a penalty notice had been issued they refused to accept payment
2. We never receieved the first penalty charge notice at which point I could have just paid them £50 or whatever and put it down to experience. Given they don't send these things by any form of registered post I fail to see how they can prove they sent it or we received it? Thus we were denied the opportunity to cap our losses at a more modest fee.
My question is if we should just pay up the £240 or if this is worth pursuing and letting them go to court over it. If we did that do we have a reasonable chance of winning?
Money is tight just now because thanks to illness I have been unable to work for 12 months. I am hoping to retunr to work in the next month or two.
Grateful for any advice,
Saxon
We then received a letter in February telling us that the we had failed to pay our fine in response to their penalty charge notice so the amount we owed had now risen to £240 which frankly is extortionate. I wrote a letter of appeal which they have investigated and dismissed and they have written again now in March basically saying unless we had a valid reason for not paying like being in hospital etc and can prove it then we owe £240.
My objections to this are two-fold:
1. I think it's unreasonable that when we contacted the authority outside the 3 day payment window and before a penalty notice had been issued they refused to accept payment
2. We never receieved the first penalty charge notice at which point I could have just paid them £50 or whatever and put it down to experience. Given they don't send these things by any form of registered post I fail to see how they can prove they sent it or we received it? Thus we were denied the opportunity to cap our losses at a more modest fee.
My question is if we should just pay up the £240 or if this is worth pursuing and letting them go to court over it. If we did that do we have a reasonable chance of winning?
Money is tight just now because thanks to illness I have been unable to work for 12 months. I am hoping to retunr to work in the next month or two.
Grateful for any advice,
Saxon
You had a 72hr window in which to pay, you failed to do that (whether reasonable or not) and so incurred the fixed penalty. You writing after 3 days and asking to pay is irrelevant, the penalty was incurred as soon as that 72hr window closed.
Now, you mention a £50 fine, is that the actual value of the initial notice and this secondary notice has added further charges or are you speculating? A quick look on TFL suggests the fine is £180 and halved if paid within 14days of receipt, my assumption would be that you incurred a further £60 admin charge but I could be wrong.
I wouldn't be challenging the fixed penalty, you got due to your own mistake. I would however be challenging that I'd never received the first notice in the hopes that they'd reinstate the 50% discount that's open the first 14 days after the charge is issued.
Now, you mention a £50 fine, is that the actual value of the initial notice and this secondary notice has added further charges or are you speculating? A quick look on TFL suggests the fine is £180 and halved if paid within 14days of receipt, my assumption would be that you incurred a further £60 admin charge but I could be wrong.
I wouldn't be challenging the fixed penalty, you got due to your own mistake. I would however be challenging that I'd never received the first notice in the hopes that they'd reinstate the 50% discount that's open the first 14 days after the charge is issued.
Yes challenge the fact that you never received the original penalty notice, hopefully they will let you pay the original reduced amount. When they rejected your original appeal was there an option for a further appeal to an ombudsman or appeal panel?
You can auto register for free now, so I suggest you do that, just in case you go into the ULEZ again, remember it is coming out to cover the whole of London later this year.
You can auto register for free now, so I suggest you do that, just in case you go into the ULEZ again, remember it is coming out to cover the whole of London later this year.
Edited by megaphone on Thursday 23 March 08:55
I can only tell you of my experience, which was similar to yours.
I once forgot to pay the congestion charge and, like yourself, I called to pay it a coupe of days later. I was also told that I was too late, and that they couldn't take payment and I'd receive a fine. I appealed the fine on the grounds that I wasn't intending to avoid payment and had indeed try to pay, albeit late. The appeal was rejected and I was told I could appeal that, which would go to a tribunal, and so I appealed the rejection. I was then informed of a tribunal date, but was told that it wasn't necessary for me to attend in person. However, I wrote back saying that I would attend. In response to advising them that I'd be attending the tribunal, I received a letter saying that they had mysteriously lost the paperwork and so would be taking no further action.
So, by all means appeal, and take it as far as you can go. It may work for you, or it might not. Technically they're in the right, but I'm tired of things like this, and parking fines, where people are penalised according to the letter of the law, whilst trying to act within the spirit of it.
I once forgot to pay the congestion charge and, like yourself, I called to pay it a coupe of days later. I was also told that I was too late, and that they couldn't take payment and I'd receive a fine. I appealed the fine on the grounds that I wasn't intending to avoid payment and had indeed try to pay, albeit late. The appeal was rejected and I was told I could appeal that, which would go to a tribunal, and so I appealed the rejection. I was then informed of a tribunal date, but was told that it wasn't necessary for me to attend in person. However, I wrote back saying that I would attend. In response to advising them that I'd be attending the tribunal, I received a letter saying that they had mysteriously lost the paperwork and so would be taking no further action.
So, by all means appeal, and take it as far as you can go. It may work for you, or it might not. Technically they're in the right, but I'm tired of things like this, and parking fines, where people are penalised according to the letter of the law, whilst trying to act within the spirit of it.
Thanks guys especially Qjumper - I'm heartened to hear of your experience and can only hope they 'lose my paperwork' too!! As you say you and I while technically in the wrong were actually trying to 'do the right thing' and the authorities just seem to love throwing their weight about over people who are inherently law abiding.
I think I will do as you say and let it go to a tribunal and see what they do. The mere fact they don't send out initial penalty notices via registered and tracked post is ridiculous if they intend it to be legally binding. The truth is they cannot prove they even sent the first notice so escalating the fines on the basis I never responded to a document I never received is just plain ridiculous!
Many thanks,
Saxon
I think I will do as you say and let it go to a tribunal and see what they do. The mere fact they don't send out initial penalty notices via registered and tracked post is ridiculous if they intend it to be legally binding. The truth is they cannot prove they even sent the first notice so escalating the fines on the basis I never responded to a document I never received is just plain ridiculous!
Many thanks,
Saxon
You can't 'let it go to a tribunal'. You need to take the appeal to the tribunal, there is an appeals process which you need to follow, the next steps are laid out in the appeal rejection you would have received.
If you just leave it you will get larger fines/fees and end up with a CCJ or something similar.
If you just leave it you will get larger fines/fees and end up with a CCJ or something similar.
I'm very grateful to all of you for your help and advice - just an update in case it helps anyone in the future.
I picked up the phone and politely spoke to the ULEZ people and explained that I had never received the original penalty charge notice. She initially said she could reduce the amount owing from £240 to £160 but I went on to politely query if this is what I would have paid if I had responded promptly to it and suggested that had that happened I would have only had to pay £80.
She then agreed to reduce the penalty to the original £80 charge so I paid it.
I feel that was annoying but fair. At the end of the day their rule is to pay in 3 days or receive an £80 fine so given I didn't pay within 3 days I suppose that I therefore felt obliged to pay what was due. In any case it's a lot better than £240.
Saxon
I picked up the phone and politely spoke to the ULEZ people and explained that I had never received the original penalty charge notice. She initially said she could reduce the amount owing from £240 to £160 but I went on to politely query if this is what I would have paid if I had responded promptly to it and suggested that had that happened I would have only had to pay £80.
She then agreed to reduce the penalty to the original £80 charge so I paid it.
I feel that was annoying but fair. At the end of the day their rule is to pay in 3 days or receive an £80 fine so given I didn't pay within 3 days I suppose that I therefore felt obliged to pay what was due. In any case it's a lot better than £240.
Saxon
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