Son wants to be a pilot
Discussion
I did a search but came up with a thread from 2006. My 19-year-old son decided uni was not for him and is currently working 50+ hours in a pub and really enjoying it. He has decided he wants to become a pilot and we have a meeting with a flight school next week. Can someone in the industry give me a realistic picture of the industry at present? He was studying architecture and we were prepared to pay for his study and living fees over the seven-year course. Realistically if we pay a ballpark figure of £80 to £100k how hard will it be in a few years to progress into being a first officer?
Jer_1974 said:
I did a search but came up with a thread from 2006. My 19-year-old son decided uni was not for him and is currently working 50+ hours in a pub and really enjoying it. He has decided he wants to become a pilot and we have a meeting with a flight school next week. Can someone in the industry give me a realistic picture of the industry at present? He was studying architecture and we were prepared to pay for his study and living fees over the seven-year course. Realistically if we pay a ballpark figure of £80 to £100k how hard will it be in a few years to progress into being a first officer?
El Stovey is your man.Being a pilot requires long-term commitment. Not only commitment to study hard, work hard and do the necessary bits to obtain the licence, but then commitment to finding a job and eventually commitment to the job itself; the learning curve never stops and you’ll be grilled in a simulator twice a year to keep your licence. Along with the dynamics of airline flying; it’s a 24/7/365 job. For example, last week I was just getting home and off to bed at 0600 after a long trip, this morning I was up at 0330 to fly a short trip. It wreaks havoc with your home/social life but if it’s absolutely your passion, it’s the best job in the world. Your son will need to be absolutely sure he wants to go down this route; it’s a huge financial outlay for the licence with zero guarantee of a job at the end, but if he is absolutely sure about it and ready to commit himself to it, it’s an absolutely fantastic job.
It’s impossible to say what the airline pilot job market will look like next year, let alone in several years. Covid-19 is the perfect example of a black swan event coming along and throwing a rather large spanner in the works. Aviation is slowly recovering but as usual there’s plenty of uncertainty at the moment; events in Ukraine for example.
If your son is serious about it, first step is obtaining a Class 1 medical from the CAA. One word about flight schools… in my experience, they’ll always paint the picture about future pilot shortage, how now is a great time to train to become a pilot etc.. It’s worth remembering that these schools are businesses at the end of the day and designed primarily to make money, the means of which are via churning out folks with shiny new licences. Go in with your eyes open and under no illusion that any particular flight school guarantees or increases the likelihood of getting a job, and you should be OK.
It’s impossible to say what the airline pilot job market will look like next year, let alone in several years. Covid-19 is the perfect example of a black swan event coming along and throwing a rather large spanner in the works. Aviation is slowly recovering but as usual there’s plenty of uncertainty at the moment; events in Ukraine for example.
If your son is serious about it, first step is obtaining a Class 1 medical from the CAA. One word about flight schools… in my experience, they’ll always paint the picture about future pilot shortage, how now is a great time to train to become a pilot etc.. It’s worth remembering that these schools are businesses at the end of the day and designed primarily to make money, the means of which are via churning out folks with shiny new licences. Go in with your eyes open and under no illusion that any particular flight school guarantees or increases the likelihood of getting a job, and you should be OK.
Has he ever flown a plane before? Definitely worth having a few trial lessons, cost is minimal in the grand scheme of things.
If he decides he wants to pursue it get him to do his medical before he/you start handing over money to anyone else.
Aviation is recovering nicely but we can all see what is happening with the wider global economy. No guarantees in the industry.
If he decides he wants to pursue it get him to do his medical before he/you start handing over money to anyone else.
Aviation is recovering nicely but we can all see what is happening with the wider global economy. No guarantees in the industry.
Someone I worked with followed a dream to become a pilot. Sold a business in Financial Services and it only lasted for 18 months as the carrier folded and he wasn't able to get on anywhere else. Back in Financial Services now, but working for a company rather than having own business.
Bear in mind that once he has a job he could be moved from his base if the airline decide to stop flying that route. Fine if you live around London where you have a choice of airports not so nice if you live away from main airfields. Split shifts, nights, weekend working does knock hell out of you social life. Is he intending to get married? Moving house for job especially when you have children is not good.
Having said that great job, much satisfaction and great lifestyle if you are single.
As said above get a first class medical first, if he has a trial lesson first he will become hooked, I know I did.
Good luck!
Having said that great job, much satisfaction and great lifestyle if you are single.
As said above get a first class medical first, if he has a trial lesson first he will become hooked, I know I did.
Good luck!
As has been said get a class 1 medical before doing anything else. Apply here for the full Nigel experience; you still need to find ~£100k though.
First thing I’d say is to completely ignore anything the flight school has to say about the state of the industry. For them there’s always a pilot shortage and you won’t get an honest answer.
Second, success in the industry is hugely dependent on luck. Some people are simply unlucky and qualify during a downturn or join airlines that fail and end up at the back of the queue again. Some people get lucky and join an outfit that grows rapidly and end up with command within a few years. Some very talented people can’t pass interviews and selections. Some not-so-talented people can!
Third, it’s a fairly brutal industry. In terms of lifestyle, fatigue, job security, time away from family, keeping your licence and medical current - all sorts of things. It’s rarely easy. I probably wouldn’t do it again.
But, when it’s all going well, it can be really, REALLY, excellent. When you’re being paid to drink coffee for 12 hours and stare at the northern lights over northern Canada on a west coast US to Europe flight it can be really f
king cool. And when you realise you’ve been to a good chunk of the world at someone else’s expense that’s even better.
I’d honestly just say ‘does he feel lucky’?
Edit: One other thing…..post Brexit and our exit from EASA, I’d definitely look into whether it’s possible to obtain both the UK licence and an EASA licence at the same time somehow. The EASA licence, I feel, will become increasingly important.
From last week:
And fifteen years of travel:
Second, success in the industry is hugely dependent on luck. Some people are simply unlucky and qualify during a downturn or join airlines that fail and end up at the back of the queue again. Some people get lucky and join an outfit that grows rapidly and end up with command within a few years. Some very talented people can’t pass interviews and selections. Some not-so-talented people can!
Third, it’s a fairly brutal industry. In terms of lifestyle, fatigue, job security, time away from family, keeping your licence and medical current - all sorts of things. It’s rarely easy. I probably wouldn’t do it again.
But, when it’s all going well, it can be really, REALLY, excellent. When you’re being paid to drink coffee for 12 hours and stare at the northern lights over northern Canada on a west coast US to Europe flight it can be really f
king cool. And when you realise you’ve been to a good chunk of the world at someone else’s expense that’s even better. I’d honestly just say ‘does he feel lucky’?
Edit: One other thing…..post Brexit and our exit from EASA, I’d definitely look into whether it’s possible to obtain both the UK licence and an EASA licence at the same time somehow. The EASA licence, I feel, will become increasingly important.
From last week:
And fifteen years of travel:
Edited by Crumpet on Monday 2nd May 12:20
croyde said:
Genuine question.
Isn't long haul boring unless you have storms to avoid or a minor mishap?
Boring in aviation is good! Excitement usually means something is going wrong. Isn't long haul boring unless you have storms to avoid or a minor mishap?
To be honest it does depend on your crew; a dull crew makes for a dull cruise. And a good crew makes all the difference. The interesting part is the destinations and I actually have very little interest in aviation or flying.
I tend to just read magazines, sleep (controlled rest) and chat b
ks. And drink coffee. Lots of coffee! As we have no cockpit door (long range business jet) we’ll often have passengers come to the front and chat - so we get to meet some interesting people as well. 
I work in the engineering side of it and the industry certainly has a lot of negatives.
A lot of the airline flying is pushing buttons and then following checklists.
The entry level pay isn't in line with the effort and outlay needed to obtain your license (be that engineer or flight crew!). It takes years to get to a decent salary and even then its comfortable not 'mega', you won't be lording it up by any stretch of the imagination and wages/conditions have only gone one way through covid.
As mentioned its lots of 3am starts, 2am finishes, bank Holidays and weekends missed, delays and brief stops in the same hotels you've been in 50 times before!
Depends what you want in life I suppose!
A lot of the airline flying is pushing buttons and then following checklists.
The entry level pay isn't in line with the effort and outlay needed to obtain your license (be that engineer or flight crew!). It takes years to get to a decent salary and even then its comfortable not 'mega', you won't be lording it up by any stretch of the imagination and wages/conditions have only gone one way through covid.
As mentioned its lots of 3am starts, 2am finishes, bank Holidays and weekends missed, delays and brief stops in the same hotels you've been in 50 times before!
Depends what you want in life I suppose!
Jakey123 said:
I work in the engineering side of it and the industry certainly has a lot of negatives.
A lot of the airline flying is pushing buttons and then following checklists.
The entry level pay isn't in line with the effort and outlay needed to obtain your license (be that engineer or flight crew!). It takes years to get to a decent salary and even then its comfortable not 'mega', you won't be lording it up by any stretch of the imagination and wages/conditions have only gone one way through covid.
As mentioned its lots of 3am starts, 2am finishes, bank Holidays and weekends missed, delays and brief stops in the same hotels you've been in 50 times before!
Depends what you want in life I suppose!
You’re not wrong. But you do have to now factor in the cost of getting a degree being £50k or so. So the £100k (or whatever it is now) to get a pilot licence isn’t as horrific as it sounds and the pay for a new FO would be similar to most graduate jobs. But there aren’t many industries where you can go from £25k to £125k in five years - which is doable, albeit difficult. A lot of the airline flying is pushing buttons and then following checklists.
The entry level pay isn't in line with the effort and outlay needed to obtain your license (be that engineer or flight crew!). It takes years to get to a decent salary and even then its comfortable not 'mega', you won't be lording it up by any stretch of the imagination and wages/conditions have only gone one way through covid.
As mentioned its lots of 3am starts, 2am finishes, bank Holidays and weekends missed, delays and brief stops in the same hotels you've been in 50 times before!
Depends what you want in life I suppose!
I spend Christmas away from home every other year. Which is f
king st when you have young kids. Some good advice on here already and the only two bits I'd add:
1) Getting a medical and paying for a few lessons will be worth their weight in gold for a long list of reasons.
2) If he really wants to make it as a pilot he will....it's a tough place to get a break but for a determined individual they will make it so. If he wants to be a pilot just because "reasons" he/you are potentially throwing away a small mortgage (£120-150k) at something he may not succeed at. To go back to point 1 - throwing every penny/spare minute he has will pay dividends - hanging out at local flying clubs after a lesson and offering to help push aircraft around/refuel etc is also a great networking opportunity too. Lots of commercial pilots fly for fun and you never know who you might meet.....
I don't fly for the airlines and have a very different flying role taking workers out to oil rigs and boats (after being a military pilot) but it is still a brilliant career and foreign travel/white shirts and fresh coffee aside it compares very well otherwise with the airlines. Having said that, I recently completed a course in Human Factors which had some interesting statistics that might raise an eyebrow, only 19% of commercial pilots would recommend their children go into the same career. Don't know where I stand TBH as the job is changing so much, but it is still better than working for a living
It is quite easy to assume that throwing £120k+ at a flying school, who will give you the hard sell about pilot shortages will get your son into the LHS of a long haul legacy airline earning big bucks, but the reality will likely be very different. There are a lot of very talented, determined and hard-working kids with Instrument ratings who are working for pennies teaching circuits in C152s, dropping parachutists or earning 20-30k getting thrashed on Turboprops. Best of luck to him but before you/he jump into getting the cheque book out, remember Caveat Emptor.
1) Getting a medical and paying for a few lessons will be worth their weight in gold for a long list of reasons.
2) If he really wants to make it as a pilot he will....it's a tough place to get a break but for a determined individual they will make it so. If he wants to be a pilot just because "reasons" he/you are potentially throwing away a small mortgage (£120-150k) at something he may not succeed at. To go back to point 1 - throwing every penny/spare minute he has will pay dividends - hanging out at local flying clubs after a lesson and offering to help push aircraft around/refuel etc is also a great networking opportunity too. Lots of commercial pilots fly for fun and you never know who you might meet.....
I don't fly for the airlines and have a very different flying role taking workers out to oil rigs and boats (after being a military pilot) but it is still a brilliant career and foreign travel/white shirts and fresh coffee aside it compares very well otherwise with the airlines. Having said that, I recently completed a course in Human Factors which had some interesting statistics that might raise an eyebrow, only 19% of commercial pilots would recommend their children go into the same career. Don't know where I stand TBH as the job is changing so much, but it is still better than working for a living
It is quite easy to assume that throwing £120k+ at a flying school, who will give you the hard sell about pilot shortages will get your son into the LHS of a long haul legacy airline earning big bucks, but the reality will likely be very different. There are a lot of very talented, determined and hard-working kids with Instrument ratings who are working for pennies teaching circuits in C152s, dropping parachutists or earning 20-30k getting thrashed on Turboprops. Best of luck to him but before you/he jump into getting the cheque book out, remember Caveat Emptor.
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