New kitchen install - one builder? or manage trades?

[torqueofthedevil]

I am thinking about replacing our kitchen. Due to the size of the room (its basiclly an open plan kitchen / dining room / living space) and the fact that it needs a total over haul, any works would involve ripping out the old, new plastering, new electrical works (lights and sockets), bit of plumbing (to suit new kitchen layout), flooring etc.

I have mates in each trade to do each of the seperate jobs but I'm thinking it would be much easier to ask a builder just to do the lot. especially as i work away, previous projects such as a new bathroom probably took longer thn they should trying to manage 3 different trades.

It would take some coordination seperately, but id have more confidence that each one would do their bit better than a jack of all trades builder.

Any experience?

[evoivboy]

yes, kitchen specialist will do eveything like mine

[Busa mav]

It would be good to have one person responsible for the lot.


" kitchen specialist " always means failed carpenter to me.

[mart77]

what area are you in?me and the lad i work with project manage jobs like this.we are kitchen fitters but we have electricians and plasterers and gas fitters who work with us.

[5potTurbo]

mart77 said:

what area are you in?me and the lad i work with project manage jobs like this.we are kitchen fitters but we have electricians and plasterers and gas fitters who work with us.

OP: West Yorkshire in his profile

You: West Midlands I yours... Too far?

[rufusgti]

Busa mav said:

It would be good to have one person responsible for the lot.


" kitchen specialist " always means failed carpenter to me.

I really don't agree. As a carpenter, I know plenty of other carpenters. Very few I'd trust to fit a kitchen. But I know "kitchen fitters" who are very very good at it. Efficient, tidy, very anal about finnish. I'd like to think I'm good at a wide range of carpentry, but I'd happily recommend other carpenters. Some for roof work, some kitchens, it's a very broad trade with lots of different specialities. Back in the day people thought it was all about being able to use your head and the tools, and I suppose it is. But experience in different products is very important and not every carpenter can acquire this, especially as industry moves so quickly these days.

[singlecoil]

rufusgti said:

I really don't agree. As a carpenter, I know plenty of other carpenters. Very few I'd trust to fit a kitchen. But I know "kitchen fitters" who are very very good at it. Efficient, tidy, very anal about finnish. I'd like to think I'm good at a wide range of carpentry, but I'd happily recommend other carpenters. Some for roof work, some kitchens, it's a very broad trade with lots of different specialities. Back in the day people thought it was all about being able to use your head and the tools, and I suppose it is. But experience in different products is very important and not every carpenter can acquire this, especially as industry moves so quickly these days.

Good post, very much in line with my own experience.

[Honestherbert]

Shame you so far away OP as its exactly what we do!! I would say go with one company to complete the works, they then have full responsibility for the work done, it can become a nightmare trying to manage 3-4 different trades when you are watching over them, let alone when your XXX miles away and doing it over the phone!

I also agree with the posts above regarding kitchen fitters,lots of trades specialise in areas they enjoy/interest them the most in their field

Good luck!

[Neil - YVM]

Honestherbert said:

Shame you so far away OP as its exactly what we do!! I would say go with one company to complete the works, they then have full responsibility for the work done, it can become a nightmare trying to manage 3-4 different trades when you are watching over them, let alone when your XXX miles away and doing it over the phone!

I also agree with the posts above regarding kitchen fitters,lots of trades specialise in areas they enjoy/interest them the most in their field

Good luck!

Fully agree. This is also what I do, and by dealing with the full project, including all trades, we take away a lot of stress from a customer.
But as above the OP is too far for us to be able to help.

Kitchen fitters failed carpenters? Far from it, although with the downturn in new house building there are a lot of carpenters now trying their hand an fitting kitchens. Some will be good, other not so, but as with all things, somebody who specialises in an area will have the skills, tools, and experience to do a better job, than someone just turning their hand to it.

[hedgefinder]

Busa mav said:

It would be good to have one person responsible for the lot.


" kitchen specialist " always means failed carpenter to me.

generally means "carpenter who wanted to make much more money" to me...

kitchen supplier and installer for the past 20 years...

[Wozy68]

hedgefinder said:

Busa mav said:

It would be good to have one person responsible for the lot.


" kitchen specialist " always means failed carpenter to me.

generally means "carpenter who wanted to make much more money" to me...

kitchen supplier and installer for the past 20 years...

+1. Plus I aint no carpenter neither.

[hairyben]

I'd manage trades myself these days. More effort and takes longer but you'll get the job done right, way too much bodging going on these days- evan high street stores, everyone from big names to long established independent businesses just send a tribe of polish who'll bodge it all up.

And you'll pay less for the job to be completed.

[anonymous-user]

Sweeping generalisations are alive and well on PH I see

[hairyben]

garyhun said:

Sweeping generalisations are alive and well on PH I see

I know it's oh so right-on to scoff at that remark but it's borne of years of experience I'm afraid!

I'd love to say "use a company that'll manage it from start to finish" - as a tradesman, having to work around stupid errors and explain in simpletalk everything in triplicate to clients attempting to project manage is a pain in the proverbial, but be that as it may my advice is still the best advice for the man asking the question. Unless he knows a company with a proven good record, get hands on.

[anonymous-user]

hairyben said:

I know it's oh so right-on to scoff at that remark but it's borne of years of experience I'm afraid!
.

Nothing 'oh so right-on' about it. My experience of using kitchen companies has been excellent and your comment was a total, and inaccurate in my opinion, generalisation - pure and simple.

Maybe there's a reason you've had bad experience?

[hairyben]

garyhun said:

Nothing 'oh so right-on' about it. My experience of using kitchen companies has been excellent and your comment was a total, and inaccurate in my opinion, generalisation - pure and simple.

Maybe there's a reason you've had bad experience?

My "reasoning" is spending too much time having to advise on and put right bodged work, the aggro of dealing with distraught and uphappy customers who've already paid once, the lack of job satisfaction in having to clean up after these animals.

Also, I never said good kitchen fitting companies don't exist. I said bodging was scandalously widespread; fact is, as with everything, such companies are very good at drawing in the unwary.

[Craikeybaby]

When we got our kitchen done we went for getting the kitchen company to manage everything, except for the electics as we were having a full rewire done and their electrician wouldn't put CAT5 in.

In the end it was an OK job, the plastering etc wasn't great, because it was their fitter that did it, rather than a plasterer, so for the next job (bathroom) we've got a different plaster in and a separate bathroom guy.

[Battlecat]

We are currently having our kitchen re-done at the moment which includes quite extensive works including removing 2 walls, changing the openings of windows, new drainage route etc to create much more open space.

We have a builder instructed to carry out everything including fitting the kitchen, the only separate trade that I'm arranging is the floor fitting. Otherwise the electrician, plumber, plasterer, window fitter, and carpenter are sub-contractors of his. The builder came recommended to us but I would certainly not have liked to have left him to it without seeing progress every day. We're only 1 week in of a c. 6 week project and already I've needed to be around to sort out decisions on lighting and brickwork. I won't go into detail but I can't help but feel that if I'd gone away for 6 weeks I would come back to decisions that had been made which I wouldn't agree with.

I'm sure much of the other advice / comments come from more experienced people than myself, but unless you have absolute confidence in your builder I wouldn't like to be in a position where I couldn't see progress regularly. If this isn't an option then I would recommend that your drawings and instructions are VERY detailed and nothing is left undefined.

[singlecoil]

Battlecat said:

I'm sure much of the other advice / comments come from more experienced people than myself, but unless you have absolute confidence in your builder I wouldn't like to be in a position where I couldn't see progress regularly. If this isn't an option then I would recommend that your drawings and instructions are VERY detailed and nothing is left undefined.

I frequently have to check things with my customers, there's only so many decisions people want to make at any given point, especially with a design that has been evolved over a period of weeks or months. Not only that, but sometimes things don't become apparent until a particular stage has been arrived at.

I wouldn't see that as a shortcoming on anyone's part, it's just the way these things go sometimes.

[Little Lofty]

Battlecat said:

We are currently having our kitchen re-done at the moment which includes quite extensive works including removing 2 walls, changing the openings of windows, new drainage route etc to create much more open space.

We have a builder instructed to carry out everything including fitting the kitchen, the only separate trade that I'm arranging is the floor fitting. Otherwise the electrician, plumber, plasterer, window fitter, and carpenter are sub-contractors of his. The builder came recommended to us but I would certainly not have liked to have left him to it without seeing progress every day. We're only 1 week in of a c. 6 week project and already I've needed to be around to sort out decisions on lighting and brickwork. I won't go into detail but I can't help but feel that if I'd gone away for 6 weeks I would come back to decisions that had been made which I wouldn't agree with.

I'm sure much of the other advice / comments come from more experienced people than myself, but unless you have absolute confidence in your builder I wouldn't like to be in a position where I couldn't see progress regularly. If this isn't an option then I would recommend that your drawings and instructions are VERY detailed and nothing is left undefined.

I'd see that as a positive not a negative, it would have been much easier for your builder to plough on and do it the way he'd like it, but he's taking time out to ask for your opinion, after all your going to be living there not him.I always ask for my customers input, most drawings/ plans can be improved upon on site once the project commences, and just because I like something it doesn't mean my customer will.