Another one for the lawyers!!
Discussion
I bought a new Honda Civic type R at the end of July.
As i drove it home from the dealers I noticed the steering wheel was off centre.
I took it into my local Honda dealers the next day and they repositioned it.
The next day, i noticed that it had moved and was again off centre.
I took it into the dealers again and left it while they did a 4 wheel alignment check. I collected the car, and although the wheel was straight at first, after a few miles it had moved again. I turned round and took it back to the dealers, who were as mystified as me as to how this could happen.
It was booked in yet again, and they were advised by Honda to loosen all the suspension and steering components and retighten them.
This they did. The steering wheel remained straight for the weekend. Unfortunately, the car had developed an alarming trait where it would now appear to steer from the rear.
I took it back again (5th time).
They readjusted the rear camber and tracking. I collected the car and although the rear end steer has been cured, the steering wheel once more is off centre.
I again turned round and went back to the garage to finally complain. (I had been very patient upuntil then.)
The service manager could not explain why the steering was off centre again, but did tell me that they could not get the rear camber within manufacturers tolerances.
Not happy, i spoke to my insurers, who told me that in the event of a crash, and it became apparent that I was driving a car with such a problem, my policy would be void. This was confirmed by my son who works for Churchill in Nottingham.
I then phoned Honda UK and explained the problems with the car and that I wished to reject the car on the grounds that they had had 5 opportunities to fix it, and could not even find the problem.
The girl I spoke agreed with me , spoke to her manager and agreed to exchange the car for a new one. Her problem, she explained to me, was that she would need to talk to the supplying dealer, get a valuation aand then order a new car. She was also going to arrange a hire car for me in the meantime and call me back today.
After 3 calls to her, I managed to get hold of her at 3
p.m.
Her story now was that sometime next week, they would like a Honda engineer to look at my car before making a decision.
Not happy at that, I spoke to her manager, who confirmed that they wanted a Honda engineer to inspect the car, and if they could effect a repair,no exchange would take place.
I would not agree to that, told her that i had an agreement with the girl I initially spoke to and they should stick to that, not introduce more hurdles and faff for me to go through.
My stance is that the dealers act as Hondas agents, have liased with their tech support and have had 5 opportunities to fix the car and failed.
Having been offered a new car, that is what I want now.
I have a car on my drive that technically I should not drive.
Am I correct to be intransigent at this stage.
Oh, they offered me a hire car. I asked what sort of car it would be and was told either a saloon or a hatchback. That narrowed the choice down a bit then!
Sorry for the long post, but I really need to get this sorted out.
Thanks,
Andy
As i drove it home from the dealers I noticed the steering wheel was off centre.
I took it into my local Honda dealers the next day and they repositioned it.
The next day, i noticed that it had moved and was again off centre.
I took it into the dealers again and left it while they did a 4 wheel alignment check. I collected the car, and although the wheel was straight at first, after a few miles it had moved again. I turned round and took it back to the dealers, who were as mystified as me as to how this could happen.
It was booked in yet again, and they were advised by Honda to loosen all the suspension and steering components and retighten them.
This they did. The steering wheel remained straight for the weekend. Unfortunately, the car had developed an alarming trait where it would now appear to steer from the rear.
I took it back again (5th time).
They readjusted the rear camber and tracking. I collected the car and although the rear end steer has been cured, the steering wheel once more is off centre.
I again turned round and went back to the garage to finally complain. (I had been very patient upuntil then.)
The service manager could not explain why the steering was off centre again, but did tell me that they could not get the rear camber within manufacturers tolerances.
Not happy, i spoke to my insurers, who told me that in the event of a crash, and it became apparent that I was driving a car with such a problem, my policy would be void. This was confirmed by my son who works for Churchill in Nottingham.
I then phoned Honda UK and explained the problems with the car and that I wished to reject the car on the grounds that they had had 5 opportunities to fix it, and could not even find the problem.
The girl I spoke agreed with me , spoke to her manager and agreed to exchange the car for a new one. Her problem, she explained to me, was that she would need to talk to the supplying dealer, get a valuation aand then order a new car. She was also going to arrange a hire car for me in the meantime and call me back today.
After 3 calls to her, I managed to get hold of her at 3
p.m.
Her story now was that sometime next week, they would like a Honda engineer to look at my car before making a decision.
Not happy at that, I spoke to her manager, who confirmed that they wanted a Honda engineer to inspect the car, and if they could effect a repair,no exchange would take place.
I would not agree to that, told her that i had an agreement with the girl I initially spoke to and they should stick to that, not introduce more hurdles and faff for me to go through.
My stance is that the dealers act as Hondas agents, have liased with their tech support and have had 5 opportunities to fix the car and failed.
Having been offered a new car, that is what I want now.
I have a car on my drive that technically I should not drive.
Am I correct to be intransigent at this stage.
Oh, they offered me a hire car. I asked what sort of car it would be and was told either a saloon or a hatchback. That narrowed the choice down a bit then!
Sorry for the long post, but I really need to get this sorted out.
Thanks,
Andy
andygo,
i think honda customer service is excellent or so i hear from every honda owner i speak to. I think in your case it would be difficult to "hold" honda UK to the statements made by a call centre rep.
At the very least, if I were you I would do the following:
- demand your car is collected by your dealer ASAP. and a courtesy car is left in its place. they should not aruge on that point as you can simply wave the "void" insurance story at them.
- dealer now has your car, honda UK's tech rep can inspect it without you having the hassle of taking the car back in.
- write a letter to dealer and honda uk immediately laying out what you want should the honda UK rep not find fault or be able to fix the car. the warranty alone is not your only defence, also quote the "sale of goods act" at this time the vehicle is not "fit for its intended purpose" so by law you can reject it
also forward the letter to autoexpress's "watchdog" desk as they like publishing and stepping in on these cases
Once this is all in place, in writing, let them get on with it. Be as patient as you can. I have read a lot of these situations like yours and i think if you have let the dealer, then honda try to fix the car and they still get nowhere i think you will get your replacement without too much fuss from honda.
All manufacturers would ask to let their own engineers see a car before any offer for replacement is granted.
Good Luck.
>> Edited by northernmonkey on Friday 24th September 16:03
i think honda customer service is excellent or so i hear from every honda owner i speak to. I think in your case it would be difficult to "hold" honda UK to the statements made by a call centre rep.
At the very least, if I were you I would do the following:
- demand your car is collected by your dealer ASAP. and a courtesy car is left in its place. they should not aruge on that point as you can simply wave the "void" insurance story at them.
- dealer now has your car, honda UK's tech rep can inspect it without you having the hassle of taking the car back in.
- write a letter to dealer and honda uk immediately laying out what you want should the honda UK rep not find fault or be able to fix the car. the warranty alone is not your only defence, also quote the "sale of goods act" at this time the vehicle is not "fit for its intended purpose" so by law you can reject it
also forward the letter to autoexpress's "watchdog" desk as they like publishing and stepping in on these cases
Once this is all in place, in writing, let them get on with it. Be as patient as you can. I have read a lot of these situations like yours and i think if you have let the dealer, then honda try to fix the car and they still get nowhere i think you will get your replacement without too much fuss from honda.
All manufacturers would ask to let their own engineers see a car before any offer for replacement is granted.
Good Luck.
>> Edited by northernmonkey on Friday 24th September 16:03
I've just had the head of Cust.Rels. from Honda on the blower.
Seems like astraight talking bloke. He said that it was most unusual to have a case of my kind and that it is very unusual for a Honda engineer to leave the confines of the factory to look at a car.
He said if they can't get an engineer to look at the car in a short timeframe, then they would replace the car immediately regardless.
Anyway, the upshot is that he's trying to sort out a hire car today,if not Monday. (not very good, seeing as I am off to Donington tomorrow)and an engineer asap.
If the engineer agrees its out of spec I get a new car.
If its a quick fix, then they will give me something to recognise they have messed me around. (probabably a certificate!)
Cars. What a bloody nightmare!
Seems like astraight talking bloke. He said that it was most unusual to have a case of my kind and that it is very unusual for a Honda engineer to leave the confines of the factory to look at a car.
He said if they can't get an engineer to look at the car in a short timeframe, then they would replace the car immediately regardless.
Anyway, the upshot is that he's trying to sort out a hire car today,if not Monday. (not very good, seeing as I am off to Donington tomorrow)and an engineer asap.
If the engineer agrees its out of spec I get a new car.
If its a quick fix, then they will give me something to recognise they have messed me around. (probabably a certificate!)
Cars. What a bloody nightmare!
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