tyre sidewall - hard v soft!

[GreenArrow]

Currently not a happy bunny having put a set of Goodyear Efficient Grip performance tyres on my Mazda 6 to replace a combination of Bridgestones on front and Dunlop Fast Response in the back. What was previously an amazingly pointy and neutral handling front driver hatch has been transformed into something that wants to understeer at the earliest opportunity in tight turns. Due to the soft tyre walls, it just seems to roll on its front tyres in tight turns, rather than dig in and resist understeer as it did before. Sure, the tyres give great security and better traction in the wet, but I'd trade a bit of that for the chuckable feeling I had before. Anyway, it occurred to me that you really cant find any rating for "tyre stiffness" on any of the various internet sources and you just have to go on general tyre test results and buyer feedback on the likes of Tyre Reviews.co.uk, on which the Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance tyres get rave reviews! As you cant "try before you buy" its pretty galling if you make the wrong choice. So two points here; 1) is it me, or are more and more tyres "going soft", to get those A ratings on economy and wet weather performance and 2) Do you prefer a harder or softer tyre wall on your car?
Finally, anyone out there with a Mazda 6 recommend a good tyre that suits the Mazda's chassis? Personally I think it was set up for a harder sidewall.

Edited by GreenArrow on Monday 9th March 17:55

[Claudia Skies]

GreenArrow said:

put a set of Goodyear Efficient Grip performance tyres on my Mazda 6

Well, their website doesn't use that word "performance", and I'm not surprised. They are eco-weenie tyres.

"The fuel-saving tyre that keeps performing for longer.

• Fuel-saving and environmentally friendly
• Long lasting
• Better braking on wet roads [Better than what?? CS]
• Quiet, comfortable ride. "

[Claudia Skies]

Have you tried playing with the tyre pressures? Can sometimes improve things a bit.

[Sheepshanks]

To be fair, Bridgestone are noted for stiff sidewalls - my Merc came with them and it was like driving on iron rings, and they're only 16".

The rears wore pretty quickly so changed for Michelin Primacy HPs and didn't make much difference. The fronts looked like they would last for ever and at 40K and about half worn I dumped them and put HP's on and the car was transformed - but in the opposite way that you're looking for!

Now you've got the tyres you have, could only suggest whacking the pressures up and see how you go. When changing, might be worth looking at extra-load (XL) tyres if they're not already required anyway.

[blearyeyedboy]

I made the mistake of buying Goodyear EfficientGrips before. Never again. Fuel savings were there but marginal and the lack of grip was a bit scary. I was happy to get rid.

[All that jazz]

GreenArrow said:

Currently not a happy bunny having put a set of Goodyear Efficient Grip performance tyres on my Mazda 6 to replace a combination of Bridgestones on front and Dunlop Fast Response in the back. What was previously an amazingly pointy and neutral handling front driver hatch has been transformed into something that wants to understeer at the earliest opportunity in tight turns. Due to the soft tyre walls, it just seems to roll on its front tyres in tight turns, rather than dig in and resist understeer as it did before. Sure, the tyres give great security and better traction in the wet, but I'd trade a bit of that for the chuckable feeling I had before. Anyway, it occurred to me that you really cant find any rating for "tyre stiffness" on any of the various internet sources and you just have to go on general tyre test results and buyer feedback on the likes of Tyre Reviews.co.uk, on which the Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance tyres get rave reviews! As you cant "try before you buy" its pretty galling if you make the wrong choice. So two points here; 1) is it me, or are more and more tyres "going soft", to get those A ratings on economy and wet weather performance and 2) Do you prefer a harder or softer tyre wall on your car?
Finally, anyone out there with a Mazda 6 recommend a good tyre that suits the Mazda's chassis? Personally I think it was set up for a harder sidewall.

Edited by GreenArrow on Monday 9th March 17:55

You want to get tyres with an XL load rating if you want stiff side walls. Had this problem with some Uniroyal RainSports which are absolutely garbage for handling and turn in. Replaced them with same but the XL load rating and it's a total transformation.

[HertsBiker]

I'd sooner have softer side walls for more progressive feel. Fast handling tyres are ultimately not as nice to drive if you don't have a stable mid point on the rack. I've had low profiles on my mondeo and they were vile.

[kambites]

HertsBiker said:

I'd sooner have softer side walls for more progressive feel. Fast handling tyres are ultimately not as nice to drive if you don't have a stable mid point on the rack. I've had low profiles on my mondeo and they were vile.

It depends enormously on the car.

Of our cars, the Elise feels horrible on soft sidewalls whereas the Octavia is greatly improved by them. I think it largely comes down to the fact that the Octavia has crap suspension and ludicrously heavy wheels so it needs the extra compliance soft sidewalls give, whereas the Elise's suspension is much more capable of dealing with bumps without the tyre's help.

[HertsBiker]

You may have a point, my smart was great on hard wall tyres and sloppy on softer... The ford is so much improved on 16s rather than the stupid 18s it came with,

[karma mechanic]

Claudia Skies said:

Well, their website doesn't use that word "performance", and I'm not surprised. They are eco-weenie tyres.

"The fuel-saving tyre that keeps performing for longer.

• Fuel-saving and environmentally friendly
• Long lasting
• Better braking on wet roads [Better than what?? CS]
• Quiet, comfortable ride. "

That's the original EfficientGrip, which is pretty poor.

The OP put on the EfficientGrip Performance, which is a different tyre and does appear to be a lot better. I recently got rid of a set of ContiSportContact 5's on mine at 12,000 miles total after front/back rotation, and got some of the EG Performance. Better ride than the CSC5's, especially the jigglyness on rougher surfaces, and quieter. Absolute grip is a bit less in the dry, about the same in the wet. Steering feels slightly 'softer' but on the flip side there is a distinct lack of tramlining and the softer sidewall does seem to have an advantage on rougher tarmac.

• Edited to add** mine are 225/45-18 95W XL. So not as soft as they could be in other sizes.

Edited by karma mechanic on Tuesday 10th March 10:19

[Martin_Hx]

Definitely depends on the car, my Civic needs very stiff sidewalls or the handling goes to pot. The ride is terrible over crap roads anyway so it makes little difference

Also i think it depends how you drive!

[TheJimi]

Intriguing how experiences can differ so vastly.

I ran Efficient Grip's on a Mk1 Focus 1.6 for a while. I genuinely couldn't fault them, and they were actually pretty good in winter conditions too.

Martin_Hx said:

Also i think it depends how you drive!

Absolutely right; it depends a LOT on the driver.

My response to the OP would be to accept the new tyres have different characteristics to the old one's and adjust your driving style to suit - ie drive around the "problem"

Edited by TheJimi on Tuesday 10th March 11:08

[jon-]

EU labels include fuel rating.

One of the main ways to lower fuel consumption is thinner sidewalls for less weight and heat build up.

The result is a jelly tyre

On the plus side... Nope, there is no plus side They split sidewalls easier too.

A few extra PSI can help, and they'll feel better after 1000 miles.

[TheJimi]

and yes, playing about with tyre pressures will almost certainly help. Many folk completely underestimate the effect tyre pressures can have.

[mackie1]

Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2s have *very* thin sidewalls compared to the ContiSportContact 5Ps I have on my current car.

[Robatr0n]

I think it's most likely car dependant.

I put some Goodyear Effientgrip Performance tyres on my E34 540i and the result was a much quieter ride, slightly better economy on a long drive and improved handling compared to the Pirelli tyres that were on there previously. It wasn't awful to begin with but it's hardly the best handling car in the world to start with so for me the tyres worked wonders.

That said, I wouldn't put them on a hot hatch.

[BritishRacinGrin]

Goodyear EfficientGrip Performance = Stodgy

[jon-]

mackie1 said:

Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2s have *very* thin sidewalls compared to the ContiSportContact 5Ps I have on my current car.

And there is where the rabbit hole gets even deeper.

Some sizes of the A2 have very stiff sidewalls.

Some used to have stiff sidewalls, but as they've been updated they've gotten softer to improve the label scores.

Some have always been a bit floppy!

[SuperchargedVR6]

jon- said:

mackie1 said:

Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2s have *very* thin sidewalls compared to the ContiSportContact 5Ps I have on my current car.

And there is where the rabbit hole gets even deeper.

Some sizes of the A2 have very stiff sidewalls.

Some used to have stiff sidewalls, but as they've been updated they've gotten softer to improve the label scores.

Some have always been a bit floppy!

That might explain why I've been disappointed by A2s on two different cars. A MK4 R32 and currently an GTI Edition 30. Both cars suffered badly in the turn-in department and crashiness over busted up roads increased markedly, compared to the Michelin Pilot Sport 2s that were fitted previously.

Furthermore, I find the wet grip of the A2s only marginally better than the Pilot Sports, but the Pilot is the far better tyre in the dry. Considering all the hype the A2s received, I'm not buying them again, but as said already, it could be car dependant.

225/40/18 for what it's worth.

Do car makers tune the dampers / spring rates etc for the original fit tyre or something, because to my mind, changing brands of tyres shouldn't make the huge difference that it often does?

[Sheepshanks]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

Do car makers tune the dampers / spring rates etc for the original fit tyre or something, because to my mind, changing brands of tyres shouldn't make the huge difference that it often does?

Mercedes (and some owners) make a big thing about using MO tyres, but it becomes a nonsense as soon as the original make and model of tyre is updated. Most prestige brands do it to some degree. Obviously there's the "N" system with Porsche, but at least they have different versions of it.