Track day car choice? 130i, 350z or E46M3?

[CombineHarvester]

Hi all,

I'm about to start looking for a car to use on track days, I was thinking about the cars above. Whatever I buy it will get stripped and caged, plus upgrading anything else that might be a weak point on the track.

My question is, does anyone have experience of using any of these cars as a track day car, what are the pros and cons of each?

I love the idea of an M3 but I am put off by the rear sub frame failures and potentially high price of a repair should an engine expire. Plus I have to budget +£1700 for the rear sub frame mod.

A 1 series is also high on the list, I guess I would have to spend a bit more on mods and upgrades, but I think the end result may be the best all rounder?

350z looks like an absolute bargain but I am not a huge fan of how they look, but I can get past that, being as they are half the cost of an M3! They seem to be a good performer.

Any thoughts and advice appreciated.

Thanks,

Scott

[kambites]

All three are very heavy cars for track use. That doesn't mean they can't be fun but it does mean they're all going to be relatively expensive in terms of consumables.

The M3 is certainly the best track car of the three "out of the box" because its suspension is so much higher quality than the other two but once you start replacing bits I doubt there's much to choose between them.

[james_gt3rs]

M3s are very common on track, must be a reason behind it.

[Dakkon]

Don't go for the 350Z unless you plan on stripping it completely, they are heavy, understeer, standard brakes cannot cope on track

[anonymous-user]

For the 130 you could start with 135 calipers and RS29's/braided hoses. Something like KW3's would be good and not crazy amounts of money. The N52 () is largely reliable enough, it's not amazingly fast but it is a good chassis. The E46 is a great option but will be on a different budget. No experience of 350's but they are quite a heavy car to start with.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 14th March 15:21

[JohnoVR6]

kambites said:

All three are very heavy cars for track use. That doesn't mean they can't be fun but it does mean they're all going to be relatively expensive in terms of consumables.

The M3 is certainly the best track car of the three "out of the box" because its suspension is so much higher quality than the other two but once you start replacing bits I doubt there's much to choose between them.

Don't E46 M3's have a tendency to snap their rear springs - both OE and aftermarket?

Out the three, I'd plump for the 350Z. Great noise with an aftermarket exhaust, good fun to drive even when standard and whilst not the quickest thing in a straight line, there's plenty left over in the pot to go FI with it given the price differences.

I even quite like the looks of an earlier standard bodied one before they started sprouting wings and the like.

Edit to add...I haven't driven one on track mind, just on a quick-ish A-road...so the above could be total bks.

[kambites]

JohnoVR6 said:

Don't E46 M3's have a tendency to snap their rear springs - both OE and aftermarket?

I've no idea, I meant quality in terms of how it drives when in good condition rather than how long it lasts.

[J4CKO]

M3s tend to disintegrate round the rear floor, so make sure you get one that has been done or checked, if it isnt then hard track stuff could set it off, not the end of the world but its still £1500 or so to get sorted.

The 350z is no heavier than the M3 despite what is said about its weight, but it is very tough, near enough as quick and quite a bit cheaper, dont remember mine understeering, remember lots of oversteer though. Any heavy road car will probably need attention tot he brakes, the Brembos on the GT pack cars seem pretty capable, decent pads, fresh fluid and see how it goes, would want to strip some weight out of it, or any road car for track use, ditch the heavy GT seats, ditch the stereo, I bet it would be fairly simple to drop 100 kilos or more.

130i, dont know a lot about those but would imagine they could make a decent track car.

[kambites]

All three cars are pretty similar in terms of weight and not far off in terms of wheelbase and width. I guess it'd be easier to strip weight from the four-seaters simply because there's an easy place to start.

[CABC]

james_gt3rs said:

M3s are very common on track, must be a reason behind it.

not sure they're that common, and when they do turn up i wonder how many are first timers or maybe driven by ego (ie avoid the girly lightweights).
Common cars are mx5s, Clios, Hondas and 3 series (not M3s but track prepped other variants, often with engine transplants.)

OP, why that s/list?

[havoc]

kambites said:

All three are very heavy cars for track use. That doesn't mean they can't be fun but it does mean they're all going to be relatively expensive in terms of consumables.

The M3 is certainly the best track car of the three "out of the box" because its suspension is so much higher quality than the other two but once you start replacing bits I doubt there's much to choose between them.

Those were my first thoughts. Powertrain on the M3 is the best as well - great engine, perfectly at-home on track.


OP - is there any reason you're looking at comparatively-heavy coupes? They will chew through tyres and brakes more than a lighter car, and put more stress on dampers, bushes, bearings...


If not, can I make a few suggestions that would probably be cheaper to modify and cheaper to run on-track (assuming you want RWD and not a track-focused hot-hatch, which are actually rather fun themselves):-
- S2000. The (unfairly-) maligned handling can be 'tamed' relatively cheaply - structural bracing, changing the geometry, and fitting e.g. Nitrons. Peakiness of the engine doesn't matter on-track and the linear delivery is probably a boon.
- Boxster-S. Ubiquitous but for a reason. Depending on budget you may even get a badly-specced Cayman-S.
- RX8. Another really good chassis straight out of the box, and another beautifully-linear, revvy engine.

...and then of course there's the Elise/Exige/VX220T to consider.

[git-r]

re the e46 m3 suspension they have trailing arms at the back, the 350 might be better in this respect? Lol the Nissan 200 sx had more modern design.

Brakes are a bit crap too although a lot of people make do with them.

Still a great car mind but would take more £££ to go consistently fast on track, they're great as a road car and occasional track car. Loved mine but always felt it too soft on track.


If you could get a 135 with the right engine that'd be what I'd go for, epic tuning potential

[SarGara]

Dakkon said:

Don't go for the 350Z unless you plan on stripping it completely, they are heavy, understeer, standard brakes cannot cope on track

All of which could be addressed with the price difference compared to the M3? The weight is no worse than the others being compared against really either by the way.
350z - 3,188–3,602 lb (1,446–1,634 kg) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_350Z
E46 M3 - Coupe: 3,415 lb (1,549 kg) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M3#E46_M3

[CombineHarvester]

CABC said:

OP, why that s/list?

Well the first thing is I'd like rear wheel drive. I'm a big BMW fan and have driven a 3 series as a main road car for the last 7 years. I did a track day at Anglesey on the weekend in my Fiat 500 Abarth 595 and absolutely loved it, (I used to do loads of track days but have not done one for about 10 years) but it just left me wanting a little bit more. The car was fun to drive on track but the brakes got hot pretty quickly. Also its quite a lot of under steer, I think I'm pretty much on its limits. I was hoping I could get it to over steer on lift off a bit but the back end is glued

Part of me thinks I should throw some bigger breaks on the 500 and try again. The car is 500Kg lighter than all of the ones I have mentioned above after all. I just don't know, hence posting on here! undecided.

(I'll never be able to strip the 500 either, my wife likes driving it)

What if I turn the question round, what would you go for?

[underphil]

yonex said:

For the 130 you could start with 135 calipers and RS29's/braided hoses. Something like KW3's would be good and not crazy amounts of money. The N54 is largely reliable enough, it's not amazingly fast but it is a good chassis. The E46 is a great option but will be on a different budget. No experience of 350's but they are quite a heavy car to start with.

the 130i has the N52

[git-r]

Just to add, according to the BMW garage that fixed the boot floor in my e46 all e46's suffer this problem, there's no easy way to check it without removing the subframe.

[git-r]

CombineHarvester said:

Well the first thing is I'd like rear wheel drive. I'm a big BMW fan and have driven a 3 series as a main road car for the last 7 years. I did a track day at Anglesey on the weekend in my Fiat 500 Abarth 595 and absolutely loved it, (I used to do loads of track days but have not done one for about 10 years) but it just left me wanting a little bit more. The car was fun to drive on track but the brakes got hot pretty quickly. Also its quite a lot of under steer, I think I'm pretty much on its limits. I was hoping I could get it to over steer on lift off a bit but the back end is glued

Part of me thinks I should throw some bigger breaks on the 500 and try again. The car is 500Kg lighter than all of the ones I have mentioned above after all. I just don't know, hence posting on here! undecided.

(I'll never be able to strip the 500 either, my wife likes driving it)

What if I turn the question round, what would you go for?

A Megane 250 cup is great on track and oversteers beautifully

I got one as a second track car recently and really enjoying it, no need to modify, it's fine out the box (and quicker than my old m3).

Here's how it handles:

https://youtu.be/p93IadRwy-U

[SWoll]

Have been looking into something similar with a friend OP and came to the following conclusions

M3 - Too expensive to find a decent starting point car. Fragile engines and suspension. M tax on consumables is off putting.

350Z - Biggest issue is weight, but stripping interior, sound proofing and electrical gubbins can dramatically help with this if car is for track only. Decent cars can be found in the 5-6K range. Add £2-3K for half cage, suspension, brakes (discs + track pads), decent bucket seats + harnesses and track tyres and you're good to go.

Interesting link here from someone who's done something similar with a 350Z and gives you a decent idea of how much work is involved in stripping one properly.

[kambites]

CombineHarvester said:

What if I turn the question round, what would you go for?

Well the obvious answer, as to everything on PH it seems, is an MX5. The basic chassis is very good, especially once you've stiffened it up with a cage, and if you go down the forced induction route you can get a good 250bhp/tonne out of one reasonably cheaply.

If you'd be happy with FWD, there's an endless list of small, light hot hatches which will do the job very well.

[TheJimi]

havoc said:

OP - is there any reason you're looking at comparatively-heavy coupes? They will chew through tyres and brakes more than a lighter car, and put more stress on dampers, bushes, bearings...

Aye, this.

Curious to know the answer myself