Other half of semi have routed run off water to ground?
Discussion
Hi all, was just hoping to get some advice on water run off from the roof of a semi-detached and what the rights and responsibilities of the property owner are.
We live in one half of a 1930s semi-detached and we (but not the neighbours) have a basement conversion. In the past year, the owners of the other half of the semi-detached property have, for reasons known only to themselves, installed a new downpipe from their roof's guttering to ground level which, as far as I can tell, just empties onto the ground.
We've had issues with damp in our basement before and so are keen to keep as much water away from the ground around our house as possible.
We also have a planning dispute with our neighbours over their deck which has turned very acrimonious so talking to them about a solution is not an option. The neighbours are also in the process of selling their house, so I want to get this issue resolved with them, rather than start a new dispute with the new owners right off the bat.
Given the state of our current neighbourly relations, I'm confident that it will come down to what the legal rights and responsibilities of each property owner is and probably us having to push for any action in any case.
Here's a diagram of our semis (on the left) and the next doors, which were carbon copies when they were built.
The purple arrowed downpipes are the original downpipes which feed into a purpose built drain at ground level. The green arrowed downpipe (barely) visible is a new addition on our side that empties into the original purpose built drain.
The red arrowed downpipe is the new downpipe that empties into the ground.
The yellow arrowed areas show where on the original layout of the properties there are no drainpipes in the position of the red arrowed downpipe.
We live in one half of a 1930s semi-detached and we (but not the neighbours) have a basement conversion. In the past year, the owners of the other half of the semi-detached property have, for reasons known only to themselves, installed a new downpipe from their roof's guttering to ground level which, as far as I can tell, just empties onto the ground.
We've had issues with damp in our basement before and so are keen to keep as much water away from the ground around our house as possible.
We also have a planning dispute with our neighbours over their deck which has turned very acrimonious so talking to them about a solution is not an option. The neighbours are also in the process of selling their house, so I want to get this issue resolved with them, rather than start a new dispute with the new owners right off the bat.
Given the state of our current neighbourly relations, I'm confident that it will come down to what the legal rights and responsibilities of each property owner is and probably us having to push for any action in any case.
Here's a diagram of our semis (on the left) and the next doors, which were carbon copies when they were built.
The purple arrowed downpipes are the original downpipes which feed into a purpose built drain at ground level. The green arrowed downpipe (barely) visible is a new addition on our side that empties into the original purpose built drain.
The red arrowed downpipe is the new downpipe that empties into the ground.
The yellow arrowed areas show where on the original layout of the properties there are no drainpipes in the position of the red arrowed downpipe.
Boosted LS1 said:
I suspect they hope to pay less water rates.
I'm only partially aware of the water rate reductions sometimes available for having soakaways etc on your own land, but given that the original configuration of the purple arrowed downpipe on our properties feeds into a soakaway anyway, there shouldn't be any advantage to it.I suspect the reason they installed the new downpipe was to feed run off from their porch roof into it as this had guttering installed at the same time as the new downpipe was put in, but that doesn't really explain why they decided to run the downpipe from the roof level, rather than just the porch roof level. It's possible that the guttering on their side was old and knackered and they just did the whole lot in one go.
However, that doesn't really help me much either way, what I need to know is, are they allowed to route their run off water to the ground right next to the house?
So purple goes to a soakaway, but red just empties onto the surface of the ground?
Well, it's going to have the same end effect - they'll both reach the groundwater. It's just that the soakaway won't lead to puddles sat around...
Is there a perforated pipe or french drain buried, carrying the water to the soakaway, perhaps?
No surprise a new downpipe's added - looks like a right ol' round-the-houses (quite literally) for water off the outside half of the front of the roof/dormer, all the way round to the back. Bet that's fun in autumn.
Well, it's going to have the same end effect - they'll both reach the groundwater. It's just that the soakaway won't lead to puddles sat around...
Is there a perforated pipe or french drain buried, carrying the water to the soakaway, perhaps?
No surprise a new downpipe's added - looks like a right ol' round-the-houses (quite literally) for water off the outside half of the front of the roof/dormer, all the way round to the back. Bet that's fun in autumn.
Not ideal but happens.
Is the ground actually suitable for a soakaway?
Has it been tested?
Have they dug a big hole and filled it with "rubble"?
If it's clay for instance then the water will not soakaway at all. The hole will fill up and that's it.
Is that a large expanse of block paving or other impervious surfacing to the front? I'd be more worried about that if it is and it falls back to the house.
Is the ground actually suitable for a soakaway?
Has it been tested?
Have they dug a big hole and filled it with "rubble"?
If it's clay for instance then the water will not soakaway at all. The hole will fill up and that's it.
Is that a large expanse of block paving or other impervious surfacing to the front? I'd be more worried about that if it is and it falls back to the house.
TooMany2cvs said:
So purple goes to a soakaway, but red just empties onto the surface of the ground?
Yes.TooMany2cvs said:
Well, it's going to have the same end effect - they'll both reach the groundwater. It's just that the soakaway won't lead to puddles sat around...
Is that strictly true? I thought the whole point of the soakaway (and drains in general) was to keep substantial amounts of water away from the fabric of the building. I believe there are rules about how close a soakaway can be to a building, for this very reason?My concern here is that the new downpipe will concentrate water against the building which will inevitably increase the level of water (hydrostatic pressure is the technical term, I believe?) immediately surrounding my 25 year old basement and risk increased damp.
TooMany2cvs said:
Is there a perforated pipe or french drain buried, carrying the water to the soakaway, perhaps?
No surprise a new downpipe's added - looks like a right ol' round-the-houses (quite literally) for water off the outside half of the front of the roof/dormer, all the way round to the back. Bet that's fun in autumn.
No French drain there at all, I just had a quick look and it's just an elbow at the bottom of the downpipe entering into a small cut out area about 12" square, bordered by two bits of wood in a U shape, butted up to the wall. The bottom of that cut out is soil, as far as I can see.No surprise a new downpipe's added - looks like a right ol' round-the-houses (quite literally) for water off the outside half of the front of the roof/dormer, all the way round to the back. Bet that's fun in autumn.
p1stonhead said:
Left Semi had a basement put in?
Any pics OP? Not typical for someone to spend basement money on a 1930's semi unless the location is really incredible.
Would like to see what you have done
We didn't do the basement conversion, it was completed in the 1980s. It's certainly unusual around here, as far as I know we're the only house anywhere nearby that has one. Any pics OP? Not typical for someone to spend basement money on a 1930's semi unless the location is really incredible.
Would like to see what you have done
I suspect the reason a previous owner decided to do it was probably because of the topography of our plot - we're on the side of a hill, so the ground slopes drastically front to back. When the house was originally built there was already at least a half height storage area underneath our property. They converted it to full height accommodation back in the 80s.
jack_smartie said:
You might find that this is picked up on a home buyers survey when any potential buyers start making enquires.
Unless the hard standing has some sort of formal drainage it isn't a very good detail and a surveyor should pick it up and recommend that it's addressed.
Thanks, I have little faith in surveyors though and would like it resolved before our new neighbours move in, so I'm trying to find out what the legal responsibilities are.Unless the hard standing has some sort of formal drainage it isn't a very good detail and a surveyor should pick it up and recommend that it's addressed.
As far as I can tell, they're covered under Building Regs Section H3 - Rainwater Drainage:
http://cms.thebuildingregulations.org.uk/document-...
Building Regs said:
Requirement Rainwater drainage H3.
(1) Adequate provision shall be made for rainwater to be carried from the roof of the building.
(2) Paved areas around the building shall be so constructed as to be adequately drained.
(3) Rainwater from a system provided pursuant to sub- paragraphs (1) or (2) shall discharge to one of the following, listed in order of priority:
(a) an adequate soakaway or some other adequate infiltration system; or, where that is not reasonably practicable,
(b) a watercourse; or, where that is not reasonably practicable,
(c) a sewer.
That suggests to me that simply routing the rainwater to ground is not allowed?(1) Adequate provision shall be made for rainwater to be carried from the roof of the building.
(2) Paved areas around the building shall be so constructed as to be adequately drained.
(3) Rainwater from a system provided pursuant to sub- paragraphs (1) or (2) shall discharge to one of the following, listed in order of priority:
(a) an adequate soakaway or some other adequate infiltration system; or, where that is not reasonably practicable,
(b) a watercourse; or, where that is not reasonably practicable,
(c) a sewer.
Skyedriver said:
Not ideal but happens.
Is the ground actually suitable for a soakaway?
Not qualified to say, but I know we have a soakaway under our drive.Is the ground actually suitable for a soakaway?
Skyedriver said:
Has it been tested?
Not to my knowledge.Skyedriver said:
Have they dug a big hole and filled it with "rubble"?
I don't know; the soakaway was installed years before we purchased the property.Skyedriver said:
If it's clay for instance then the water will not soakaway at all. The hole will fill up and that's it.
The soil in our area is partially clay.Skyedriver said:
Is that a large expanse of block paving or other impervious surfacing to the front? I'd be more worried about that if it is and it falls back to the house.
I believe it's a porrous resin surface, I watched it during a recent downpour and there was no pooling on it, unlike the tarmac pavement.It's been covered on here before, from memory the legal position is broadly that neither of you can alter the flow of water such that it changes the ground water situation for your neighbour adversely.
I think the thread on here was a neighbour complaining that a basement tanking was stopping water flowing through next door's ground as it used to, so it was making his house damp.
So, no your neighbour can't mess about with his drainage to try to flood your basement just because his land happens to tend towards draining in that direction.
Your issues are several, inter-related and legally complex, I would really suggest finding an expert and getting a professional involved to come up with a holistic approach to dealing with your d
heads.
I think the thread on here was a neighbour complaining that a basement tanking was stopping water flowing through next door's ground as it used to, so it was making his house damp.
So, no your neighbour can't mess about with his drainage to try to flood your basement just because his land happens to tend towards draining in that direction.
Your issues are several, inter-related and legally complex, I would really suggest finding an expert and getting a professional involved to come up with a holistic approach to dealing with your d
heads.If only it were as simply as appointing a professional! Over the past few weeks I've contacted 3 local planning consultants. One flat out refused (no long takes on objections as it could be a conflict of itnerest) and I'm still waiting to here back from the other two - and they haven't even heard any details yet!
Does it drain into the resin bound surface? If so it will be fine. The sub-base will act as a storage vessel and a large based soakaway, much better than a concentrated point of infiltration such as cellular storage or a rubble soakway.
When we design these sort of drainage system we normally connect the rainwater pipe directly into the sub-base, but a shoe out at surface level will have the same effect at a lesser cost.
On the other hand if it discharges onto a surface which can’t reach the resin surface it’s a crap implementation of a drainage system that won’t conform to Part H.
When we design these sort of drainage system we normally connect the rainwater pipe directly into the sub-base, but a shoe out at surface level will have the same effect at a lesser cost.
On the other hand if it discharges onto a surface which can’t reach the resin surface it’s a crap implementation of a drainage system that won’t conform to Part H.
Shove some expanding foam as far up that doenpipe as you can, the rainwater will backup the pipe and flow round to the rear to the original pipe.
Voila
It will serve them right for desroying a perfectly lovely 30’s house with god awful black windows and doors and white render.
Voila
It will serve them right for desroying a perfectly lovely 30’s house with god awful black windows and doors and white render.
Edited by dazwalsh on Tuesday 18th September 22:07
AlmostUseful said:
Does it drain into the resin bound surface? If so it will be fine. The sub-base will act as a storage vessel and a large based soakaway, much better than a concentrated point of infiltration such as cellular storage or a rubble soakway.
When we design these sort of drainage system we normally connect the rainwater pipe directly into the sub-base, but a shoe out at surface level will have the same effect at a lesser cost.
On the other hand if it discharges onto a surface which can’t reach the resin surface it’s a crap implementation of a drainage system that won’t conform to Part H.
The new downpipe ends in an elbow at ground level pointing away from the house (by about 6"), but the bottom of the "cut away" it drains into seems to be soil.When we design these sort of drainage system we normally connect the rainwater pipe directly into the sub-base, but a shoe out at surface level will have the same effect at a lesser cost.
On the other hand if it discharges onto a surface which can’t reach the resin surface it’s a crap implementation of a drainage system that won’t conform to Part H.
There doesn't seem to be any more thought to it than just let the water pour into the ground next to the house.
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