Ohlins Vs KW (Coilovers) - Road & Track Vs V3

[Jorge Pereira]

Hello friends,

I am seeking your valuable input, once again, regarding coilovers. Despite having read a lot, I have never owned aftermarket coilovers and, for my project, which I'm recording on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBdO0W8ZC8fg0jc7bGTs_Jg).

I was sold on the KW V3's but a couple shops where I'm getting my quotes have asked if I would consider Ohlins. Wonder if it's margin related or actual quality related.

This will be mostly a road car, but I'll do up to 10 track days per year. At the moment I have CSL dampers and the car corners extremely well, but it's quite jarring. I've also got power flex bushings at the rear.

My questions are:

- KW V3 vs Ohlins Road & Track BMS MI30. Have you had any of these?

- Differences in handling vs comfort?

- Adjustments. If I'm not mistaken, Ohlins have the DFV valve which allows you to control how stiff the car is, but you are adjusting compression and rebound at the same time. KW V3 has different adjustments for compression and rebound (which is where I may get the comfort adjustment for the majority of my road driving). Am I correct on this?

- Ease of adjustment. From what I was able to see, Ohlins are very easy and accessible to adjust on the side of the road. Are KW's also this way?

- Monotube vs twin tube?

- Breath of customisation on both of these. I assume the V3's will have a broader range. Correct?

- Ride height should be equally adjustable on both of these correct?

- Last but not least, these products were developed around the time that the e46 M3 came out. Since then, numerous advancements have been made. Will the coilovers that I'm buying today have these advancements (as if I was purchasing the same model for an F82 M4) or will I be supplied with an older version?

Thank you very much in advance.

[gareth h]

I can only comment on the V3s, I use a local garage who do a lot of work on race and track cars, as well as high end Porsche / Ferrari, the guy who runs it races himself.
He recommends KW V3 (as opposed to V1 or V2) because of the 3 way adjustment which gives much more flexibility in set up, he fitted these to my E46 M3 along with 5mm spacers on the front and a geo, on stock 18” rims (I had CSLs as well but found them a bit harsh). It drove really well, controlled but maintaining a decent ride quality.
I’m sure Ohlins would offer similar performance but go for the 3 way dampers to allow you to dial in the set up that suits you.
I now have a 410 Exige which has 3 way Nitrons as OEM fit, and a couple of clicks really does make an appreciable difference to the way the car drives.

[Jorge Pereira]

gareth h said:

I can only comment on the V3s, I use a local garage who do a lot of work on race and track cars, as well as high end Porsche / Ferrari, the guy who runs it races himself.
He recommends KW V3 (as opposed to V1 or V2) because of the 3 way adjustment which gives much more flexibility in set up, he fitted these to my E46 M3 along with 5mm spacers on the front and a geo, on stock 18” rims (I had CSLs as well but found them a bit harsh). It drove really well, controlled but maintaining a decent ride quality.
I’m sure Ohlins would offer similar performance but go for the 3 way dampers to allow you to dial in the set up that suits you.
I now have a 410 Exige which has 3 way Nitrons as OEM fit, and a couple of clicks really does make an appreciable difference to the way the car drives.

Thank you very much for your input. They also make Nitrons for my car but, I don't know much about them and they cost a pretty penny.

Just found out that the Ohlins adjust rebound and compression on the same dial. Therefor they are less adjustable. Going to have a meeting with a parts house tomorrow.

[mmm-five]

Is there a KW DDC or Bilstein RideTronic kit available for your model - would mean you can adjust it remotely from an app or control in the car!

[Biggriff]

Can only say Ohlins are in a different league generally. Had both and I always go Ohlin.

[Steve Rance]

It really depends on what you are looking for from the car and your own ability to translate the potential performance on the track. The difference between a mono shock body and remote body as the thickness of the damping rod - as the remote reservoir system allows for a thicker rod. What is important is the spring rate compared to the damping adjustment range. If the spring rate is high, you run the risk of the spring most all of the work when you run the damper at the softer end of its adjustment- so the damper and spring need to be carefully matched. Secondly, the valving control is what will largely define the damping quality. From the KW range, the best value damper is the Clubsport as it shares its valving hardware with the much more expensive ‘Race’ range. I have the KW Clubsport range fitted to my 964 and the damping control is very good on the road and equally as good on the track - for a damper in that price bracket. Separate Bump and rebound control are useful - providing you know what you are doing when you adjust them. Speaking as a driver who helped has set up many different spring/damper combinations for teams and tuners, it’s very easy to go the wrong way on set up if you are not an experienced driver. I have driven cars with truly horrific ‘home made’ set ups. The Nitron damper is superior dynamically to the KW but it is more expensive and the marginal improvement will probably be more apparent to a more experienced driver.

My advice - for what it is worth - is to fit a set of KW Clubsport dampers but with a matched spring set with a road bias. That will give you a very decent outcome for the money. Make sure that it is supplied by a tuner with a lot of experience with tuning your model and ask them for some standard base line set ups for different conditions.

Good luck

[Jorge Pereira]

mmm-five said:

Is there a KW DDC or Bilstein RideTronic kit available for your model - would mean you can adjust it remotely from an app or control in the car!

I wish... I wanted a system like that, but unfortunately they don't make it. Neither does Bilstein. I've sent emails to all of them. I don't mind changing it manually, since it's more adjustable than a two step adjustment program

[Jorge Pereira]

Biggriff said:

Can only say Ohlins are in a different league generally. Had both and I always go Ohlin.

I read this a lot!! They also mention that built quality is superior on the Ohlins but, for example, Ohlins have a teflon coating for corrosion, since they are made from aluminium and KW are stainless steel.

Is it built quality you mention or ride quality and handling that is superior in your opinion?

[Jorge Pereira]

Steve Rance said:

It really depends on what you are looking for from the car and your own ability to translate the potential performance on the track. The difference between a mono shock body and remote body as the thickness of the damping rod - as the remote reservoir system allows for a thicker rod. What is important is the spring rate compared to the damping adjustment range. If the spring rate is high, you run the risk of the spring most all of the work when you run the damper at the softer end of its adjustment- so the damper and spring need to be carefully matched. Secondly, the valving control is what will largely define the damping quality. From the KW range, the best value damper is the Clubsport as it shares its valving hardware with the much more expensive ‘Race’ range. I have the KW Clubsport range fitted to my 964 and the damping control is very good on the road and equally as good on the track - for a damper in that price bracket. Separate Bump and rebound control are useful - providing you know what you are doing when you adjust them. Speaking as a driver who helped has set up many different spring/damper combinations for teams and tuners, it’s very easy to go the wrong way on set up if you are not an experienced driver. I have driven cars with truly horrific ‘home made’ set ups. The Nitron damper is superior dynamically to the KW but it is more expensive and the marginal improvement will probably be more apparent to a more experienced driver.

My advice - for what it is worth - is to fit a set of KW Clubsport dampers but with a matched spring set with a road bias. That will give you a very decent outcome for the money. Make sure that it is supplied by a tuner with a lot of experience with tuning your model and ask them for some standard base line set ups for different conditions.

Good luck

Thank you very much for the thorough reply.

I had thought about the Clubsport, but decided against it because of price and the probable harsh ride, since it will mostly be a road car. I'm experienced in a way, with less track experience at this age, although I used to race go karts when I was younger.

The shop which I'll be buying from said that KW would produce these on demand, with spring rates according to my car. Then they would corner balance it with scales. From there I will play with the settings to see what I like most, returning to "factory" if I get something I don't like.

Having read this, you'd still recommend the clubsports for what is mainly a street car? My car, with the CSL shocks, corners damn well. The front end is precise and is eager to tuck in the nose, even during cornering. I'm running sport cup 2 with 235 at the front which might also help. The drawback is the jarring suspension for pottling around. On the motorway, while I testing my top speed, because of a bump, the DSC light came on at 240 kph, and I think it was because the car gets a bit unsettled due to the harsh (15+ year old technology) suspension.

One thing the V3's don't have, from KW, are camber plates, which would be a nice addition.

[mmm-five]

Jorge Pereira said:

I wish... I wanted a system like that, but unfortunately they don't make it. Neither does Bilstein. I've sent emails to all of them. I don't mind changing it manually, since it's more adjustable than a two step adjustment program

Similar answer I got for my Z4MC then, but I went for Bilstein B16 PSS10 in the end (price/performance calc said the Ohlins were likely to be too expensive if/when they ever made a Z4M kit) - and I'd heard some stories about the KW V3s being more difficult to adjust (I believe that's changed since I bought mine though).

[Jorge Pereira]

mmm-five said:

Similar answer I got for my Z4MC then, but I went for Bilstein B16 PSS10 in the end.

With or without damptronic? I remember, around 2007-08, this guy had a 335d touring, and he installed some Bilstein damper, with damptronic. He had a button inside the cabin with comfort-sport and he could change it at his own whim. Find it strange that they say the e46 can't have it, since the 335d didn't come with DDC from factory at all

Also, would you recommend? Have you ever had Ohlins or KW?

Edited by Jorge Pereira on Tuesday 5th May 14:19

[mmm-five]

Jorge Pereira said:

With or without damptronic? I remember, around 2007-08, this guy had a 335d touring, and he installed some Bilstein damper, with damptronic. He had a button inside the cabin with comfort-sport and he could change it at his own whim. Find it strange that they say the e46 can't have it, since the 335d didn't come with DDC from factory at all

Without, as Bilstein wouldn't/couldn't do an electronic system for such a small market.

At the time - 5 years ago I think - I was limited to H&R, Bilstein B12/B16, KW V3/Clubsport, Nitron R1/R3, or MOTON.

Z4M is different to the e46 M3 though, so what's available for one is not necessarily available for the other.

[Steve Rance]

Jorge Pereira said:

Thank you very much for the thorough reply.

I had thought about the Clubsport, but decided against it because of price and the probable harsh ride, since it will mostly be a road car. I'm experienced in a way, with less track experience at this age, although I used to race go karts when I was younger.

The shop which I'll be buying from said that KW would produce these on demand, with spring rates according to my car. Then they would corner balance it with scales. From there I will play with the settings to see what I like most, returning to "factory" if I get something I don't like.

Having read this, you'd still recommend the clubsports for what is mainly a street car? My car, with the CSL shocks, corners damn well. The front end is precise and is eager to tuck in the nose, even during cornering. I'm running sport cup 2 with 235 at the front which might also help. The drawback is the jarring suspension for pottling around. On the motorway, while I testing my top speed, because of a bump,

the DSC light came on at 240 kph, and I think it was because the car gets a bit unsettled due to the harsh (15+ year old technology) suspension.

One thing the V3's don't have, from KW, are camber plates, which would be a nice addition.

Yes, I would still recommend the Clubsport as the damping control is probably the best for the price bracket. Unless you are a very experienced track/race driver I would not recommend that you set the dampers up yourself. It is unlikely that you will find the best achievable balance for your requirements and you will waste several track days in the process. Given that the coat of each day is close to £1000, I would strongly advise you to buy from a tuner who has a high degree of set up knowledge of your car - preferably a race team. You will definitely need adjustable top mounts - which usually come as standard with the Clubsport range. Bear in mind that set up is always a trade off with neutral balance generally being the goal. Sharp turn in is great - providing the rear of the car has proportionally the same level of grip. If it doesn’t, you are going to create oversteer either before or at the apex. Do you want your rear damping set up to bias towards deploying power on exit or to maximise apex speed? Etc...

Whatever you decide to buy, I would strongly urge you to leave the development to a proven tuner that has done all of the hard work for you

[gareth h]

I found spring rates on the V3 pretty much spot on for road use. Having had Bilsteins on a 123D and part of a Birds kit on my 335, and having had 3 damper failures (fortunately all during the warranty period) I wouldn’t go back to them.

[FTW]

For mostly road and some track use the DFV equipped Ohlins are very very good. DFV gives very good compression damping especially on road with lots of undulation such Wales black mountain roads, pot holes etc. The DFV is good on track if you touch a big curb. The rebound damping control and build quality are also superb. To match Ohlins your looking at the top end of the KW range. I’d only consider the Clubsports personally thanks to the better damping and flexibility of set up. Also try different spring rates. Especially on the KWs which I’ve always found are too soft. You can also use spring rate to alter the ride heights and corner weights if want.

The DFV is hydraulic bump stop. Most cars use a cone of PU material to increase the spring rate at the extreme of bump track. The DFV give you more opens on how that spring rate increase comes in.

Above all though no matter how good these dampers are or how expensive, if they are set up badly it will drive like a bag of st. Damper tuning done by an OEM is a near 12 month process of changes and fine tuning on multiple road surfaces and environments. It takes a long time to dial in a good set up especially if you’re new to it expect to spend a lot of time under your car and driving over the same road over and over tuning.

The jarring you mention may well be the poly bushes transmitting inputs straight into the subframe and body not the dampers so that might not go away. Is the jarring felt through the seat or steering?

Good luck especially with the tuning 😊.

[Jorge Pereira]

Steve Rance said:

Yes, I would still recommend the Clubsport as the damping control is probably the best for the price bracket. Unless you are a very experienced track/race driver I would not recommend that you set the dampers up yourself. It is unlikely that you will find the best achievable balance for your requirements and you will waste several track days in the process. Given that the coat of each day is close to £1000, I would strongly advise you to buy from a tuner who has a high degree of set up knowledge of your car - preferably a race team. You will definitely need adjustable top mounts - which usually come as standard with the Clubsport range. Bear in mind that set up is always a trade off with neutral balance generally being the goal. Sharp turn in is great - providing the rear of the car has proportionally the same level of grip. If it doesn’t, you are going to create oversteer either before or at the apex. Do you want your rear damping set up to bias towards deploying power on exit or to maximise apex speed? Etc...

Whatever you decide to buy, I would strongly urge you to leave the development to a proven tuner that has done all of the hard work for you

The shop I'm buying from does race, but they said that it's KW themselves that would specify the spring rates, according to my can. I can only imagine that they will do it according to their standards. I did not ask whether I can ask for different spring rates.

Trying to find a set of adjustable top mounts that work with the V3's. As far as I'm aware, the Ohlins don't come with them either. At the moment, my car is very well balanced during cornering.
As I said, I'm going to delve into my preference when I hit the track, as I have always been able to understand what I prefer, while driving.

This is more about whether the V3's or the Ohlins are a good compromise for 90% road and 10% track. Didn't think the clubsports would be a good call, but I'll look into it.

To sum it up, I want to maintain, or even increase my handling (which is already great IMO), but also get a higher comfort level, hence the search for an adjustable suspension.

[Jorge Pereira]

gareth h said:

I found spring rates on the V3 pretty much spot on for road use. Having had Bilsteins on a 123D and part of a Birds kit on my 335, and having had 3 damper failures (fortunately all during the warranty period) I wouldn’t go back to them.

What about spring rates for track? Did you enjoy them there?

[Jorge Pereira]

FTW said:

For mostly road and some track use the DFV equipped Ohlins are very very good. DFV gives very good compression damping especially on road with lots of undulation such Wales black mountain roads, pot holes etc. The DFV is good on track if you touch a big curb. The rebound damping control and build quality are also superb. To match Ohlins your looking at the top end of the KW range. I’d only consider the Clubsports personally thanks to the better damping and flexibility of set up. Also try different spring rates. Especially on the KWs which I’ve always found are too soft. You can also use spring rate to alter the ride heights and corner weights if want.

The DFV is hydraulic bump stop. Most cars use a cone of PU material to increase the spring rate at the extreme of bump track. The DFV give you more opens on how that spring rate increase comes in.

Above all though no matter how good these dampers are or how expensive, if they are set up badly it will drive like a bag of st. Damper tuning done by an OEM is a near 12 month process of changes and fine tuning on multiple road surfaces and environments. It takes a long time to dial in a good set up especially if you’re new to it expect to spend a lot of time under your car and driving over the same road over and over tuning.

The jarring you mention may well be the poly bushes transmitting inputs straight into the subframe and body not the dampers so that might not go away. Is the jarring felt through the seat or steering?

Good luck especially with the tuning ??.

Thank you very much for your input. I would think that V3 and the Ohlins road and track would be at the same level. I confess that I'm quite curious and would like to test both, back to back.

For example, while driving over a speed bump, when the suspension is compressing, I feel like there isn't enough dampening. I can say that I feel it more on the seat, but I atribute it more to the suspension, but this is my first poly bushed car.

[gareth h]

Jorge Pereira said:

gareth h said:

I found spring rates on the V3 pretty much spot on for road use. Having had Bilsteins on a 123D and part of a Birds kit on my 335, and having had 3 damper failures (fortunately all during the warranty period) I wouldn’t go back to them.

What about spring rates for track? Did you enjoy them there?

I did a couple and it was fine, it was my daily, I put 70k miles on it so road performance was more of a concern for me, 18” rims make a big difference too, reduces tramlining and calms things down on bumpy roads, either with spacers on the front or the same offset as the CSL rims.