Courage to start a new series
Discussion
Quite simply, I hope the 7 teams who are unhappy with F1 stand their ground and start a new series without Ecclestone and the FIA.
I think there are too many people who are overplaying their position, and I just hope the team bosses finally say (and soon), "Enough is enough".
If anyone here is in business there is a point where you get to when you are being messed around (like the teams are at the moment) when you say "sod it - i'm off". And I really hope thats where the teams are now.
As a viewer I am sick of F1. The new rules are ill thought out at the best of times, Mad Max is a halfwit & Ecclestone just strikes me as greedy. If I were in such a circus standing between Mr Halfwit and Mr Greedy, and I was the show - I'd soon find the door and leave these people with nothing.
We have (until now) had a sport dominated by one team who are treated differently to all the other teams. Well, if they are so f**king brilliant - let them have a series all on their own. F1 could be renamed "Ferrari 1" to save any further ambiguity.
And then a new series could come about where cars actually race it each other and teams actually work to put on a show rather than figure out what strategy to play this week because Mad Max picked the number 14 out of a hat. "Today boys and girls rule 14 is - adding a jump into the circuit to slow you down and increase ground clearences. Trust me - it'll make the sport more watchable. Next week you have to fit rims with diameters of 4 foot and we'll call it Monster Weekend!".
So as I say, this has to stop. And I hope the team bosses finally say "enough is enough - you play your game of F1, and we will start a real competition for ourselves."
I keep reading Mad Max saying this could not happen?? WTF? Are you telling me that 7 teams who spend in excess of a £1b per annum on a sport are unable to put on a race? Pay for the medical cover? Phone up the owners of Brands Hatch and all the other non F1 tracks? How about a quick call to Red Ken - can we borrow London for a weekend please? A quick call to the BBC - want to cover a grand prix free of charge this week?
There are examples of people in life who could not organise a p*ss up in a pub. The current F1 teams are not in that catergory.
Just wanted to get that off my chest.
I think there are too many people who are overplaying their position, and I just hope the team bosses finally say (and soon), "Enough is enough".
If anyone here is in business there is a point where you get to when you are being messed around (like the teams are at the moment) when you say "sod it - i'm off". And I really hope thats where the teams are now.
As a viewer I am sick of F1. The new rules are ill thought out at the best of times, Mad Max is a halfwit & Ecclestone just strikes me as greedy. If I were in such a circus standing between Mr Halfwit and Mr Greedy, and I was the show - I'd soon find the door and leave these people with nothing.
We have (until now) had a sport dominated by one team who are treated differently to all the other teams. Well, if they are so f**king brilliant - let them have a series all on their own. F1 could be renamed "Ferrari 1" to save any further ambiguity.
And then a new series could come about where cars actually race it each other and teams actually work to put on a show rather than figure out what strategy to play this week because Mad Max picked the number 14 out of a hat. "Today boys and girls rule 14 is - adding a jump into the circuit to slow you down and increase ground clearences. Trust me - it'll make the sport more watchable. Next week you have to fit rims with diameters of 4 foot and we'll call it Monster Weekend!".
So as I say, this has to stop. And I hope the team bosses finally say "enough is enough - you play your game of F1, and we will start a real competition for ourselves."
I keep reading Mad Max saying this could not happen?? WTF? Are you telling me that 7 teams who spend in excess of a £1b per annum on a sport are unable to put on a race? Pay for the medical cover? Phone up the owners of Brands Hatch and all the other non F1 tracks? How about a quick call to Red Ken - can we borrow London for a weekend please? A quick call to the BBC - want to cover a grand prix free of charge this week?
There are examples of people in life who could not organise a p*ss up in a pub. The current F1 teams are not in that catergory.
Just wanted to get that off my chest.
As I said in another thread, I think the Max, by his actions, has only hastened his own potential demise. By acting as he did at Indy and thereafter (interviews, cancelling GPDA meetings etc) I suspect he is merely strengthening the resolve of the teams to form a breakaway series and make it successful.
Not only would they do away with the nonsensical meddling, but they would be able to concoct a set of technical rules where the expertise and innovation of the teams can be truly displayed. Furthermore, they would get the increased cut of profits they have been after for a while now. After all, the teams (and their employee drivers) are the ones who actually make the show and who the fans turn out to see.
[k]
Not only would they do away with the nonsensical meddling, but they would be able to concoct a set of technical rules where the expertise and innovation of the teams can be truly displayed. Furthermore, they would get the increased cut of profits they have been after for a while now. After all, the teams (and their employee drivers) are the ones who actually make the show and who the fans turn out to see.
[k]
Good point John, but F1 won't be much of a threat with just Ferrari and Red Bull. Plus, unless they get rid of the deposit required, they won't get many new teams assuming that the GPWC realise that by not requiring such financial commitment any potential new teams will head their way.
Interesting thread though - even if I did think it was about a one make Le Mans prototype series when I saw the title...
Interesting thread though - even if I did think it was about a one make Le Mans prototype series when I saw the title...
tinman0 said:
Quite simply, I hope the 7 teams who are unhappy with F1 stand their ground and start a new series without Ecclestone and the FIA.
I think there are too many people who are overplaying their position, and I just hope the team bosses finally say (and soon), "Enough is enough".
If anyone here is in business there is a point where you get to when you are being messed around (like the teams are at the moment) when you say "sod it - i'm off". And I really hope thats where the teams are now.
As a viewer I am sick of F1. The new rules are ill thought out at the best of times, Mad Max is a halfwit & Ecclestone just strikes me as greedy. If I were in such a circus standing between Mr Halfwit and Mr Greedy, and I was the show - I'd soon find the door and leave these people with nothing.
We have (until now) had a sport dominated by one team who are treated differently to all the other teams. Well, if they are so f**king brilliant - let them have a series all on their own. F1 could be renamed "Ferrari 1" to save any further ambiguity.
And then a new series could come about where cars actually race it each other and teams actually work to put on a show rather than figure out what strategy to play this week because Mad Max picked the number 14 out of a hat. "Today boys and girls rule 14 is - adding a jump into the circuit to slow you down and increase ground clearences. Trust me - it'll make the sport more watchable. Next week you have to fit rims with diameters of 4 foot and we'll call it Monster Weekend!".
So as I say, this has to stop. And I hope the team bosses finally say "enough is enough - you play your game of F1, and we will start a real competition for ourselves."
I keep reading Mad Max saying this could not happen?? WTF? Are you telling me that 7 teams who spend in excess of a £1b per annum on a sport are unable to put on a race? Pay for the medical cover? Phone up the owners of Brands Hatch and all the other non F1 tracks? How about a quick call to Red Ken - can we borrow London for a weekend please? A quick call to the BBC - want to cover a grand prix free of charge this week?
There are examples of people in life who could not organise a p*ss up in a pub. The current F1 teams are not in that catergory.
Just wanted to get that off my chest.
F1 is not about sport, it is about money. The hundreds of millions of pounds spent by the teams comes in the main from sponsors who see commercial advantages from association with F1 and the huge global television audiences. Would they spend the same amount of money for advertising on cars in a new untried series? If Bernie has contracts in place with the television companies will the new series get the same coverage? If the manufacturers decide that the new series is not generating the prestige conveyed by F1 will they stick around? And who will regulate the new series?
A new series will not be possible before 2008 due to contractual issues, and if it is to happen then there is an awful amount of planning that needs to be done and done soon. If Bernie sides with the teams then it may be more likely, but Bernie will do what is best for Bernie.
And whatever else Max Mosley may be I don't think that his worst enemies would accuse him of being a halfwit.
I expect a compromise will be thrashed out eventually. The current regulatory structure may not be perfect but it is in place and I can't see that the teams will be able to replicate everything necessary.
I disagree. F1 is about sport. I agree that the sponsors need coverage but who says this couldn't happen under a new series?
ITV maybe contractually bound to F1 for the next X years - but the BBC isn't. The same must be true for every other country in the world. The TV rights may of been sold - but there is always another TV company who would want to steal a march.
The manufacturers are there for the racing. A fast procession is not good for them or the sport. Also, if the manufacturers are always having to defer to rules that are bent for Ferrari - whats the point of racing? No one wants to race for 2nd. No one can sell a car when it came second. "This is a great car sir, remember, we came 9th in the last grand prix"
Buyers want to be associated with winners and thats the risk the manufacturers take. Having 1st place awarded to Ferrari by default is not racing.
The other issue is who would want to race against Ferrari if the teams did break up? We saw what happened in Indi, 2 red cars, 2 yellow one and a couple of black ones at the back? You will have numerous seasons where Ferrari keep winning because no one can get close to them as they are all new teams.
I disagree; Molsey is a halfwit. Here is someone staring retirement in the face and is doing all he can to ensure that he leaves on a low. Any other person who has been in any business for years wants to leave on a high - something where people remember you for years to come. But not Mad Max. Hes aiming to leave on a low and to be remembered as the Dick Dastardly of F1.
ITV maybe contractually bound to F1 for the next X years - but the BBC isn't. The same must be true for every other country in the world. The TV rights may of been sold - but there is always another TV company who would want to steal a march.
The manufacturers are there for the racing. A fast procession is not good for them or the sport. Also, if the manufacturers are always having to defer to rules that are bent for Ferrari - whats the point of racing? No one wants to race for 2nd. No one can sell a car when it came second. "This is a great car sir, remember, we came 9th in the last grand prix"
Buyers want to be associated with winners and thats the risk the manufacturers take. Having 1st place awarded to Ferrari by default is not racing.
The other issue is who would want to race against Ferrari if the teams did break up? We saw what happened in Indi, 2 red cars, 2 yellow one and a couple of black ones at the back? You will have numerous seasons where Ferrari keep winning because no one can get close to them as they are all new teams.
I disagree; Molsey is a halfwit. Here is someone staring retirement in the face and is doing all he can to ensure that he leaves on a low. Any other person who has been in any business for years wants to leave on a high - something where people remember you for years to come. But not Mad Max. Hes aiming to leave on a low and to be remembered as the Dick Dastardly of F1.
I agree with all of the above - good points, one and all.
Interesting isn't it how times change? I seem to recall Ferrari building an Indycar to put pressure on the FIA some time ago. I think it was in relation to the change to 3.5l V10s, but I may be wrong. I fear on this occasion, they may have sided with the wrong crowd, taking a short term advantage (ie FIA favouritism) at the expense of the long-term future of the sport. Whilst winning is important, I'm not sure the Old Man would have approved of going about it this way.
At the end of the day, without the majority of the teams on-side with the FIA, there is no F1. They couldn't run a whole series like the Indy race, but the reality is that this is all the FIA could be left with if the GPWC gets off the ground, or a compromise is not brokered somehow.
[k]
Interesting isn't it how times change? I seem to recall Ferrari building an Indycar to put pressure on the FIA some time ago. I think it was in relation to the change to 3.5l V10s, but I may be wrong. I fear on this occasion, they may have sided with the wrong crowd, taking a short term advantage (ie FIA favouritism) at the expense of the long-term future of the sport. Whilst winning is important, I'm not sure the Old Man would have approved of going about it this way.
At the end of the day, without the majority of the teams on-side with the FIA, there is no F1. They couldn't run a whole series like the Indy race, but the reality is that this is all the FIA could be left with if the GPWC gets off the ground, or a compromise is not brokered somehow.
[k]
tinman0 said:
I disagree. F1 is about sport. I agree that the sponsors need coverage but who says this couldn't happen under a new series?
ITV maybe contractually bound to F1 for the next X years - but the BBC isn't. The same must be true for every other country in the world. The TV rights may of been sold - but there is always another TV company who would want to steal a march.
The manufacturers are there for the racing. A fast procession is not good for them or the sport. Also, if the manufacturers are always having to defer to rules that are bent for Ferrari - whats the point of racing? No one wants to race for 2nd. No one can sell a car when it came second. "This is a great car sir, remember, we came 9th in the last grand prix"
Buyers want to be associated with winners and thats the risk the manufacturers take. Having 1st place awarded to Ferrari by default is not racing.
The other issue is who would want to race against Ferrari if the teams did break up? We saw what happened in Indi, 2 red cars, 2 yellow one and a couple of black ones at the back? You will have numerous seasons where Ferrari keep winning because no one can get close to them as they are all new teams.
I disagree; Molsey is a halfwit. Here is someone staring retirement in the face and is doing all he can to ensure that he leaves on a low. Any other person who has been in any business for years wants to leave on a high - something where people remember you for years to come. But not Mad Max. Hes aiming to leave on a low and to be remembered as the Dick Dastardly of F1.
F1 may be a sport to you, but to the marketing departments of multi-national corporations it is about exposure and brand image, both of which F1 provides. A new series may do the same, eventually, but the risks involved are huge. Will they get the TV coverage? Will they be able to agree a set of rules under which to race? Will F1 remain and dilute the available sponsorsip money? I can't see it happening mainly because it is in no-ones interests for it to happen.
If you think the manufacturers are there for the racing then you are wrong, they are there to sell cars.If they don't get the returns they are looking for then they will leave, they are accountable to their shareholders for profitability not race wins. If for example Toyota dominated a new series for a few seasons could Honda afford to stay? Similarly, if BMW continually trounced Mercedes would they agree to a new set of rules that took away their advantage? At least the FIA have no financial interest in who wins or loses. And as for the rules being bent for Ferrari, this season's rule changes were partly intended to break the recent Ferrari dominance.
Mosley may be stubborn, vindictive, devious and manipulative, but he is not a halfwit. And as for leaving on a high, perhaps he is not interested in popularity but is doing what he thinks is right for the sport. And for the FIA at least it is a sport.
david_s said:You make a number of good points, David, but this one is wrong.
At least the FIA have no financial interest in who wins or loses. And as for the rules being bent for Ferrari, this season's rule changes were partly intended to break the recent Ferrari dominance.
The FIA of 2005 has an enormous stake in keeping Ferrari sweet. As mentioned on other threads, if the GPWC succeeds it will cost the FIA dear. To avert that the FIA chose the strategy of tying Ferrari in to themselves and Bernie, thereby attempting to force the hand of the Group of Seven. If Ferrari were to return to the GPWC, the FIA would be shafted. Is it even remotely plausible that a man as selfish, manipulative and scheming as Mosley is indifferent to how Ferrari do?
To put it another way, intellectually Mosley may not care whether they win per se, and sentimentally he may not care (although you wouldn't know it from the appearance of favouritism in the last several seasons), but he cares obsessively about his own status and that of the FIA, and they can only be sustained by keeping Ferrari on side.
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