ARB Drop Links - Recommendation?

[Alfa.Male]

Hi all,

After some recommendations please..... Car has uprated ARBs front and rear, problem is it's getting through front drop links every few months and I can't find any that last. The ARB is set properly and the front runs zero preload. I've tried several makes, all claiming to be heavy duty but makes no difference. Tried rose joints with weather boots as well but they were knocking within a month.

So, recommendations please? Need to be adjustable and circa 100mm between centres.

Thanks

[paintman]

I see you give your occupation as 'motorsport engine builder'.

I'm a bit surprised given that that you haven't been able to get any suitable links from contacts within motorsport who I expect would be using far tougher kit than any you're likely to have recommended on here.
Assuming of course that you have asked & if you haven't that's certainly the route I would take.

[Alfa.Male]

paintman said:

I see you give your occupation as 'motorsport engine builder'.

I'm a bit surprised given that that you haven't been able to get any suitable links from contacts within motorsport who I expect would be using far tougher kit than any you're likely to have recommended on here.
Assuming of course that you have asked & if you haven't that's certainly the route I would take.

A couple of the links I've tried have been designed with motorsport in mind. Road cars will generally subject suspension components to more extremes than tarmac race cars.

Yup, I build engines. But most of them have Ducati cast in to the cases so not many of my contacts even know what a drop link is!!

[stevieturbo]

Alfa.Male said:

Hi all,

After some recommendations please..... Car has uprated ARBs front and rear, problem is it's getting through front drop links every few months and I can't find any that last. The ARB is set properly and the front runs zero preload. I've tried several makes, all claiming to be heavy duty but makes no difference. Tried rose joints with weather boots as well but they were knocking within a month.

So, recommendations please? Need to be adjustable and circa 100mm between centres.

Thanks

Is it a Paris-Dakar kind of deal, or what sort of usage ?

And what have you been using ? What fitment ? What sort of overall length ? And all Chinesium parts before, or other ?

[Alfa.Male]

stevieturbo said:

Is it a Paris-Dakar kind of deal, or what sort of usage ?

And what have you been using ? What fitment ? What sort of overall length ? And all Chinesium parts before, or other ?

Just a normal road car that spends quite a lot of time on the track. No off-roading, at least not intentional.

I've tried various types from eBay cheapies to supposedly good stuff like Superpro and White Line. The rose joints I tried were decent quality too.

I'm now looking at RoadNutz items. Never heard of them but they put a 3 year warranty on their joints. They're also pretty cheap too - £60 for the front pair. I need circa 100mm between centres.

[paintman]

Alfa.Male said:

paintman said:

I see you give your occupation as 'motorsport engine builder'.

I'm a bit surprised given that that you haven't been able to get any suitable links from contacts within motorsport who I expect would be using far tougher kit than any you're likely to have recommended on here.
Assuming of course that you have asked & if you haven't that's certainly the route I would take.

A couple of the links I've tried have been designed with motorsport in mind. Road cars will generally subject suspension components to more extremes than tarmac race cars.

As suggested by stevieturbo I wonder if any of the rallycross bods would be able to assist?

Alfa.Male said:

Yup, I build engines. But most of them have Ducati cast in to the cases so not many of my contacts even know what a drop link is!!

Edited by paintman on Wednesday 28th December 17:33

[GreenV8S]

Are the rod end bearings oriented correctly so that the axis of rotation is parallel to the mounting bolt?

[stevieturbo]

Alfa.Male said:

Just a normal road car that spends quite a lot of time on the track. No off-roading, at least not intentional.

I've tried various types from eBay cheapies to supposedly good stuff like Superpro and White Line. The rose joints I tried were decent quality too.

I'm now looking at RoadNutz items. Never heard of them but they put a 3 year warranty on their joints. They're also pretty cheap too - £60 for the front pair. I need circa 100mm between centres.

And again what car, what fitment ? studs, stubs, holes, what ?

I would never expect cheap ones to last, OEM will almost always last longer.

If you're destroying them in normal use, then more likely something in the fitment aspect is the problem, not the joint. Whether there is not enough range of motion, they're binding up somewhere in the travel, etc etc

Even a bare exposed rose joint of good quality will easily last longer than what you're suggesting.

[Alfa.Male]

stevieturbo said:

And again what car, what fitment ? studs, stubs, holes, what ?

I would never expect cheap ones to last, OEM will almost always last longer.

If you're destroying them in normal use, then more likely something in the fitment aspect is the problem, not the joint. Whether there is not enough range of motion, they're binding up somewhere in the travel, etc etc

Even a bare exposed rose joint of good quality will easily last longer than what you're suggesting.

It's an Alfa 147. Have already double-checked fitment and it's good; correctly orientated, no binding, no rub or witness marks, no preload (though that alone shouldn't make them fail anyway). So installation is all good.

Back to the original question - any makes you can recommend please?

[stevieturbo]

Alfa.Male said:

It's an Alfa 147. Have already double-checked fitment and it's good; correctly orientated, no binding, no rub or witness marks, no preload (though that alone shouldn't make them fail anyway). So installation is all good.

Back to the original question - any makes you can recommend please?

As said, for an Alfa...I'd go to Alfa Romeo. If you really need adjustability, then assuming they are not plastic, just modify them so they are adjustable.

Failing that, make your own with some good quality rose joints, not Chinese stuff.

But if you're the only person killing joints....it seems likely the joints are not the problem, whatever brand

[BertBert]

For me rose joints are disposable items so I'd not use them in a road car setting unless you are happy checking and changing a lot. (which we do on the race cars ).

I'd want a metallastic or polyurethane type bush. can't help with any specific recommendations other than spec up and get some fabricated to the strength needed which is what I'd be inclined to do.

what mode of failure are you seeing?

[Alfa.Male]

BertBert said:

For me rose joints are disposable items so I'd not use them in a road car setting unless you are happy checking and changing a lot. (which we do on the race cars ).

I'd want a metallastic or polyurethane type bush. can't help with any specific recommendations other than spec up and get some fabricated to the strength needed which is what I'd be inclined to do.

what mode of failure are you seeing?

Agree ref using rose joints, though I had hoped the boots might help a bit. Checking/changing not an issue as it's a hobby car, not a daily. I just want the things to last a bit longer!

It's the actual joint that's failing, with either lateral or axial play - same every time (though not the same position). I've set many cars up over the years and don't see a reason why this one is proving to be a pain. Suspension is lowered 36mm and the track is 40mm wider courtesy of different hubs. The ARBs are by Eibach and stiffer than standard, though not mad stiff. It doesn't matter which mounting holes I use for the links, they still fail. The rear ARB links haven't been an issue at all and I'm deliberately running that with a little preload, it's only ever the front that fail.

[jeremyc]

Alfa.Male said:

It's the actual joint that's failing, with either lateral or axial play - same every time (though not the same position).

Suspension is lowered 36mm and the track is 40mm wider courtesy of different hubs.

Have you not answered your own question?

If you put the suspension geometry back to standard do the drop links still wear out rapidly?

Could it be possible that the changes have caused the drop links to be misaligned?

[Alfa.Male]

jeremyc said:

ave you not answered your own question?

If you put the suspension geometry back to standard do the drop links still wear out rapidly?

Could it be possible that the changes have caused the drop links to be misaligned?

Returning the suspension to standard spec would be a seriously long job. Always open to ideas but I'm totally confident that everything is fitted and orientated correctly so there's little to be gained by doing that.

Thanks all for your input, I'll continue looking for the golden fleece and report back.

[stevieturbo]

Alfa.Male said:

It's the actual joint that's failing, with either lateral or axial play - same every time (though not the same position).

So you're claiming it is "failing", but your post seems to suggest it is only the actual spherical bearing that is worn a little ?

Is this what you are saying ? A little play is hardly failed, just worn.

And again....are you using cheap ste parts, or proper rose joints ? And are you racing in the sand or something ?

[Alfa.Male]

stevieturbo said:

So you're claiming it is "failing", but your post seems to suggest it is only the actual spherical bearing that is worn a little ?

Is this what you are saying ? A little play is hardly failed, just worn.

And again....are you using cheap ste parts, or proper rose joints ? And are you racing in the sand or something ?

I'm not claiming anything, I'm telling you what's been happening.

Not sure you understand the issue. A worn drop link is a failed drop link - 'a little play' in the bearing will wear disproportionately quickly causing knocking (amplified by the time it reaches the cabin) and, more importantly, compromised handling. If the suspension can't transfer its energy to the ARB then the link has failed, simple as that. The bearings are the only component that can fail really.

Tried Chinese crap through to Superpro links at £130 a pair, plus a few in between at middling prices. The result is always the same.

The rears are fine, set with a little preload and on their stiffest mounting position and they've been fine for almost a year. That's 4,000mls and 11 track days. It's only the fronts that wear VERY quickly. Obviously they're subjected to more stress on a front engined FWD car, but they're still failing way sooner than I'd expect.

[stevieturbo]

Alfa.Male said:

I'm not claiming anything, I'm telling you what's been happening.

Not sure you understand the issue. A worn drop link is a failed drop link - 'a little play' in the bearing will wear disproportionately quickly causing knocking (amplified by the time it reaches the cabin) and, more importantly, compromised handling. If the suspension can't transfer its energy to the ARB then the link has failed, simple as that. The bearings are the only component that can fail really.

Tried Chinese crap through to Superpro links at £130 a pair, plus a few in between at middling prices. The result is always the same.

The rears are fine, set with a little preload and on their stiffest mounting position and they've been fine for almost a year. That's 4,000mls and 11 track days. It's only the fronts that wear VERY quickly. Obviously they're subjected to more stress on a front engined FWD car, but they're still failing way sooner than I'd expect.

As you say you're an engine builder, if a component was worn slightly, would you say the engine has failed ? No.

Never even heard of Superpro whoever they are.

If you just buy some good rose joints, make your own. Demon Tweeks even have a lot on sale at the minute, get good PTFE lined heavy duty units, likely £30-40 per rod end depending on size.
Any full kit being sold at £130 retail, is likely cheap stuff, quality rose joints aren't cheap.

Although googling Superpro, they seem to sell mostly OE style joints, just adapted with an adjuster rod in the middle. Other than them using cheap parts, again the biggest reason for such a thing to fail prematurely other than low quality, is bad alignment overstressing one or more joints.
Although with that, you do not state whether it is one that "fails" every time, or 2, 3, 4...which would seem very odd for all to "fail" as you put it.

As said, either buy good quality rose joints and make your own or use OEM joints and adapt them to adjust however you please. Ensuring throughout all range of motion nothing anywhere binds up.