S1 Elise Honda K Swap
S1 Elise Honda K Swap
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Dixie

Original Poster:

736 posts

251 months

Friday 26th January 2024
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This winter I was planning on painting the front clam in the garage. Just a little something to keep me busy at the weekends until spring when I’d put the car back on the road. I’m not sure what happened but I somehow managed to convince myself that I should probably change the entire engine and gearbox instead.

|https://thumbsnap.com/npaGtmUJ[/url]

I’ve had an S1 for over 15 years now. Currently on my second after selling my first and regretting it ever after. I’ve always wanted to do an engine conversion but never really had the time. The first car was my daily driver so I did very little to it that would take it off the road for very long.
My second car is purely for sunny days and track days. Since I bought it in 2019 its never really spent a winter in one piece. I’ve uprated the brakes, suspension, interior as well as the usual stuff to the engine and gearbox. It had a KR1 with fancy cams and all the usual stuff people do to rover engines with the standard ECU. The next step would have been to get an Emerald and probably some ITBs but I was always conscious that the car would get less usable if I took it much further. It was probably running around 150bhp. Although I never got it dyno’d to actually find out.
The car does it’s fair share of trackdays. Maybe 5 a year with the odd evening at Donnington thrown in. It’s behaved almost faultlessly in that time. On the longer tracks though, like Donnington and Bedford, the lack of power was very much evident.
I looked around at a few already converted cars but they were all pretty pricey plus I’d have to sell my current car. Which is a lovely late model S1 with a smidge over 50k on the clock. It made far more sense financially to convert my own. It should cost me about £6k depending on how much of the old stuff I sold and how much the new engine would cost me. I think it more than adds that to the value of the car so it’s a win win situation right. I couldn’t really afford NOT to do it. ??
Theres a few options out there for kits. I did my research and decided that the Stark kit was the way to go. They’ve been around for a good few years so most if not all of the issues have been sorted. Slightly more affordable too.
Before I ordered the kit I thought I’d best find a donor package. K20A2s are getting a little thin on the ground, especially with reasonable milage on them so I was initially looking at the later K20Z4 from the rounder FN2 shape Civics. Theres seemingly loads about and a whole car can be had for less then £3k I figured I could make a few quid back on breaking the donor for parts. The other half even agreed to me taking up the driveway with the shell while it was striped own. However it seems like the kits available are pretty much only designed for the earlier A2 version from the EP3. By the time you factor in a new oil pump, sump and throttle body as well as the issues with the gearbox it started to look more difficult.
Theres a fair few Honda specialist breakers around though so finding an A2 isn’t to difficult. I bought a “swap kit” That consisted of almost everything I needed for £2500. It apparently has only covered 85k miles. I have a video of it running (I’ll see if I can attach it) and a photo of the car it supposedly is coming out of. The MOT history checks out for the milage if the Engine and the car in question have indeed ever met. Time will tell.
Bits I didn’t get that I need from the swap kit. O2 sensor. Intermediate driveshaft heat shield. “E” and “C101” plugs and tails (the latter has the female plug on the engine loom but it’s very handy to have the other side of it). Make sure you get all the fixing bolts for the gearbox, heatshield and driveshaft too.

Here’s the engine once I got it home. I did one of the most important jobs first and repainted the rocker back to the original red with crinkle paint. It looks a bit crap. Cold weather and spray paint don’t mix well.



I also watched a few videos on K20 teardowns. It seems a good tell tale sign of things going wrong it to check the gauze in the Vtec mechanism for bits of metal. I wish I’d have known this before I bought the engine as it would have saved me some anxiety. Thankfully it looked all good on the inside.



Terrible photo but it’s all clear. You can just about make out the gauze in the far right section.

So, car jacked up in the air. I started the strip the back end down again. You can see the oh so red cover hiding in the back ground. I don’t have the biggest garage in the world but there’s just about enough space.



I figured as I was in for a long job I’d strip it as far as possible to give me the maximum amount of room around the car. All the suspension would need to be out the way and for the first time I was going to remove the rear subframe. It came off surprisingly easily. Held on with just 4 bigish bolts. I'd already painted it a year or two ago while the clam was off but while it was totally removed I decided to give it a coat of high temperature paint, trying to get as much on the inside as I could.



With all that out of the way I removed the wiring harness, coolant and fuel lines and got to work removing the engine and gearbox as one. I didn’t have an engine crane at this point so I made a mini pallet from some scrap wood and lowered the chassis down until the engine sat on it. Unbolted it and jacked the cassis back up. I used a jack to lift the pallet to move it out the way.



Once it was all out a broke the engine down to individual parts and list them for sale in various places. I managed to sell pretty much everything in about a week which surprised me. It’s surprising cheap to ship biggish parts for not too much expense. I shipped a built up head weighing in at 20kg for £30 including insurance. In total I think I made back about £1800. More importantly I had a bit of space back in the garage.




Edited by Dixie on Friday 26th January 16:59
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Edited by Dixie on Friday 26th January 17:26

Dixie

Original Poster:

736 posts

251 months

Friday 26th January 2024
quotequote all
I managed to shove the chassis a little further forward to give myself a bit more room. I got the new engine up on a stand and started to strip the loom and ancillaries from it to give it a good clean. I was filthy. Especially compared to the rover lump I’d just removed. Theres doesn’t seem to be any leaks form anywhere. I’m thinking it’s likely just 15 years of road grime and un-mopped spillage.
I managed to shear a bolt off the thermostat. Luckily it was into the water pump housing. I tried to remove it but I butchered the hole. It was positioned in such a way that I wouldn’t have been able to get a nut on the back of it as well. So a new housing was found. After about 20 wire brush heads and a gallon of Gunk it cleaned up OK. Not sure the garage carpet will recover though.
One job was to get the sump off to 1, check there was indeed a decent baffle in there and 2, give it a damn good clearing out. It was all pretty clean. Some varnishing on the exhaust side but nothing to worry about. There was indeed a Clockworks baffle in there as well.

Before

After


Theres were thankfully no bits of engine in the oil pickup or in the sludge at the bottom of the sump.



With the matinf surfaces cleaned up and a bead of Hondabond it was sealed up again.

Now would be a perfect time to to the waterpump and timing chain. However the waterpump on there feels great. Possibly fairly recently changes. And the chain tensioner looks to be pretty much as far back as it can go indicating that it may have been changed in the not so recent past. I will change it at some point but i figured i'd wait to see if the engine is in decent condition forst before i spend £300+ on service parts.

At the end of that week a box turned up.....



The engine is back in one piece and ready to go in. Theres a few jobs to do first though which will be a load easier with the engine out the way.



Edited by Dixie on Friday 26th January 17:47

Kev_Mk3

3,262 posts

111 months

Friday 26th January 2024
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Will be following this!

Dixie

Original Poster:

736 posts

251 months

Friday 26th January 2024
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It's not strictly necessary and it'll probably make the cabin noise even louder but the old head shield/sound proofing on the bulkhead was looking very tired. I've read it's pretty easy to get off so I though I'd bling things up a little it some of the finest Chinese sticky back gold.

Lets just start by saying it's NOT that easy to get the old stuff off. I tried a few different chemicals on it but they all performed about the same. It took a good few hours to get everything off and clean. I was using a wallpaper scraper for the most part but i found a razor blade was probably the best tool for the job.



Once off and thoroughly degreased i was again a few hours worth of work to cover everything in the sticky bling. I had a couple of rolls of tape and a 1m x 1.2m sheet. If I were to do it again I think I'd just stick to the tape. I'm pretty pleased with the result.



It has to be said that I wouldn't trust this stuff where there is actually any real heat. Where the exhaust manifold runs close to the subframe I have some thicker heatproof matting that I intend to attach to the subframe then rivet Nimbus over the top of where it's particularly close.

Edited by Dixie on Friday 26th January 17:45

Dixie

Original Poster:

736 posts

251 months

Friday 26th January 2024
quotequote all
Next jobs are the fuel lines and gear selector cables. I was slightly dissapointed with the plain rubber fuel hose that i recieved in the kit so i might get a couple of meters of braided stuff to make the job look a bit more complete.

Joehow

944 posts

131 months

Friday 26th January 2024
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Absolutely loving this. I love my S1 and can see probably getting to the old honda swap at some point.

Great to hear your K series was reliable on track as well

Dixie

Original Poster:

736 posts

251 months

Monday 29th January 2024
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Joehow said:
Absolutely loving this. I love my S1 and can see probably getting to the old honda swap at some point.


Great to hear your K series was reliable on track as well

Youd be amazed how strong the K Series is. I had to change the head gasket when i got the car at 19 years old. To my knowledge it was the first time it had been changed. It was the original elastomer type. Where the rubber bits were it had failed. I only changed it due to seeing a slight misting of mayo in the filler cap. I replaced it like for like with the EP gasket.
I then changed the head a year or so later and this time opted for the uprated MLS gasket that i was advised to use by Rog of Sabre heads. It never missed a beat and I’m sure will continue to be solid for years to come.

On track it never gave any issues and quite happily maintained 85c the whole time. the only time the temperature increased was when sat in the paddock between sessions. Nothing a good cool down lap shouldn't sort out. I also fitted an electric water pump that I could leave running for 5 mons or so to make sure it kept as cool as it could.

The only reason i changed it was it's hard to get towards 200bhp reliably and while maintaining driveability. Plus the cost of doing that doesn't seem to carry to when you sell the car like it seems to with a Honda engined car.

The Rover engine can happily be hoofed around a track all day long with no issues. Just be mindful of the temperatures. That should go for any engine really though.

Joehow

944 posts

131 months

Monday 29th January 2024
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Dixie said:

Youd be amazed how strong the K Series is. I had to change the head gasket when i got the car at 19 years old. To my knowledge it was the first time it had been changed. It was the original elastomer type. Where the rubber bits were it had failed. I only changed it due to seeing a slight misting of mayo in the filler cap. I replaced it like for like with the EP gasket.
I then changed the head a year or so later and this time opted for the uprated MLS gasket that i was advised to use by Rog of Sabre heads. It never missed a beat and I’m sure will continue to be solid for years to come.

On track it never gave any issues and quite happily maintained 85c the whole time. the only time the temperature increased was when sat in the paddock between sessions. Nothing a good cool down lap shouldn't sort out. I also fitted an electric water pump that I could leave running for 5 mons or so to make sure it kept as cool as it could.

The only reason i changed it was it's hard to get towards 200bhp reliably and while maintaining driveability. Plus the cost of doing that doesn't seem to carry to when you sell the car like it seems to with a Honda engined car.

The Rover engine can happily be hoofed around a track all day long with no issues. Just be mindful of the temperatures. That should go for any engine really though.
Brilliant response thanks sir

Dixie

Original Poster:

736 posts

251 months

Tuesday 30th January 2024
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Little bit of progress on the build so far.

I tackled the gear linkage over the last couple of night. Not a particularly difficult job. I meant taking the seats out which meant i had to find a space for them to live. I've almost lost the front of the car with the amount of parts stacked on top of it..

The standard gear and handbrake mounts are a pretty cheap (and light I’m sure) affair. They're also razor sharp so after initially cutting my hands to bits i smoothed some of the edges off slightly with a file to prevent me from bleeding out.

The instructions were a little confusing when i initially read through them but when you're sat in the car with the parts in front of you they tend to make more sense. A slight edit to the instructions wouldn't hurt still in my opinion.

[url]

|https://thumbsnap.com/iWsnrJgb[/url][url]

|https://thumbsnap.com/oGtVKQJS[/url]

Theres some pretty decent pictures in the guide but hopefully these might help some others later down the line.


Once i had the front part of the gear linkage sorted (I'll add the gearbox side of things in a later update) i moved onto the fuel lines. I'd already removed the charcoal canister when taking the engine out. I also removed the bracket it was attached to as I’ll not be needing it any more.
I removed the small service hatch thing from the rear bulkhead. It's like Lotus measured the size of a human hand to figure out the size of the hole required and then reduced it by 10% before moving it to production. The edges are also again razor sharp. From there i unclipped the fasteners on top of the pump. Its way easier to do with the fuel lines cut, so cut them first then remove them.


When i have to replace the fuel pump it'll be really tempting to enlarge this hole. It's not structural and would make the job far easier. I'd just pop a few rivnuts in and cut a piece of alloy to make the new service hatch.

You need the connectors for the new lines so don’t drop them into the fuel tank void like i did. The hose in the kit is a fair bit girthier than the original stuff but it still fits through the grommets ok.
I was a little disappointed at the fuel line. For the sake of a few more quid it could have shipped with some nice braided stuff. Its just plain old black rubber hose. I ordered a couple of meters of Mocal braided stuff. I figured that for the sake of £40 whilst i'm at it i might as well do it properly.
Similarly the fuel pressure regulator is pretty cheap looking. I can upgrade that later if required though without to much effort.

Dixie

Original Poster:

736 posts

251 months

Wednesday 31st January 2024
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Does anyone know that the two gold hard lines are for in this picture. The ones that run along the side of the cam cover? I think one is from the manifold and goes to the brake servo? Not sure on the other.

There’s a few hoses from the throttle body that I’m not sure what to do with. I know a couple of them are for the heater loop that’s not required so presumably I just block them off?


Dixie

Original Poster:

736 posts

251 months

Friday 2nd February 2024
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The bearings in both the top pulley and the tensioner were far from perfect. Just the pulley wheels on their own for £40 or so each. It made sense to change them while they were so easily accessible. Rather than spend £80 a quick search showed that you can actually buy the bearings on their own.

japserviceparts.co.uk .. g-honda-civic-type-r-ep3-k20a/

I figured it was worth a shot so i set about pressing the old bearings out using a socket and a bench vice. 10 minutes later they were both out. So another order from Jap Service Parts was placed. I love how the standard deliver is OVERNIGHT. I hope it was a deliberate nod to the Fast and Furious films.

Once they arrived it was an equally quick job to press them back in. Happy days.

Dixie

Original Poster:

736 posts

251 months

Friday 2nd February 2024
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I also sorted out the fuel lines. A quick eBay purchase of a couple of meters of braided hose just to tart up the engine bay over the standard rubber pipe. I'm quite happy with the result.

The line from the T piece to the injector rail is missing. I'll stick that in once the engine is dropped into place.

If anything looks wrong please shout up.



Getting the line onto the tank ends is HARD work. It took quite some effort. The rest of the fixings were ok. One tip though. Don’t just shove the new line at the grommet hoping it'll just pop through. More likely it's become dislodged and disappear into the bottomless fuel tank cavity of doom never to be seen again.

I tried to neaten up the bracket while it was all off. Popping a few rivnuts in and smoothening the edges off. The bracket with the kits fuel pressure regulator won’t fit anywhere useful so I had to chop that about a bit.

Edited by Dixie on Friday 2nd February 18:13

Dixie

Original Poster:

736 posts

251 months

Friday 2nd February 2024
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One last job i did (In the kitchen as the wife was out) was to sort the starter/alternator/power loom out. I needed to remove the old battery connector and then solder the two heavy gauge ends together. Getting the solder to melt into the wire took a bit of doing as I only had a small iron. I might buy a better automotive one seeing as I’ve got quite a bit more to do. Although i have bought some heat shrink solder joints (I dare say a lot more on that to come).

Not the neatest but it's solid.

|https://thumbsnap.com/H6DkeKWw[/url]

Theres two connectors at the end of this part of the loom that need to be connected together. The guide said to crimp new ends on but i think i found an easier solution and just slightly modified the originals. They now both fit into the junction box. The other side will be the power from the Elise loom.

Again, PLEASE shout up if I’m going wrong anywhere. I did have some issues joining a white and a black wire together that will ultimately be joined to a red wire.

All wrapped up ready to go back on the car.

|https://thumbsnap.com/zR3CtMtd[/url][url]

|https://thumbsnap.com/7Asj4Xqb[/url]

Next job is to get the engine off the stand. Fit the new clutch and gearbox and drop it into the chassis!! Feels like a bit of a milestone.[url][url]

Gibby78

154 posts

201 months

Friday 2nd February 2024
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Alright Matt, I'd seen all the K parts listed for sale and wondered if we'd get a build thread, next track day I'll bring the duster and give you a run for your money 😂

Looking great and will give Mel no chance on the straights now.

Dixie

Original Poster:

736 posts

251 months

Monday 5th February 2024
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Gibby78 said:
Alright Matt, I'd seen all the K parts listed for sale and wondered if we'd get a build thread, next track day I'll bring the duster and give you a run for your money ??

Looking great and will give Mel no chance on the straights now.
Hi Steve. You should 100% come along to the next Blyton day in March. It's not even that far away from you. Realistically I think I’ll only be there as a spectator but I might be able to get it on track for a few shakedown laps.

You could probably sneak the Duster on as well! smile