How much does it bother you that a car fakes character?
Discussion
Over the last few years I've watched reviews and listened to podcasts about new cars and discovering more and more that cars get a lot of their characteristics engineered in to them now. Knowing this, does it spoil the experience for you?
Examples:
The exhaust fart or blip on on shifting.
The gear change thud, for example the McLaren 600LT transmission will give you a thud in sport mode but takes it away in track mode.
My XJR (and many other Jag products) has a pipe which allows engine noise in to the cabin above a certain RPM. They call it a 'Symposer' if you wanted to look it up.
BMW started it all by having sound pump through the speakers.
Then on the latest Behind The Glass podcast, you've got brake by wire on the SF90 and they said it was synthesising brake feel.
You've also got electric steering racks where the steering weight can be changed depending on how you like it.
Do these things take away the experience of the car or add to it?
Examples:
The exhaust fart or blip on on shifting.
The gear change thud, for example the McLaren 600LT transmission will give you a thud in sport mode but takes it away in track mode.
My XJR (and many other Jag products) has a pipe which allows engine noise in to the cabin above a certain RPM. They call it a 'Symposer' if you wanted to look it up.
BMW started it all by having sound pump through the speakers.
Then on the latest Behind The Glass podcast, you've got brake by wire on the SF90 and they said it was synthesising brake feel.
You've also got electric steering racks where the steering weight can be changed depending on how you like it.
Do these things take away the experience of the car or add to it?
That's not faking character, a car has character or it doesn't, and character is a human construct. Hence we have forty tear old Volvo estates, knackered brogues, patinated chesterfields and battered sheepskin flying jackets that drip in character. Its not manufactured, its where they've been, the memories they've made, who has sat in them, when and where, the discussions, the memories, all bring an imagined creation of a better lived and loved past, and all are bestowed character. For me, an inanimate object doesn't have character until its owned, used and experienced. Those who mistake noise, aesthetic appeal for an unexperiemced 'character' understand the concept in a different way than I do, and that's cool. For me, the noise, the 'feel' etc can contribute to the utility but neither are as essential as the holistic, inmersive experience of time itself.
They can add to it, giving you a fairly relaxed sporty car in normal mode and one that’s more aggressive in sport mode.
Depending on how you want to drive you can switch between them.
Best are the custom drive modes where you can have the sport steering for a bit more stability but normal gear shifts.
Several recent VWs I’ve driven have unnecessarily banged the gears when changing in sport mode. There’s no reason apart from giving the impression of being sporty.
The blips on downshifts are ok though. Rather than waiting until the revs drop low, it will downshift early with a blip for the higher rpm in the lower gear.
Depending on how you want to drive you can switch between them.
Best are the custom drive modes where you can have the sport steering for a bit more stability but normal gear shifts.
Several recent VWs I’ve driven have unnecessarily banged the gears when changing in sport mode. There’s no reason apart from giving the impression of being sporty.
The blips on downshifts are ok though. Rather than waiting until the revs drop low, it will downshift early with a blip for the higher rpm in the lower gear.
A car that puts fake engine or exhaust sounds through speakers is a no go for me. Its creating something that is not there. I hate that and would potentially avoid buying a car if I knew it did that.
It reminds me of clocks that take batteries but still have a pendulum. I like a pure car and pure driving experience. That is part of the reason why I enjoyed TVRs as there was no pretending. No doubt someone will be a long to prove otherwise.
It is probably quite difficult to know what fakery goes on in New cars unless the manufacturer is upfront about it.
Just to add....I hate fake exhausts too. Its like the car us trying to hard to pretend to have something it doesn't. I feel that manufacturers are conning customers.
It reminds me of clocks that take batteries but still have a pendulum. I like a pure car and pure driving experience. That is part of the reason why I enjoyed TVRs as there was no pretending. No doubt someone will be a long to prove otherwise.
It is probably quite difficult to know what fakery goes on in New cars unless the manufacturer is upfront about it.
Just to add....I hate fake exhausts too. Its like the car us trying to hard to pretend to have something it doesn't. I feel that manufacturers are conning customers.
AlexNJ89 said:
Over the last few years I've watched reviews and listened to podcasts about new cars and discovering more and more that cars get a lot of their characteristics engineered in to them now. Knowing this, does it spoil the experience for you?
The thing is, a car's characteristics are always 'engineered'. Engineers spend time on the steering response and feel, the brakes, the throttle response and sound in order to make it as close as possible to their ideal driving experience. A small hatchback will have light steering to appeal to one type of buyer, a sports car will have more weight and feel to appeal to another. Aston Martin have long spent time trying to get the best possible sound from their engines, while not compromising power, emissions and economy. Toyota worked not just with Yamaha's engine division but also their musical instruments department on the LFA. These things don't 'just happen', and a big part of what e.g. Porsche is so often praised for is the consistency of feel and response achieved in their cars' controls.If you drove a car with entirely 'un-engineered' sound, control feel and response you wouldn't like it.
Today the experience is increasingly mediated by electronics, either modulating the signal as with adaptive dampers or outright transforming it to digital and back to analogue, such as with a drive-by-wire throttle pedal. This gives extra flexibility which allows for eg a quiet exhaust for leaving home at 5am and a louder one for enjoying on a deserted B-road, etc. I don't have a problem with increasing cars 'bandwidth' in this way, if anything it allows you to 'have your cake and eat it' by having a more fun car that also works for day-to-day and long distance use.
Where a signal is entirely controlled electronically you can of course do more or less authentic things with it. I used to draw the line at 'fake sound', but now I don't think it really matters where the 'character' (or perhaps 'characteristics') comes from, as long as they are consistent and coherent. Note that there are also entirely 'mechanical' cars which are massively inconsistent, e.g. steering that's light and eager off-centre only to abruptly load up as you reach a quarter-turn of lock.
So no, it doesn't bother me any more, as long as the overall experience hangs together and doesn't feel disjointed.
It’s because people want it all in one car these days, they want the quiet relaxing daily and the firm loud sports car.
I get it but I’d be happy without it all. Just give me a car as it comes, get to a nice road and it’s ready I don’t have press loads of buttons and settings, suspension settings, steering weight settings, then gearbox settings, then exhaust loudness settings etc just to much imo.
I get it but I’d be happy without it all. Just give me a car as it comes, get to a nice road and it’s ready I don’t have press loads of buttons and settings, suspension settings, steering weight settings, then gearbox settings, then exhaust loudness settings etc just to much imo.
swisstoni said:
If I had a car that faked things, I’d turn them off. You need to enjoy a thing for what it is.
I’ve got some nice sounding ice but also an EV.
I like how the EV makes an eerie woo noise at low speed. It puts a silly grin on my face. I don’t want it to sound like a V8.
I enjoy that sound in my EV too. Straight out of a Sci Fi movie. I’ve got some nice sounding ice but also an EV.
I like how the EV makes an eerie woo noise at low speed. It puts a silly grin on my face. I don’t want it to sound like a V8.
It has the added advantage as being relatively high frequency, easily attenuated.
I have no interest in artificial sounds and would never buy some sort of aftermarket exhaust for instance.
I have some cars that I have had from new -an SL 500 I bought in 2003,a Smart ForTwo from 2004 and 997 GT3RS I got in 2007.. They are like good old friends from simpler times and driving them brings back memories
I think age has added character.
Are they better than my current cars? Not really,just different, no electronics or Nannies. My modern cars all have electric steering for instance , but it has gotten so good that I cannot fault it. Of course there is the endless discussion about paddle shifts and the like but I am just fine with it, the inexplicable launch control nonsense has not been used once on the cars that have it. I did try it at a demo day in a manufacturer’s car and wondered when on earth I would ever use it.
The world moves on as it should, but I prefer my old SL to the porky new one and a backroad drive in my simple old manual RS remains an undiminished pleasure.
I have some cars that I have had from new -an SL 500 I bought in 2003,a Smart ForTwo from 2004 and 997 GT3RS I got in 2007.. They are like good old friends from simpler times and driving them brings back memories
I think age has added character.
Are they better than my current cars? Not really,just different, no electronics or Nannies. My modern cars all have electric steering for instance , but it has gotten so good that I cannot fault it. Of course there is the endless discussion about paddle shifts and the like but I am just fine with it, the inexplicable launch control nonsense has not been used once on the cars that have it. I did try it at a demo day in a manufacturer’s car and wondered when on earth I would ever use it.
The world moves on as it should, but I prefer my old SL to the porky new one and a backroad drive in my simple old manual RS remains an undiminished pleasure.
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