Does this country need to look in the mirror sometimes?
Discussion
Was just talking with a friend, we were saying that yes, our government is a bit crap, but even if they were beyond reproach they still only have what they have to work with.
We blame them for everything, a couple of hundred people, yet there are almost 70 million people in this country.
And a lot of them are not contributing to society, if fact they are taking away in some massive ways.
Many are just running their own parallel economies using cash, money laundering and tax evasion to get rich.
We have huge swathes of folk that cant work, a lot are genuine and need supporting but a lot are "swinging the leg".
And I know some will pin it on the government but we all have a stake in things, then like yesterday I went to drop off at the airport and saw a massive load of rubbish and rubble fly tipped in a lay-by, what kind of utter scum bucket does that ?
I am not perfect, not saying that but I get up every morning, go to work, pay taxes, look after my family and try to not demand too much.
How do we get the country to realise everything affects the bottom line and try to act in more positive ways ?
We blame them for everything, a couple of hundred people, yet there are almost 70 million people in this country.
And a lot of them are not contributing to society, if fact they are taking away in some massive ways.
Many are just running their own parallel economies using cash, money laundering and tax evasion to get rich.
We have huge swathes of folk that cant work, a lot are genuine and need supporting but a lot are "swinging the leg".
And I know some will pin it on the government but we all have a stake in things, then like yesterday I went to drop off at the airport and saw a massive load of rubbish and rubble fly tipped in a lay-by, what kind of utter scum bucket does that ?
I am not perfect, not saying that but I get up every morning, go to work, pay taxes, look after my family and try to not demand too much.
How do we get the country to realise everything affects the bottom line and try to act in more positive ways ?
J4CKO said:
How do we get the country to realise everything affects the bottom line and try to act in more positive ways ?
Because there's a sense of tremendous inequality and unfair burden when the poorest are being asked to make changes and the wealthiest are seen to disregard or profit from the circumstances. Take climate change. Something I have complete belief in, but from a global perspective my actions are irrelevant. Instead I approach it from an energy security and local/regional pollution perspective.
Look at the post-Covid debt, but then look at individuals that made huge profits through dodgy deals with buddies in power.
Those that are "on the take" are tiny compared to the complex tax affairs of celebrities, aristocracy and corporations.
And to be fair, governed is 600 odd MPs, it's thousands of government departments and policy makers.
"ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country." - JFK
Unfortunately, before this can be taken seriously by the people of this country the government / house of commons / house of lords and many others who claim that they serve the country need to "lead by example".
For decades now that hasn't been the case - going back as far as the end days of the Major government.
Hypocrisy, lies and sleaze are ever evident!
Unfortunately, before this can be taken seriously by the people of this country the government / house of commons / house of lords and many others who claim that they serve the country need to "lead by example".
For decades now that hasn't been the case - going back as far as the end days of the Major government.
Hypocrisy, lies and sleaze are ever evident!
J4CKO said:
I am not perfect, not saying that but I get up every morning, go to work, pay taxes, look after my family and try to not demand too much.
How do we get the country to realise everything affects the bottom line and try to act in more positive ways ?
I would say most people are like you (I am) we mostly just want to get on with things, its not that we are blind to the issues but there is no room for this in the centre anymore, its the shouty ones either side of it that get the attention and worked into a froth. Its now a case of "If you are not with me you are against me" left or right while they fail to accept that just turns average people away from the issue How do we get the country to realise everything affects the bottom line and try to act in more positive ways ?
As one of the top 1% earners (just) I feel I contribute to society but I feel society or rather the government looks at me with disgust as I am not rich enough to buy them cloths or glasses so instead they look at my income and take a huge chunk tell me to STFU and the provide me with services so poor I feel compelled to further pay for them.
This government and the last Tory goverment hate sucess hate social mobility. They want you to use public transport, not own more than one home, not have private investments etc. How dare you want for more etc.
It is depressing but vast numbers of people are happy with that status quo both those at the very top who are protected and those at the bottom who see you as having more than them.
There is no UK dream unlike an American one
This government and the last Tory goverment hate sucess hate social mobility. They want you to use public transport, not own more than one home, not have private investments etc. How dare you want for more etc.
It is depressing but vast numbers of people are happy with that status quo both those at the very top who are protected and those at the bottom who see you as having more than them.
There is no UK dream unlike an American one
nuyorican said:
Is it any wonder that people feel they have no stake in society? Lack of affordable housing for one. Being consistently ignored over the immigration issue. Even when there’s a ray of hope in the form of Brexit. It’s scuppered and sabotaged out of spite and incompetency.
There’s not much to be said that hasn’t been said before a thousand times. With any luck, Trump will invade. Until then, vote Reform.
The younger generation in the main voted to remain, Brexit took away their freedom not enhanced it.There’s not much to be said that hasn’t been said before a thousand times. With any luck, Trump will invade. Until then, vote Reform.
Reform (and definitely trump) will not ‘fix’ things, theyre selling you something that doesn’t exist.
We’ve been conditioned to punch down and blame our woes on immigrants and benefit claimants instead of looking up and seeing who really are rinsing us.
Problem is is that we defend one with all our might and demonise the other with the same vigour ably stirred on by charlatans dressed up as politicians.
Problem is is that we defend one with all our might and demonise the other with the same vigour ably stirred on by charlatans dressed up as politicians.
I think there is an element of needing to self assess... OTOH what reward is there?
The pound has dropped (mainly due to Brexit) and cost of living has gone up but wages haven't increased to compensate. So is anyone surprised people are asking "what is the point" and not getting a decent answer.
Bosses love going on TV and saying "British people don't want to work" but forgetting to finish that statement with "the long hours we want for the terrible salary we're offering".
I think the whole "British people don't want to work" is nonsense. No one wants to live a subsistence lifestyle... People want to work but they also need to feel rewarded for that work and if they're not getting the reward, what's the point in working, let alone working hard?
The pound has dropped (mainly due to Brexit) and cost of living has gone up but wages haven't increased to compensate. So is anyone surprised people are asking "what is the point" and not getting a decent answer.
Bosses love going on TV and saying "British people don't want to work" but forgetting to finish that statement with "the long hours we want for the terrible salary we're offering".
I think the whole "British people don't want to work" is nonsense. No one wants to live a subsistence lifestyle... People want to work but they also need to feel rewarded for that work and if they're not getting the reward, what's the point in working, let alone working hard?
chrispmartha said:
nuyorican said:
Is it any wonder that people feel they have no stake in society? Lack of affordable housing for one. Being consistently ignored over the immigration issue. Even when there’s a ray of hope in the form of Brexit. It’s scuppered and sabotaged out of spite and incompetency.
There’s not much to be said that hasn’t been said before a thousand times. With any luck, Trump will invade. Until then, vote Reform.
The younger generation in the main voted to remain, Brexit took away their freedom not enhanced it.There’s not much to be said that hasn’t been said before a thousand times. With any luck, Trump will invade. Until then, vote Reform.
Reform (and definitely trump) will not ‘fix’ things, they're selling you something that doesn’t exist.
Some people just want to be given simple soundbite type answers from the likes of Reform and Trump. Stuff that sounds good to them like "We will ban all non-essential immigration" or "We will stop the migrant boats"
The rest of us want the actual details of exactly how those claims will be carried out in practice, what the plan is, and what the potential knock on effects would be, because we know it isn't as simple as just saying that you'll get something done. Many issues are incredibly complex and difficult to solve.
nuyorican said:
Still, it’s a step forward. May as well vote for someone who agrees with you on the big issues rather than one who demonises its own people. The uni-arse-party have had their chance. Even if it turns out that Reform can’t fix things, it’s still a step in the right direction.
Regarding your Brexit point. When you say ‘young people’ I guess you mean students. No surprise there. What about disenfranchised working class young people. If they even voted at all.
Reform - because what we've been doing to wreck the country for the last 15 years, we just haven't been doing it hard enough.
Reform is yet another step in the wrong direction.
nuyorican said:
chrispmartha said:
The younger generation in the main voted to remain, Brexit took away their freedom not enhanced it.
Reform (and definitely trump) will not ‘fix’ things, theyre selling you something that doesn’t exist.
Reform (and definitely trump) will not ‘fix’ things, theyre selling you something that doesn’t exist.
Still, it’s a step forward. May as well vote for someone who agrees with you on the big issues rather than one who demonises its own people. The uni-arse-party have had their chance. Even if it turns out that Reform can’t fix things, it’s still a step in the right direction.
Regarding your Brexit point. When you say ‘young people’ I guess you mean students. No surprise there. What about disenfranchised working class young people. If they even voted at all.
I don’t agree with Reform on the big issues, and I think your trust is misplaced.
Gecko1978 said:
As one of the top 1% earners (just) I feel I contribute to society but I feel society or rather the government looks at me with disgust as I am not rich enough to buy them cloths or glasses so instead they look at my income and take a huge chunk tell me to STFU and the provide me with services so poor I feel compelled to further pay for them.
Beyond obviously paying a sizeable amount of tax (I assume) what is it you feel you contribute to society?That's not a personal dig (I'm sure someone will jump to call me a price, again), honest.
It's more a question of all the things that go around that I.e. are you a big employer, does your employment enrich the UK, is there a big charitable aspect, are you improving circumstances for others etc.
nuyorican said:
Still, it’s a step forward. May as well vote for someone who agrees with you on the big issues rather than one who demonises its own people. The uni-arse-party have had their chance. Even if it turns out that Reform can’t fix things, it’s still a step in the right direction.
Regarding your Brexit point. When you say ‘young people’ I guess you mean students. No surprise there. What about disenfranchised working class young people. If they even voted at all.
nuyorican said:
chrispmartha said:
The younger generation in the main voted to remain, Brexit took away their freedom not enhanced it.
Reform (and definitely trump) will not ‘fix’ things, theyre selling you something that doesn’t exist.
Reform (and definitely trump) will not ‘fix’ things, theyre selling you something that doesn’t exist.
Still, it’s a step forward. May as well vote for someone who agrees with you on the big issues rather than one who demonises its own people. The uni-arse-party have had their chance. Even if it turns out that Reform can’t fix things, it’s still a step in the right direction.
Regarding your Brexit point. When you say ‘young people’ I guess you mean students. No surprise there. What about disenfranchised working class young people. If they even voted at all.
There is the obvious problem of disenfranchisement mentioned above.
But there is another challenge in that we live in a modern society with a huge amount of movement of people, immigration and emigration, a huge variety of cultural backgrounds, languages etc.
There are many benefits to that and my point is not about immigration.
My point is the UK or any equivalent country is just a location these days. A country is a place. It is not a sense of identify or belonging. We have no single sense of identity or unity. IMO of course.
Perhaps the exception is when you live i. A small village and you feel part of the local community but that is not the theme the OP is exploring.
But there is another challenge in that we live in a modern society with a huge amount of movement of people, immigration and emigration, a huge variety of cultural backgrounds, languages etc.
There are many benefits to that and my point is not about immigration.
My point is the UK or any equivalent country is just a location these days. A country is a place. It is not a sense of identify or belonging. We have no single sense of identity or unity. IMO of course.
Perhaps the exception is when you live i. A small village and you feel part of the local community but that is not the theme the OP is exploring.
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