Large Barrel Nuts for connecting timber?

Large Barrel Nuts for connecting timber?

Author
Discussion

Prawo Jazdy

Original Poster:

5,007 posts

229 months

Sunday 8th June
quotequote all
Hello,

Can you get large barrel nuts, like the kind you get in flat pack furniture, but scaled up? Search engines don't seem to be helping, but maybe the forum hive mind knows better.

I'm building a timber frame in our garden. I could use heavy duty timber screws, but for some reason I like the idea of something that could be unfastened and refastened without risking 'drilling' the hole that the screw goes into. I'm also mindful that timber cracks and changes shape, and wonder how much purchase the screws retain when this happens.

Cheers

JoshSm

985 posts

52 months

Sunday 8th June
quotequote all
Yes you can. Just search 'barrel nut' plus the size, like M12 or M16 or whatever.

cliffords

2,541 posts

38 months

Sunday 8th June
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Hunt screwfix

LooneyTunes

8,250 posts

173 months

Monday 9th June
quotequote all
Have a search for threaded inserts: depending on how exactly you plan to build, they might be a better option.

Can definitely get them in larger sizes (bought some a few weeks ago).

Pheo

3,431 posts

217 months

Monday 9th June
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Typically wouldn’t you use coach bolts?

OutInTheShed

11,269 posts

41 months

Monday 9th June
quotequote all
Barrel nut can mean 'sleeve nut' or 'threaded furniture dowel' which are different things, but both are plentiful on ebay.

I 3D printed some M8 sleeve nuts, they seem quite strong, unfortunately I can't put a number to that.

Prawo Jazdy

Original Poster:

5,007 posts

229 months

Yesterday (14:27)
quotequote all
Cheers for the replies. It turns out that the fixings I mean are called cross dowel barrel nuts. The largest diameter I can find is 16mm though, with an M10 thread, so seems a bit small for beefy pieces of timber.

My thinking was that if you could get really large diameter ones, use a router or forstner bit to make a pocket for it, then the radius spreads the load on the surrounding wood, so is less likely to tear out or be affected by cracking/rotting/changing of timber over time compared to a screw. Of course, that method requires removing a lot of wood, which probably weakens everything in the first place. There is no science to this, just thoughts in my head. It's a head that went through an engineering degree, but none of that was learning about timber fastening.

Gareth79

8,309 posts

261 months

Yesterday (17:55)
quotequote all
Pheo said:
Typically wouldn t you use coach bolts?
Yeah, I built a patio roof thing, I just used coach bolts through, then used a flat bit so I could inset the nut slightly, and room for a penny washer to stop it digging it.

Prawo Jazdy

Original Poster:

5,007 posts

229 months

Yesterday (18:03)
quotequote all
When you say “inset the nut”, where is the nut going? I’m assuming you’re connecting beams to posts?

OutInTheShed

11,269 posts

41 months

Yesterday (20:50)
quotequote all
Prawo Jazdy said:
Cheers for the replies. It turns out that the fixings I mean are called cross dowel barrel nuts. The largest diameter I can find is 16mm though, with an M10 thread, so seems a bit small for beefy pieces of timber.

My thinking was that if you could get really large diameter ones, use a router or forstner bit to make a pocket for it, then the radius spreads the load on the surrounding wood, so is less likely to tear out or be affected by cracking/rotting/changing of timber over time compared to a screw. Of course, that method requires removing a lot of wood, which probably weakens everything in the first place. There is no science to this, just thoughts in my head. It's a head that went through an engineering degree, but none of that was learning about timber fastening.
I think you could usefully look at vaguely similar joints and guess how things scale?

For instance, these barrel nut thingamies are used in a pine bedframe we've got.
The barrel nut and screw pulls the joint tight, while a couple of wooden dowels are in shear, taking the actual weight of the persons in the bed.

I'm sure designing this kind of joint to the n'th degree of efficiency is quite hard.
But doing an adequate job, testing it, then adding more fasteners usually works?