Buying property with historic asbestos burial, insurance?
Discussion
I am hoping to purchase an old farm house. The barns on the site where redeveloped 5 years ago and since sold on, but the asbestos roofs were buried in a corner of the land. I would own this contaminated land, on a separate title to the house.
I've spoken to the local council and they investigated in 2021 and 2022 but found no further reason for action. The assumption is that it is buried deep enough, so only poses a risk if it is dug up. I have also contacted HSE but I'm still waiting for a response.
I will get some soil sampling carried out before exchange of contracts just to check that the contamination isn't widespread. The agicultural land is also on a separate title to the house so shouldn't have any mortgage issues.
I know that the council could potentially change their stance and tell the landowner to rectify the problem, which could be very, very expensive. To mitigate this, is it possible to take out indemnity insurance against this? I've struggled to find anything as google just shows indemnity cover for people carrying out the rectification.
Thanks for your help. I know the sensible answer is to walk away but I like a challenge!!
I've spoken to the local council and they investigated in 2021 and 2022 but found no further reason for action. The assumption is that it is buried deep enough, so only poses a risk if it is dug up. I have also contacted HSE but I'm still waiting for a response.
I will get some soil sampling carried out before exchange of contracts just to check that the contamination isn't widespread. The agicultural land is also on a separate title to the house so shouldn't have any mortgage issues.
I know that the council could potentially change their stance and tell the landowner to rectify the problem, which could be very, very expensive. To mitigate this, is it possible to take out indemnity insurance against this? I've struggled to find anything as google just shows indemnity cover for people carrying out the rectification.
Thanks for your help. I know the sensible answer is to walk away but I like a challenge!!
clarkey said:
I am hoping to purchase an old farm house. The barns on the site where redeveloped 5 years ago and since sold on, but the asbestos roofs were buried in a corner of the land. I would own this contaminated land, on a separate title to the house.
I've spoken to the local council and they investigated in 2021 and 2022 but found no further reason for action. The assumption is that it is buried deep enough, so only poses a risk if it is dug up. I have also contacted HSE but I'm still waiting for a response.
I will get some soil sampling carried out before exchange of contracts just to check that the contamination isn't widespread. The agicultural land is also on a separate title to the house so shouldn't have any mortgage issues.
I know that the council could potentially change their stance and tell the landowner to rectify the problem, which could be very, very expensive. To mitigate this, is it possible to take out indemnity insurance against this? I've struggled to find anything as google just shows indemnity cover for people carrying out the rectification.
Thanks for your help. I know the sensible answer is to walk away but I like a challenge!!
This sounds like an opportunity.I've spoken to the local council and they investigated in 2021 and 2022 but found no further reason for action. The assumption is that it is buried deep enough, so only poses a risk if it is dug up. I have also contacted HSE but I'm still waiting for a response.
I will get some soil sampling carried out before exchange of contracts just to check that the contamination isn't widespread. The agicultural land is also on a separate title to the house so shouldn't have any mortgage issues.
I know that the council could potentially change their stance and tell the landowner to rectify the problem, which could be very, very expensive. To mitigate this, is it possible to take out indemnity insurance against this? I've struggled to find anything as google just shows indemnity cover for people carrying out the rectification.
Thanks for your help. I know the sensible answer is to walk away but I like a challenge!!
But WRT an indemnity policy - I doubt it. Our solicitors have always said that they are almost impossible to claim from.
Trying to buy a contingency / indemnification Insurance policy once a potential issue is already known about will be down to specialist underwriters from a specialist insurer to consider but even if they quote ( which I would doubt ) it will be excessively and no doubt prohibitively expensive.
Rodintee said:
It's a shame it's known about. In itself its pretty much completely inert and I assume burial is exactly what the council do with any asbestos received at waste sites. I expect most farms in the UK have done similar in the past.
I agree, as long as i know where it is I'll just fence it off and cover it in wild flowers. It's a pretty obvious hump in a corner, probably 1.5m high and about 10m square, that has been covered in soil and grass has grown over itGoogle “Phytoremediation”
Put simply it is the use of trees plants to remove pollution from soil, there are a few universities with research programmes. It seems to be a proven process.
I only know about it because next to our paddock is a piece of land which many years ago was a brick works and more recently (but still a long time ago) a council depot. Belongs to County Council who want to sell it to a developer despite it being contaminated land…Parish Council want to tun it in to a green space with specific tress planted to aid the phytoremediation proces, they have a University on board to partner with them.
If you found a friendly university to do some research on your land with asbestos removal that might keep the council quiet.
Put simply it is the use of trees plants to remove pollution from soil, there are a few universities with research programmes. It seems to be a proven process.
I only know about it because next to our paddock is a piece of land which many years ago was a brick works and more recently (but still a long time ago) a council depot. Belongs to County Council who want to sell it to a developer despite it being contaminated land…Parish Council want to tun it in to a green space with specific tress planted to aid the phytoremediation proces, they have a University on board to partner with them.
If you found a friendly university to do some research on your land with asbestos removal that might keep the council quiet.
I assume it's concrete roof sheeting, so it's both encased, now very much undisturbed, and inerently low risk. I'd say asbestos under the ground buried on land you can ring-fence and not disturb, is very very low risk.
If the council change tack on this type of asbestos, they'll be exposing themeselves and others to £££ 100's billions in expenditure to clean up all the old school buildings with AIB, and god knows how many other public buildings with inert and low risk asbestos all over the shop.
As long as there are no flood or overland flow risks that might wash the soil off and expose it all etc, then my gut says fine.
Anecdotally, I was speaking to an asbestos guy the other day. He'd run a clean up business for 30yrs.
He told me of a job where they'd done AIB, vacuum tent setup, bagged it all up, drove off into the middle of a big waste site.
A big caterpillar scraped a long hole about 1m deep.
They unloaded it all in the bags into the hole, while still wearing PPE. Also the HSE guy was there ticking boxes.
The bags were proud of the hole.
The caterpillar then drives over it all to mush it into the floor, and all the bags start popping and exploding and plumes of powder coming out. He apparently turned to the HSE guy and he said that's acceptable
So they have rules for clear up, handling etc. Then they have the 'tip' rules, which are pretty much don't give a crap, it's gonna be buried for hundreds of years, no one around. Already a pretty grotty dangerous and toxic environment, so who cares?
In a sense, as long as you know about it, it can be worked around. Better to know than not know.
If you're really bothered you could go dig it up and take it to the tip yourself. It's private land and you're a private individual. It's just encased asbestos sheets so low risk, so you can do that.
Just a side note, I grew up on a farm and farmers do bury things. There is every chance other stuff was buried at the time... just so you know to look out for random old 6" rusty nails, old petrol drums, dead animals, blah blah.
You might find something even worse to have to deal with. Ie, an old oil drum leaking into the water course! I've seen the remediation for that on old petrol station redevelopments...!
Finally, I'm rather surprised that that was done just five years ago. I assume there are rules around that?
Either way definitely assume the worst, and work forward from there to a point where you're confident what you're buying!
The last thing you want to be doing is buying land with excessive liabilities, but thinking it's a gift!
If the council change tack on this type of asbestos, they'll be exposing themeselves and others to £££ 100's billions in expenditure to clean up all the old school buildings with AIB, and god knows how many other public buildings with inert and low risk asbestos all over the shop.
As long as there are no flood or overland flow risks that might wash the soil off and expose it all etc, then my gut says fine.
Anecdotally, I was speaking to an asbestos guy the other day. He'd run a clean up business for 30yrs.
He told me of a job where they'd done AIB, vacuum tent setup, bagged it all up, drove off into the middle of a big waste site.
A big caterpillar scraped a long hole about 1m deep.
They unloaded it all in the bags into the hole, while still wearing PPE. Also the HSE guy was there ticking boxes.
The bags were proud of the hole.
The caterpillar then drives over it all to mush it into the floor, and all the bags start popping and exploding and plumes of powder coming out. He apparently turned to the HSE guy and he said that's acceptable
So they have rules for clear up, handling etc. Then they have the 'tip' rules, which are pretty much don't give a crap, it's gonna be buried for hundreds of years, no one around. Already a pretty grotty dangerous and toxic environment, so who cares?
In a sense, as long as you know about it, it can be worked around. Better to know than not know.
If you're really bothered you could go dig it up and take it to the tip yourself. It's private land and you're a private individual. It's just encased asbestos sheets so low risk, so you can do that.
Just a side note, I grew up on a farm and farmers do bury things. There is every chance other stuff was buried at the time... just so you know to look out for random old 6" rusty nails, old petrol drums, dead animals, blah blah.
You might find something even worse to have to deal with. Ie, an old oil drum leaking into the water course! I've seen the remediation for that on old petrol station redevelopments...!
Finally, I'm rather surprised that that was done just five years ago. I assume there are rules around that?
Either way definitely assume the worst, and work forward from there to a point where you're confident what you're buying!
The last thing you want to be doing is buying land with excessive liabilities, but thinking it's a gift!
Edited by Mr Whippy on Friday 20th June 09:18
Hi. I work in asbestos. As previous poster has inferred large pile of asbestos cement sheeting is basically fine. Inert, low risk and buried. The council won’t come after you for it if it remains that way. They have their own asbestos to deal with. Recently did a job where scum bags had fly tipped a load at the side of a country road and drove off with the tippy bit up. Had to close the road for a week. Four guys with full ppe/rpe and industrial vacs working their way up the road clearing every visible particle. But with was high risk material in high risk area. Cost about 30k to sort out. Plant some wild flowers as you suggest and don’t worry about it.
We looked at a house which was unfinished, one of its issues was contaminated land.
Mining in W Devon basically, so could be arsenic and godnose.
The planning permission AIUI had a scheme approved to cover the contaminated land with essentially a layer of plastic and then a mix of paving and clean soil.
So if it's a small-ish area, sorting it might not be all that onerous?
As mentioned up thread, farms can have all sorts of stuff buried, ranging from old machinery to foot and mouth casualties.
On the positive side, planning wise, does it count as a 'brown field site'?
Mining in W Devon basically, so could be arsenic and godnose.
The planning permission AIUI had a scheme approved to cover the contaminated land with essentially a layer of plastic and then a mix of paving and clean soil.
So if it's a small-ish area, sorting it might not be all that onerous?
As mentioned up thread, farms can have all sorts of stuff buried, ranging from old machinery to foot and mouth casualties.
On the positive side, planning wise, does it count as a 'brown field site'?
Cheib said:
Google Phytoremediation
Put simply it is the use of trees plants to remove pollution from soil, there are a few universities with research programmes. It seems to be a proven process.
I only know about it because next to our paddock is a piece of land which many years ago was a brick works and more recently (but still a long time ago) a council depot. Belongs to County Council who want to sell it to a developer despite it being contaminated land Parish Council want to tun it in to a green space with specific tress planted to aid the phytoremediation proces, they have a University on board to partner with them.
If you found a friendly university to do some research on your land with asbestos removal that might keep the council quiet.
Plants are not going to remove asbestos roof sheeting. Put simply it is the use of trees plants to remove pollution from soil, there are a few universities with research programmes. It seems to be a proven process.
I only know about it because next to our paddock is a piece of land which many years ago was a brick works and more recently (but still a long time ago) a council depot. Belongs to County Council who want to sell it to a developer despite it being contaminated land Parish Council want to tun it in to a green space with specific tress planted to aid the phytoremediation proces, they have a University on board to partner with them.
If you found a friendly university to do some research on your land with asbestos removal that might keep the council quiet.
hidetheelephants said:
Why would anyone do that? Understandable 40 years ago, but now? The stuff's a blight and it doesn't go away.
Because cheap.Not far from us is an ex-military airbase. When it was decommissioned, the MOD had to dig up and removed "something" that they had buried there a while previously that wasn't very nice.
John D. said:
Cheib said:
Google Phytoremediation
Put simply it is the use of trees plants to remove pollution from soil, there are a few universities with research programmes. It seems to be a proven process.
I only know about it because next to our paddock is a piece of land which many years ago was a brick works and more recently (but still a long time ago) a council depot. Belongs to County Council who want to sell it to a developer despite it being contaminated land Parish Council want to tun it in to a green space with specific tress planted to aid the phytoremediation proces, they have a University on board to partner with them.
If you found a friendly university to do some research on your land with asbestos removal that might keep the council quiet.
Plants are not going to remove asbestos roof sheeting. Put simply it is the use of trees plants to remove pollution from soil, there are a few universities with research programmes. It seems to be a proven process.
I only know about it because next to our paddock is a piece of land which many years ago was a brick works and more recently (but still a long time ago) a council depot. Belongs to County Council who want to sell it to a developer despite it being contaminated land Parish Council want to tun it in to a green space with specific tress planted to aid the phytoremediation proces, they have a University on board to partner with them.
If you found a friendly university to do some research on your land with asbestos removal that might keep the council quiet.
Furbo said:
hidetheelephants said:
Why would anyone do that? Understandable 40 years ago, but now? The stuff's a blight and it doesn't go away.
Because cheap.Not far from us is an ex-military airbase. When it was decommissioned, the MOD had to dig up and removed "something" that they had buried there a while previously that wasn't very nice.
hidetheelephants said:
Furbo said:
hidetheelephants said:
Why would anyone do that? Understandable 40 years ago, but now? The stuff's a blight and it doesn't go away.
Because cheap.Not far from us is an ex-military airbase. When it was decommissioned, the MOD had to dig up and removed "something" that they had buried there a while previously that wasn't very nice.
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