MOT fail / pass
Discussion
Well another year, another MOT.
Fed up with conversations with the likes of F1 and Halfords, I decided on recommendation to take it a local independent.
6'3" stout garage helper shoehorned himself into the car, then could not get reverse, peeled himself out got the owner move move the car.
First 3 seconds I heard them say any brake lights (nope came the answer), great I thought there goes a failure.
I was right enough on that score.
I thought well perhaps I had the switch adjusted incorrectly, after a servo swap, perhaps my bad, although I remember checking them against the garage door after the servo change.
The guy doing the MOT (said garage owner) said that the pedals are tightly grouped, makes me wonder if the size 9 toetectors knocked the wire off the switch, as that was the issue.
Anyhow new set of advisory's apart from the obligatory rear wheel bearing play that has been discussed before in years past (the movement is in the UJ).
Top rubber bushes at the front beginning to wear supposedly.
He was not keen on the fact that the driveshafts have nylock nuts but the stud is short, and the same for the bulkhead steering plate.
A bit wet underneath, show me a Rover that isn't, I do know that my electric PS has sprung a leak. All this are the 6 months off the road stuff (winter).
Still it took all of 5 mins to reconnect the disconnected wire, the next day retest (well me pushing the brake pedal in the yard), resulted in a pass, that's another year I suppose.
Bit a spinout is on the cards, before summer goes with a bang
Roll on 40 years, can't come quick enough
Fed up with conversations with the likes of F1 and Halfords, I decided on recommendation to take it a local independent.
6'3" stout garage helper shoehorned himself into the car, then could not get reverse, peeled himself out got the owner move move the car.
First 3 seconds I heard them say any brake lights (nope came the answer), great I thought there goes a failure.
I was right enough on that score.
I thought well perhaps I had the switch adjusted incorrectly, after a servo swap, perhaps my bad, although I remember checking them against the garage door after the servo change.
The guy doing the MOT (said garage owner) said that the pedals are tightly grouped, makes me wonder if the size 9 toetectors knocked the wire off the switch, as that was the issue.
Anyhow new set of advisory's apart from the obligatory rear wheel bearing play that has been discussed before in years past (the movement is in the UJ).
Top rubber bushes at the front beginning to wear supposedly.
He was not keen on the fact that the driveshafts have nylock nuts but the stud is short, and the same for the bulkhead steering plate.
A bit wet underneath, show me a Rover that isn't, I do know that my electric PS has sprung a leak. All this are the 6 months off the road stuff (winter).
Still it took all of 5 mins to reconnect the disconnected wire, the next day retest (well me pushing the brake pedal in the yard), resulted in a pass, that's another year I suppose.
Bit a spinout is on the cards, before summer goes with a bang
Roll on 40 years, can't come quick enough
Stuck in a hot sweaty hotel room in Salisbury at the moment, looking forward to getting back to the grey frozen north tomorrow... in fact if I'm still awake at 0100 I may just get dressed and drive home...
That aside, good news Ray, shame they had to let Lurch loose on it first though.
Mine has exactly the same 'wheel bearing play' that isn't: my previous tester understood such things
- 'that stupid Jag setup', he used to grumble. Sadly, he died from a stroke just before last xmas so I will have to do the dance with a guy probably a quarter his age who only knows FWD cars (and nothing about taper rollers up front). If it was the wheel bearing, it would clonk forwards/backwards as well as up/down of course.
Years ago someone (on here I think?) discovered (or decided) after replacing the rear bearings a couple of times that the fabricated housing was out of round, so by the time you'd pressed the outer race in it was distorting and creating play. Maybe he was right. Usually when I have a feel around underneath (ooer missus) I can never detect any play in the UJ...
The other isue I usually find is the wet knicker elastic acting as a handbrake cable. Pre-test I get in there and wind the cable nuts up a few more threads, so the mechanicals stand a slim chance of pressing two 50p-piece sized bits of friction material against a disc that's being turned with enough force to rip said friction material off (I have had it happen). I even welded an extension on the bottom of the handbrake lever that gives me more travel per ratchet click and it's still knocking on the targa before the magic 13% or whatever it is, is reached.
I don't think it's the cable stretching, I think it's the caliper arms deforming from the stresses. As an aside, DeLorean used the same setup but it was mounted outboard. And sometimes it works
Emissions... ah, now there's a thing. It's alright for you 350i owners with your perfect fuelling (snigger) but the 390 has (or appears to have) a syphon tube linking the tanks to the exhaust ports, with a dribble going into the cylinders for motion. Every year I turn the rail pressure down, the idle speed up and keep everything crossed behind my back. Or at least I did: whether the 'new' tester will be so... what's the word... creative... with the sample pipe remains to be seen. I think the saving grace is that the fumes in an enclosed space are so bad that people are grumbling 'turn it off' in short order. So I do
That aside, good news Ray, shame they had to let Lurch loose on it first though.
Mine has exactly the same 'wheel bearing play' that isn't: my previous tester understood such things
- 'that stupid Jag setup', he used to grumble. Sadly, he died from a stroke just before last xmas so I will have to do the dance with a guy probably a quarter his age who only knows FWD cars (and nothing about taper rollers up front). If it was the wheel bearing, it would clonk forwards/backwards as well as up/down of course.Years ago someone (on here I think?) discovered (or decided) after replacing the rear bearings a couple of times that the fabricated housing was out of round, so by the time you'd pressed the outer race in it was distorting and creating play. Maybe he was right. Usually when I have a feel around underneath (ooer missus) I can never detect any play in the UJ...
The other isue I usually find is the wet knicker elastic acting as a handbrake cable. Pre-test I get in there and wind the cable nuts up a few more threads, so the mechanicals stand a slim chance of pressing two 50p-piece sized bits of friction material against a disc that's being turned with enough force to rip said friction material off (I have had it happen). I even welded an extension on the bottom of the handbrake lever that gives me more travel per ratchet click and it's still knocking on the targa before the magic 13% or whatever it is, is reached.
I don't think it's the cable stretching, I think it's the caliper arms deforming from the stresses. As an aside, DeLorean used the same setup but it was mounted outboard. And sometimes it works
Emissions... ah, now there's a thing. It's alright for you 350i owners with your perfect fuelling (snigger) but the 390 has (or appears to have) a syphon tube linking the tanks to the exhaust ports, with a dribble going into the cylinders for motion. Every year I turn the rail pressure down, the idle speed up and keep everything crossed behind my back. Or at least I did: whether the 'new' tester will be so... what's the word... creative... with the sample pipe remains to be seen. I think the saving grace is that the fumes in an enclosed space are so bad that people are grumbling 'turn it off' in short order. So I do
Ian, ditto all of your post, but my local MOT man is old school so understands the rear wheel UJ issue. I also crank the handbrake up, pre test, then slacken it back afterwards. Re emissions, my old 350i sailed through but as you say my old 390SE struggled. MOT man used to wind the tick over up, adjusted the AFM bypass screw for the test, then put everything back as was, post MOT. Very accommodating of him! Strangely my SEAC has no problems passing emissions.
This is getting more than a bit annoying with older low volume cars, however I thought that rule has been in place for ages.
If the wheels are OE fit and spacers are not in use, the wheel arches are not adjusted, then they will need to accept that the car was "Type" approved? as is ,at the point of manufacture.
So what are the options....doesn't matter just drill a few holes in the bodywork, or attach with double sided tape and hope that the removal does not also create issues, different offset wheels, should they be pedantic.
If the wheels are OE fit and spacers are not in use, the wheel arches are not adjusted, then they will need to accept that the car was "Type" approved? as is ,at the point of manufacture.
So what are the options....doesn't matter just drill a few holes in the bodywork, or attach with double sided tape and hope that the removal does not also create issues, different offset wheels, should they be pedantic.
Bizarrely, mine passed both the handbrake yanking and the exhaust sniffing!
However the tester spent ages under it (while making me stay in reception, where the previous tester (actually his late brother) used to let me join him for the whole test), even had a crowbar and an assistant with a lamp. When he eventually allowed me under the car he said he was looking for a noise that occurred when jacking the car up or down, but nothing seemed to be amiss with the undercarriage.
"Like this?", I asked, pulling down on the chassis rails.
Creeeeak.
"Yeah, that's it!", he said.
"Probably just the bodyshell flexing then", I said, "It's always done it."
"Ah OK then, that must be it. Just thought I was missing something loose..."
I had actually backed off the fuel pressure a bit and it came in at a shade over 2% CO and HC at a few hundred ppm, not too shabby. In the days when I still had a Gunsons CO meter (before some fellow TVR owner borrowed it and never returned it
) I used to tweak and twiddle it before the test and could get it down to about 0.5% CO but it ran like a bag of spanners. The engine's only done 25k since a full rebore, crank grind etc. so there shouldn't be any cylinder issues.
However the tester spent ages under it (while making me stay in reception, where the previous tester (actually his late brother) used to let me join him for the whole test), even had a crowbar and an assistant with a lamp. When he eventually allowed me under the car he said he was looking for a noise that occurred when jacking the car up or down, but nothing seemed to be amiss with the undercarriage.
"Like this?", I asked, pulling down on the chassis rails.
Creeeeak.
"Yeah, that's it!", he said.
"Probably just the bodyshell flexing then", I said, "It's always done it."
"Ah OK then, that must be it. Just thought I was missing something loose..."
I had actually backed off the fuel pressure a bit and it came in at a shade over 2% CO and HC at a few hundred ppm, not too shabby. In the days when I still had a Gunsons CO meter (before some fellow TVR owner borrowed it and never returned it
) I used to tweak and twiddle it before the test and could get it down to about 0.5% CO but it ran like a bag of spanners. The engine's only done 25k since a full rebore, crank grind etc. so there shouldn't be any cylinder issues. Edited by Wedg1e on Tuesday 15th July 13:28
sixor8 said:
If it's the 1987 one in your profile, you've only go to suffer one more, exempt in 2027. 
A mate has several exempt cars and has jumped through the various hoops a few times.The MOT exemption rules say 'built or registered 40 years ago' but the car tax exemption rules say 'more than 40 years before the 1st of January'.
The 390 was first registered September 87 so to drive it in the summer of '27 I'd need to MOT it twice more (July 26 and July 27) which would see it into 28, when it would then be tax-free as well (assuming no legislation change).
It doesn't go out in winter so not much inconvenience really
The articles I read state that MoT exemption is not inherent on a car being a VHI and therefore rated at £0 for VED. As soon as it is 40, it is MoT exempt (if not heavily modified).
https://www.v8register.net/articles/190210-MOT-Exe...
It may be awkward arguing your case if caught with no MoT, so it's probably safer to have a valid MoT until it is after April 1st the year AFTER it is 40. You can still have one voluntarily.
https://www.v8register.net/articles/190210-MOT-Exe...
It may be awkward arguing your case if caught with no MoT, so it's probably safer to have a valid MoT until it is after April 1st the year AFTER it is 40. You can still have one voluntarily.
John042 said:
My 420 SE's rear wheels are a little proud of the wheel arches. MOT man not happy. Apparently if looking down vertically you shouldn't be able to see the tyre tread!!! Advice from another tester was to temporary fit wheel arch extentions for the test?
I believe tyres not covered by the arches are a constructions & use fail, but not an MOT fail. Wedg1e said:
Yeah, I meant to say that one point my mate made (having re-imported over a dozen DeLoreans) was related to the 1st April of year following the 40th, although I can't see any reference to it in the document you linked and I forget what he told me now 
That was guidance form a website, not official, here's the govt's say:https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles
It changes every 12 months, of course, at the moment....
& sixor8 you beat me too it...
I am not 100% sure that the article is giving sound advice, the rules are written in a confusing manner.
Just my ten penneth ..... I see 2 options registered date or build date, most will have the registered date as per the registration document.
However what is the difference between the build date (car off the production line) and the registered date, how long had it potentially sat in a showroom before being sold and registered?
This could make a difference, the dates that the vehicle falls within could help, if you can prove a manufactured date this may help tip the balance in favour. In our cases this could prove to be a hurdle too far (who holds all the manufacturing records, even if they do exist?).
I have tried to find information on my car in the past, it just seems to exist, well only as far as the DVLA part anyway.
Failure to get it right could lead to an expensive mistake and points on the licence. I would air caution, until the V5C has the words "Historic" written within it.
I am not 100% sure that the article is giving sound advice, the rules are written in a confusing manner.
Just my ten penneth ..... I see 2 options registered date or build date, most will have the registered date as per the registration document.
However what is the difference between the build date (car off the production line) and the registered date, how long had it potentially sat in a showroom before being sold and registered?
This could make a difference, the dates that the vehicle falls within could help, if you can prove a manufactured date this may help tip the balance in favour. In our cases this could prove to be a hurdle too far (who holds all the manufacturing records, even if they do exist?).
I have tried to find information on my car in the past, it just seems to exist, well only as far as the DVLA part anyway.
Failure to get it right could lead to an expensive mistake and points on the licence. I would air caution, until the V5C has the words "Historic" written within it.
That was part of the trouble my mate had with the DMC12s... most of the build records were destroyed in an arson attack at the factory.
Officially production ended in '81 I think, but then was restarted to use the last parts so some cars were built in '82... but as they were all exported you have to satisfy the DVLA of build year, not first (UK) registration. Of course they're all well over 40 now but it did cause him some grief for a couple of years.
I'm just working on the premise that it'll be 2028 before mine qualifies. Lots could happen before then...
Officially production ended in '81 I think, but then was restarted to use the last parts so some cars were built in '82... but as they were all exported you have to satisfy the DVLA of build year, not first (UK) registration. Of course they're all well over 40 now but it did cause him some grief for a couple of years.
I'm just working on the premise that it'll be 2028 before mine qualifies. Lots could happen before then...
Look at the V112 form. It's a self-declaration. Primarily for a UK first registered car, they will look at the date of 1st registration on the V5C.
For a car that was first used and registered abroad, and then imported into the UK at some point, they will look at the date of manufacturing, which is usually on the V5C.
If you want to convince the DVLA that your UK first registered car is older than it's first registration date, and thus should be treated as exempt (I know of one Escort RS1600i that was built in 1982, but not registered until 1985 for example), then you will have to provide the evidence. The VIN number is the best evidence. The 10th digit identifies the year of manufacture.
If you have some other evidence from the manufacturer, or an owners club who has the build records, or even a bill of sale from a dealer, showing, for example, that you bought the car in 1980, but didn't register it until last year, then the DVLA are likely to accept that kind of proof.
For a car that was first used and registered abroad, and then imported into the UK at some point, they will look at the date of manufacturing, which is usually on the V5C.
If you want to convince the DVLA that your UK first registered car is older than it's first registration date, and thus should be treated as exempt (I know of one Escort RS1600i that was built in 1982, but not registered until 1985 for example), then you will have to provide the evidence. The VIN number is the best evidence. The 10th digit identifies the year of manufacture.
If you have some other evidence from the manufacturer, or an owners club who has the build records, or even a bill of sale from a dealer, showing, for example, that you bought the car in 1980, but didn't register it until last year, then the DVLA are likely to accept that kind of proof.
John042 said:
My 420 SE's rear wheels are a little proud of the wheel arches. MOT man not happy. Apparently if looking down vertically you shouldn't be able to see the tyre tread!!! Advice from another tester was to temporary fit wheel arch extentions for the test?
Hi John,how little is a little proud? If you can clearly see the tread looking from above then it must be sticking out fairly obviously and the MOT man would be right to be unhappy. The idea being it would be a danger to pedestrians if the wheels/tyres stick out too far. A bit like if the side of your front wing on a steel bodied car had had a bash and was deformed and the jagged metal was sticking out a bit then that too could damage a pedestrian's leg brushing past even at low speed.
Maybe a previous owner has fitted wider tyres (or wheels) than original spec? But if the tyres aren't fouling the wheel arch when they hit a bump then they can't be too proud so I expect a different tester would likely give it a pass.
I can't believe even TVR would let a car leave the factory in that state.....er, oh hang on a minute!
BlueWedgy said:
& sixor8 you beat me too it...
I am not 100% sure that the article is giving sound advice, the rules are written in a confusing manner.
Just my ten penneth ..... I see 2 options registered date or build date, most will have the registered date as per the registration document.
However what is the difference between the build date (car off the production line) and the registered date, how long had it potentially sat in a showroom before being sold and registered?
This could make a difference, the dates that the vehicle falls within could help, if you can prove a manufactured date this may help tip the balance in favour. In our cases this could prove to be a hurdle too far (who holds all the manufacturing records, even if they do exist?).
I have tried to find information on my car in the past, it just seems to exist, well only as far as the DVLA part anyway.
Failure to get it right could lead to an expensive mistake and points on the licence. I would air caution, until the V5C has the words "Historic" written within it.
TVR Car Club hold all the records for all the cars re. build date and dealer delivery date. Contact the registrar at TVRCC and he will supply a certificate for you to send to the DVLA. - (for a small fee).I am not 100% sure that the article is giving sound advice, the rules are written in a confusing manner.
Just my ten penneth ..... I see 2 options registered date or build date, most will have the registered date as per the registration document.
However what is the difference between the build date (car off the production line) and the registered date, how long had it potentially sat in a showroom before being sold and registered?
This could make a difference, the dates that the vehicle falls within could help, if you can prove a manufactured date this may help tip the balance in favour. In our cases this could prove to be a hurdle too far (who holds all the manufacturing records, even if they do exist?).
I have tried to find information on my car in the past, it just seems to exist, well only as far as the DVLA part anyway.
Failure to get it right could lead to an expensive mistake and points on the licence. I would air caution, until the V5C has the words "Historic" written within it.
I did it myself last year. Mine was originally bought by the dealer and was sat in the showroom for ages.
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