Sale of 50 year old house - buyer asking for PP

[-Cappo-]

My deceased FiL's house is currently being sold. Offer was accepted some time ago, the buyer seems keen and has re-visited more than once, and everyone was expecting exchange to take place imminently.

Out of the blue, the buyer's solicitor is asking for proof of planning permission. The house was built in 1975 (not by the FiL), along with three others, which were built the same or following year, in a small private road. It hasn't been modified or extended or anything else since it was built; the only change which was made, during planning in 1975 and before it was built, was that a planned integral garage was turned into a room, and a separate garage built.

Unless the house is new, or nearly new, I can't understand why anyone would want proof of PP. I certainly couldn't provide that for my own house. It would have been the developer (long since deceased) who gained the PP anyway, not the homeowner. To the best of anyone's knowledge, there has never been an approach or query from the LA regarding this. The FiL bought it from the developer and the family lived in it from then until recently; no other owners.

In my cynical mind, I'm fully expecting this to be followed shortly by a suggestion that the solicitor rinses the estate for an "indemnity policy". Can anyone think of any other reason why this might be asked for on a house of this age?

[PhilboSE]

Just seems to be a thing these days.

For a house of that age I think I d reply along the lines that PP is public record and the buyer can satisfy themselves, however it s beyond any enforcement period so there is no risk.

If the garage conversion and bios required PP I would provide that, if you have it. I m prepared to be helpful for things during my ownership, for matters which are timed out or can be estopped then they can do their own legwork. I wouldn t be paying for an indemnity policy either.

Edited by PhilboSE on Tuesday 1st July 22:40

[B'stard Child]

-Cappo- said:

My deceased FiL's house is currently being sold. Offer was accepted some time ago, the buyer seems keen and has re-visited more than once, and everyone was expecting exchange to take place imminently.

Out of the blue, the buyer's solicitor is asking for proof of planning permission. The house was built in 1975 (not by the FiL), along with three others, which were built the same or following year, in a small private road. It hasn't been modified or extended or anything else since it was built; the only change which was made, during planning in 1975 and before it was built, was that a planned integral garage was turned into a room, and a separate garage built.

Unless the house is new, or nearly new, I can't understand why anyone would want proof of PP. I certainly couldn't provide that for my own house. It would have been the developer (long since deceased) who gained the PP anyway, not the homeowner. To the best of anyone's knowledge, there has never been an approach or query from the LA regarding this. The FiL bought it from the developer and the family lived in it from then until recently; no other owners.

In my cynical mind, I'm fully expecting this to be followed shortly by a suggestion that the solicitor rinses the estate for an "indemnity policy". Can anyone think of any other reason why this might be asked for on a house of this age?

I'm clearly as cynical as you are.............. I'm not even sure councils would keep records that far back

I'd respond with it was valued for council tax in 1991 at Band A, B, C etc and FIL has been paying that rate of tax since then.

10 years is normally the statutory limit for breach of planning - Councils are pretty damn swift to deal with houses not built or extended according to the plans and if the prospective buyer wishes to proceed I suggest he starts with the local planning dept to see what records exist

[-Cappo-]

Thanks all. It does seem to be a load of old bull. I think the executors are just gong to push back and say they have no information relating to this.

Just seems a very odd request to make for the house in question.

[Ezra]

-Cappo- said:

Thanks all. It does seem to be a load of old bull. I think the executors are just gong to push back and say they have no information relating to this.

Just seems a very odd request to make for the house in question.

It'll be some junior conveyancer with a tick list on auto pilot. I'd be pushing back in exactly the way you suggest.

[hidetheelephants]

50 year old PP? The purchaser's conveyancer is on drugs if they think that's reasonable, it's very doubtful the council would retain records that long, not least as local govt has gone through at least two reorganisations/mergings/etc since then.

[Pheo]

Is it just liability shifting by the conveyancer - eg they asked, you said no, buyer told them t proceed - no possibility of it coming back to bite them?

[PhilboSE]

Pheo said:

Is it just liability shifting by the conveyancer - eg they asked, you said no, buyer told them t proceed - no possibility of it coming back to bite them?

If they’re asking for PP for the original house then the conveyancer is an idiot and I can only imagine it’s arse covering.

If they’re asking for the PP for any work done by the previous owner then it’s more reasonable. Depending when it was done the OP could be helpful if they have the records, or just say the executors have no information on it but if it was done a long time ago I’d inidcate the approximate date. Otherwise the conveyancer might put the sts up the buyer by saying that the garage works have no evidential PP and depending on unknown date of build, might be subject to enforcement action.

[Nick Forest]

In a year or two a lot of the conveyancing tasks will be done by AI and no bad thing either…

[paulguitar]

I've just been through something similar with a house built in 1980. A week away from the exchange date, the buyer pulled out because we didn't have building regulations documentation for a porch.


It's very frustrating.

[Crafty_]

B'stard Child said:

I'm clearly as cynical as you are.............. I'm not even sure councils would keep records that far back

OP its worth checkng, the houses in my street were built mid 50s, not only is there a record online via searching the council planning portal there is even a scan of the original paper application form for some houses.

[bigpriest]

Nick Forest said:

In a year or two a lot of the conveyancing tasks will be done by AI and no bad thing either

This thread could be a perfect example of what happens when AI attempts to automate a complicated process.

[John D.]

Ezra said:

It'll be some junior conveyancer with a tick list on auto pilot. I'd be pushing back in exactly the way you suggest.

Yep.

[Mont Blanc]

I would simply tell them that if they had any doubts about the house I was selling, there are plenty others available for sale. Which is exactly what I said to buyers previously. (They bought the house anyway, absent of any certificates).

People absolutely take the piss these days. They are starting to treat house buying like buying a used car from a dealership:

"Can I have proof of the last service, can I have a fresh MOT, can I have new tyres fitted, and can I have a 3 year warranty, and can I return it for my money back within 30 days if I don't like it?".

No you fking can't. You are buying a pile of bricks that may or may not need work doing to it. It's called owning a house. Just accept that and hand the money over, or stick to renting.

paulguitar said:

I've just been through something similar with a house built in 1980. A week away from the exchange date, the buyer pulled out because we didn't have building regulations documentation for a porch.

It's very frustrating.

Something like that will just be an excuse to pull out of the sale. No doubt about it. There is no way someone will walk away from a house they want just because there are missing building regs documents for a porch.

Some buyers are just timewasters. A mate of mine has 'sold' his house 3 times now, and each time it has fallen through with the most pathetic of excuses given. Things like missing FENSA certificates for windows that were fitted 15 years ago and stuff like that, all because the buyers can't bring themselves to actually say "We've changed our minds about moving, sorry about wasting your time"

Edited by Mont Blanc on Wednesday 2nd July 08:39

[Little Lofty]

Back when that was built the planners had 4 years to take enforcement action if it had been built without permission, they now have 10, so either way it is 40+ years beyond enforcement. If they still want an indemnity just tell them to buy one as you won’t be supplying it, it’s a complete waste of money but at least it’s their money not yours. I’ve sold around 40 houses over the last 15 years, I have never been asked for or supllied proof of PP.

[surveyor]

'Purchaser to make their own enquiry's'

[paulguitar]

surveyor said:

'Purchaser to make their own enquiry's'

And enquiries.

[RSTurboPaul]

Crafty_ said:

B'stard Child said:

I'm clearly as cynical as you are.............. I'm not even sure councils would keep records that far back

OP its worth checkng, the houses in my street were built mid 50s, not only is there a record online via searching the council planning portal there is even a scan of the original paper application form for some houses.

This.

The local planning authority should have an online portal with digital map that shows all applications for a given plot.

If they don't, the planning department should be able to assist if contacted.

[surveyor]

paulguitar said:

surveyor said:

'Purchaser to make their own enquiry's'

And enquiries.

and that. Thanks.

[paulguitar]

surveyor said:

paulguitar said:

surveyor said:

'Purchaser to make their own enquiry's'

And enquiries.

and that. Thanks.