Reading the menu
Discussion
What cues do you use to determine if a restaurant is any good?
I eat out fairly infrequently. Usually if I am away from home and can't barbecue or maybe 3 or 4 times a year when family decide to drag me to a restaurant for a birthday or something. It is generally a miserable experience for me with low quality food at high prices, cooked badly and served with pretentious and nonsensical sides. Often in the "ambience" of a disused pub with staff who wish you would leave. The ordeal is sometimes partially redeemed by a nice starter or something I wouldn't/couldn't cook at home. As well as being a trial for me it is also annoying for other people that I can't share their enthusiasm for fancy sounding menus or the recommendations of friends who otherwise live on pot noodles.
A few of my cues:
Not saying which cuts of meat are used, especially beef. It really does matter.
Topside and silverside. This is boot leather. If a menu advertises this as a selling point avoid it.
Stupid portions. What use is a 4oz beef burger? It ought to be on a cocktail stick. It will actually be smothered in some slop, buried in a loaf of bread and served with a shovel full of chips, onion rings and whatever else can make it look like a meal.
Overselling the sides. Hand cut chips seasoned with Atlantic salt and triple cooked. Were you going to cut them with, a lawn mower? If not using oven chips is a selling point it's probably crap.
No focus. There is no such thing as "Asian cuisine" and it is unlikely that someone who does a good Thai curry will also do a good chow mein, korma or ramen for the very good reason that these are different dishes from different places thousands of miles apart.
Any more to add?
I eat out fairly infrequently. Usually if I am away from home and can't barbecue or maybe 3 or 4 times a year when family decide to drag me to a restaurant for a birthday or something. It is generally a miserable experience for me with low quality food at high prices, cooked badly and served with pretentious and nonsensical sides. Often in the "ambience" of a disused pub with staff who wish you would leave. The ordeal is sometimes partially redeemed by a nice starter or something I wouldn't/couldn't cook at home. As well as being a trial for me it is also annoying for other people that I can't share their enthusiasm for fancy sounding menus or the recommendations of friends who otherwise live on pot noodles.
A few of my cues:
Not saying which cuts of meat are used, especially beef. It really does matter.
Topside and silverside. This is boot leather. If a menu advertises this as a selling point avoid it.
Stupid portions. What use is a 4oz beef burger? It ought to be on a cocktail stick. It will actually be smothered in some slop, buried in a loaf of bread and served with a shovel full of chips, onion rings and whatever else can make it look like a meal.
Overselling the sides. Hand cut chips seasoned with Atlantic salt and triple cooked. Were you going to cut them with, a lawn mower? If not using oven chips is a selling point it's probably crap.
No focus. There is no such thing as "Asian cuisine" and it is unlikely that someone who does a good Thai curry will also do a good chow mein, korma or ramen for the very good reason that these are different dishes from different places thousands of miles apart.
Any more to add?
I'm fussy and snobbish about menus so this is a pet peeve of mine. I confess that I screen unfamiliar restaurants from their online menus and will avoid if possible if they commit some of my cardinal sins. So for the OP, I think being dragged out to family events is less likely to land OP in places where food is a priority rather than 'entertaining' and turning a profit.
It all boils down to one word - choice. The more they give you the more likely it is to be s
t. Particularly family restaurants that span a range of cuisines including 'Asian' in pursuit of choice and to keep up with competition.
Whether it's an Indian restaurant or a pub if you have masses of choice it is much more likely that you're getting generic pre prepared sauces or heat and serve rubbish out of a delivery van.
If you have limited choice eg five starters, mains and desserts then the kitchen has a fighting chance of cooking everything from scratch and that the chef has a mastery of the cuisine on offer. The 'tasting menu' is the ultimate reductio ad absurdum of this approach and verges on fetishising dining over conviviality IMO
Beyond that, I'm very suspicious of and annoyed by flowery descriptions - even 'pan fried' grinds my gears when I'd give 'seared' a pass. Stick to one language. Preferably English but if you're going to do French or Italian then do the whole menu in the language. Translations or explanations are unnecessary that's what a waiter (or your phone if you're shy) is for
I'll favour a restaurant which serves game but mark down if game is served out of season. Partridge in May? WTF.
References in the menu to the chef. fk off. You're all standing on the shoulders of giants so give your ego a rest. It's still pretentious but I'll give a qualified pass to those who reference the greats as long as they can deliver.
It's probably a marker of quality but it's certainly a positive when a restaurant credits its suppliers eg. the day boats who supply the fish and the butcher the meat.
It all boils down to one word - choice. The more they give you the more likely it is to be s
t. Particularly family restaurants that span a range of cuisines including 'Asian' in pursuit of choice and to keep up with competition. Whether it's an Indian restaurant or a pub if you have masses of choice it is much more likely that you're getting generic pre prepared sauces or heat and serve rubbish out of a delivery van.
If you have limited choice eg five starters, mains and desserts then the kitchen has a fighting chance of cooking everything from scratch and that the chef has a mastery of the cuisine on offer. The 'tasting menu' is the ultimate reductio ad absurdum of this approach and verges on fetishising dining over conviviality IMO
Beyond that, I'm very suspicious of and annoyed by flowery descriptions - even 'pan fried' grinds my gears when I'd give 'seared' a pass. Stick to one language. Preferably English but if you're going to do French or Italian then do the whole menu in the language. Translations or explanations are unnecessary that's what a waiter (or your phone if you're shy) is for
I'll favour a restaurant which serves game but mark down if game is served out of season. Partridge in May? WTF.
References in the menu to the chef. f
k off. You're all standing on the shoulders of giants so give your ego a rest. It's still pretentious but I'll give a qualified pass to those who reference the greats as long as they can deliver.It's probably a marker of quality but it's certainly a positive when a restaurant credits its suppliers eg. the day boats who supply the fish and the butcher the meat.
I pretty much only go to speciality restaurants nowadays going to somewhere that serves a Thai green curry alongside seafood linguini, a steak, and fish and chips typically means none of it will be any good.
If you want pasta, go to an Italian restaurant. Thai? Go to a Thai restaurant
Preferably family owned.
If you want pasta, go to an Italian restaurant. Thai? Go to a Thai restaurant
Preferably family owned.
Edited by Chris Stott on Saturday 2nd August 08:54
“May contain nuts” tells me that the “chef” (microwave operator) has had very little involvement in preparing the dishes.
Cook in a factory, chill and reheat seems to be the principal offering in the U.K.
Last night we ate at a local Greek restaurant. It was fantastic and scores about 4.7 on Google. All the negative comments are about the speed of service. People actually want fast-food, a huge choice of dishes and a low-bill at the end.
Cook in a factory, chill and reheat seems to be the principal offering in the U.K.
Last night we ate at a local Greek restaurant. It was fantastic and scores about 4.7 on Google. All the negative comments are about the speed of service. People actually want fast-food, a huge choice of dishes and a low-bill at the end.
From the OP's comments, it seems to me you don't like going to restaurants in the first place ("dragged out").
In which case, it hardly matters what's on the menu, because you have already decided you don't want to go anyway. And therefore, you are never going to like it, no matter where you go.
In which case, it hardly matters what's on the menu, because you have already decided you don't want to go anyway. And therefore, you are never going to like it, no matter where you go.
Chris Stott said:
Nothing says avoid like a wipe clean menu with pictures.
Hmm, game of two halves that; on the one hand, if it's a general family harvester type food place, yes avoid. But on the other, if it's an authentic Sichuan, in Yi script with poor (and often amusing) translations, then it could be very very good indeed.Regbuser said:
Hmm, game of two halves that; on the one hand, if it's a general family harvester type food place, yes avoid. But on the other, if it's an authentic Sichuan, in Yi script with poor (and often amusing) translations, then it could be very very good indeed.
I’ll give you that one 
I’ll also make an exception for cheap, greasy spoon breakfast places.
snuffy said:
From the OP's comments, it seems to me you don't like going to restaurants in the first place ("dragged out").
In which case, it hardly matters what's on the menu, because you have already decided you don't want to go anyway. And therefore, you are never going to like it, no matter where you go.
Partially true. I have enjoyed some restaurants, and if I am away from home I love finding a good one. I don't really see the point in going to a restaurant 5 miles from my house and paying through the nose for something I could do better at home for a fraction of the price. In which case, it hardly matters what's on the menu, because you have already decided you don't want to go anyway. And therefore, you are never going to like it, no matter where you go.
I started the thread in a bit of a grump because I'm going to a crap restaurant tonight, and it looks like nice barbecue weather.
Agree with most of oddman's points. Maybe a more positive spin:
Telling you what cut of meat it is is a good sign.
Telling you where it was produced is a very good sign.
Telling you what fat they cook in tells you they care about this stuff.
Having a focused menu with a limited range of choices is a positive.
Using fresh, local and seasonal produce is a good sign.
I'd still generally rather cook at home, but for a less grumpy thread, what are the signs you look for of a good restaurant.
LeoSayer said:
No grammar or spelling mistakes is a good start.
A man walks into a restaurant and surveys the menu, makes his choice and asks the waiter for 'pissoles and chips, please'. The waiter looks a little embarrassed and says 'oh, I do beg your pardon, sir, it's meant to be an R'. Unflustered, the customer responds 'oh,don't worry, I'll have aholes and chips then'.Slaw. I know it’s technically correct (didn’t know this until recently), but I just can’t stand that spelling.
On the subject of misspellings, it’s turned into a game in our family, ‘who can spot the first one’. We were in a pub once and on the same menu they had 3 different spellings of ‘chili/chilli’, none of which were correct and one was actually spelled ‘chilly’, whilst still referring to the spicy stuff.
On the subject of misspellings, it’s turned into a game in our family, ‘who can spot the first one’. We were in a pub once and on the same menu they had 3 different spellings of ‘chili/chilli’, none of which were correct and one was actually spelled ‘chilly’, whilst still referring to the spicy stuff.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
I don't really see the point in going to a restaurant 5 miles from my house and paying through the nose for something I could do better at home for a fraction of the price.
But the food is not the only reason to not eat at home. It's like going to the pub and paying £5 for a pint of lager or having the same thing in can at home for £1. It's not just about a pint of cold amber coloured liquid in a glass.
snuffy said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
I don't really see the point in going to a restaurant 5 miles from my house and paying through the nose for something I could do better at home for a fraction of the price.
But the food is not the only reason to not eat at home. It's like going to the pub and paying £5 for a pint of lager or having the same thing in can at home for £1. It's not just about a pint of cold amber coloured liquid in a glass.
I'm with the OP. Being a keen cook gives you more understanding of what is difficult and done well but also less patient with what is a pisstake and what is menu bulls
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