Jap 600 vs Ducati 748/916/996 etc
Discussion
OK, possibly a chalk and cheese question, but torn between the idea of a Jap (Suzuki GSXR) 600/750 and an older Ducati (been offered a '03 748 from a guy at work - it yellow) or there's loads of 916/996/998s on Autotrader etc.
What to do?
Is there much difference between the 916/996/998s?
What is the difference riding wise between a 748 and a Jap 600? or the difference between a 916 and a Jap 750?
Blah, Blah...ramble over...
What to do?
Is there much difference between the 916/996/998s?
What is the difference riding wise between a 748 and a Jap 600? or the difference between a 916 and a Jap 750?
Blah, Blah...ramble over...
I'm biased but I'd take the torque of a V-Twin over a high revving four any day of the week, plus the Duc just ooozes character and soul, style, charisma etc.
Oh.....and then's there's the sound...
BUT.......you have to accept that you have to be prepared for the extra running costs and meticulous maintainence of a Duc.
If you can do that, then there's nothing better...
Oh.....and then's there's the sound...
BUT.......you have to accept that you have to be prepared for the extra running costs and meticulous maintainence of a Duc.
If you can do that, then there's nothing better...
Edited by aeropilot on Tuesday 13th February 15:32
Kind of where I'm coming from.
New to this biking thing and fell in love with the new black Gixers - very stealthy and cool...obviously cheap to run reliable etc etc. But the down side on a new (or nearly new) jap bike is depreciation - grand a year?.
As you say the Dukes have more 'soul' bit like driving a TVR as oposed to a Lexus.
If either is going to costs me best part of a grand a year in ownership then nothing in it.
Guess I need to get out and try a few...
Anyone know of a Duke servicing specialist in south east essex?
New to this biking thing and fell in love with the new black Gixers - very stealthy and cool...obviously cheap to run reliable etc etc. But the down side on a new (or nearly new) jap bike is depreciation - grand a year?.
As you say the Dukes have more 'soul' bit like driving a TVR as oposed to a Lexus.
If either is going to costs me best part of a grand a year in ownership then nothing in it.
Guess I need to get out and try a few...
Anyone know of a Duke servicing specialist in south east essex?
3 Ducatis my new one an X Reg year 2000, love em all, none of them have missed a bit, very careful when I brought them, all private sales, make sure FSH is mint, and enjoy not as quick as my blade not as comfy as my Vfr (all old bikes) but every time I go in the garage i'm in love, get one.................oh and my 748 was not as quick as the new CBR on paper but when out on the road no difference, used to piss my mate off though as he said the noise of the termis was amking him jealous and deaf...........
My 748sp was a great bike.
Every ride was a thrill and I felt as if I was riding the thing to it's limit.
My GSXR1000 was just so fast, so composed, so bloody dangerous. It goaded you into riding too fast everywhere.
Be wary of high mile 748's though, my mate who looked after my Duke and is a Ducati mechanic recons the crankcases last about 30k miles.
Every ride was a thrill and I felt as if I was riding the thing to it's limit.
My GSXR1000 was just so fast, so composed, so bloody dangerous. It goaded you into riding too fast everywhere.
Be wary of high mile 748's though, my mate who looked after my Duke and is a Ducati mechanic recons the crankcases last about 30k miles.
996 sps said:
Oh sorry old 916 and 748 roadtesters said the 748 was more fun and more flickable...........
Mainly due to the fact that 748's had 60 profile front tyres and 180/55 rears from the factory, although most have been replaced with 70 profile fronts due to 'twitchyness' but otherwise the only difference is a few KG in weight (less than 5kg difference IIRC) which is basically the oil cooler & extra oil capacity of a 916, although the 916 has a bit more reciprocating mass.
However all the 748/916/996/998 range are much more 'flickable' if you fit a 180/55 rear & raise the rear ride height whilst dropping the front - a world of difference and the extra grunt of the bigger motor over the 748 is a HUGE benefit.
Why not buy a Japanese V twin? I bought a Honda SP1, I'm really enjoying it. I love the looks of the 748/996, but couldn't live with the reliability/servicing issues.
Also, I am not sure that the 748 is really in the same performance league as a jap 600. I did one track day (in my life!), a 748 rider wanted to know what I had done to my early nineties ZXR750 as he couldn't pull out any lead on me on the straight. When I told him it was a ZXR400 he looked quite unhappy. He tried even harder to beat me during the day, but really there wasn't that much in it.
If you wan't to compete speed wise against a jap 600, you will probably need a 1000cc V twin.
shane
Also, I am not sure that the 748 is really in the same performance league as a jap 600. I did one track day (in my life!), a 748 rider wanted to know what I had done to my early nineties ZXR750 as he couldn't pull out any lead on me on the straight. When I told him it was a ZXR400 he looked quite unhappy. He tried even harder to beat me during the day, but really there wasn't that much in it.
If you wan't to compete speed wise against a jap 600, you will probably need a 1000cc V twin.
shane
kawasicki said:
Why not buy a Japanese V twin?
Err.......because it's Japanese perhaps
To some of us there's more to a bike and motorcycling than the latest ultimate performance high tech wizardary, and from some of the posts I don't appear to be alone in that.
I can appreciate the technology and cost advantages of Jap stuff, but I've never had even the slightest interest in wanting to own a Jap bike.
Although......just maybe a '79 Honda CBX would just make it into the 'dream' garage perhaps...
I was suggesting a Jap V twin because he didn't seem to have a thing against japanese bikes. He can have the best of both worlds with a Jap V twin.
Not all Jap bikes compare poorly, character/emotion/passion wise, to Italian bikes. I think there is more passion in a ZXR750 than a Ducati 1098 for example.
Could be just me though.
Shane
Not all Jap bikes compare poorly, character/emotion/passion wise, to Italian bikes. I think there is more passion in a ZXR750 than a Ducati 1098 for example.
Could be just me though.
Shane
If you pick up most old 916's etc they all have 180 rear tyres on, goes without saying. However all magazine tests i've seen say the 748 is more fun through the twistys I have a 996 but agree totally with the magazines, but needed the extra grunt as ride with my bruv and he is on a Busa........
I have nothing against Jap bikes - as I say - I love the look of the new Gixers. And I'm sure all will agree they are pretty quick
But...and this is a big but...the Ducatis do have the 'italian flair'. Unfortunately that italian flair seems to extend to their build quality and reliability in the same vein it does with Alfas and Ferarris...
In the same way my my heart says buy a 550 maranello, my Head says buy a Porsche 911...my bank account settled on a TVR Griffith
So do I go for the clinically good and reliable and supremely fast Jap, or the characterfull, potentially frustrating, sexy Italian?
And as some viewers out there will know...this would also be my first bike...
But...and this is a big but...the Ducatis do have the 'italian flair'. Unfortunately that italian flair seems to extend to their build quality and reliability in the same vein it does with Alfas and Ferarris...
In the same way my my heart says buy a 550 maranello, my Head says buy a Porsche 911...my bank account settled on a TVR Griffith
So do I go for the clinically good and reliable and supremely fast Jap, or the characterfull, potentially frustrating, sexy Italian?
And as some viewers out there will know...this would also be my first bike...
virgil said:
In the same way my my heart says buy a 550 maranello, my Head says buy a Porsche 911...my bank account settled on a TVR Griffith
If you've got a TVR then a Duc will seem ultra reliable in comparison........
virgil said:
Unfortunately that italian flair seems to extend to their build quality and reliability in the same vein it does with Alfas and Ferarris...
I had no issue's at all with build quality on my Ducati, and they really arn't unreliable if you look after them properly. Just about all the Ducati reliability problems I've seen is from owners that simply didn't look after them properly or ride them with a degree of mechanical sympathy. Like the guy I know who bought a brand new 999 and thrashed the nuts off of it on the way home from picking it up from the dealers
didn't run it in, never let it warm up properly, and then wondered why he kept having to put it into the dealer's every other week when the engine kept dying on him and overheating. He sold it within six months slagging off Ducati's as crap. Coming from a background of riding vintage British bikes, I had no problems with Ducati ownership at all, it was positive bliss.....
Yep, RSV Mille would be a good choice! Loads to choose from too!
If it's your first bike you should find it.....interesting. Just hope you have gleaned speed awareness from cars and hardwire countersteering technique into your brain as soon as possible.
I went from fastish cars (or at least driving every car quite quickly) to bikes, worked quite well, then again because I don't like paying insurance companies loads I went and bought something with cheap insurance to start with. It was still surprisingly quick! I do respect your choice for getting straight in there though!
If it's your first bike you should find it.....interesting. Just hope you have gleaned speed awareness from cars and hardwire countersteering technique into your brain as soon as possible.
I went from fastish cars (or at least driving every car quite quickly) to bikes, worked quite well, then again because I don't like paying insurance companies loads I went and bought something with cheap insurance to start with. It was still surprisingly quick! I do respect your choice for getting straight in there though!
wassy said:
What about an RSV Mille. I'm on my third, this one's the R version with Ohlins, OZ wheels etc.
You can pick one up for next to nowt at the moment.
Never had any reliability issues whatsoever.
You can pick one up for next to nowt at the moment.
Never had any reliability issues whatsoever.
Yeah - funnily enough was reading about them in an article just last night...didn't really know anything about them. Look good on paper, but If I remember correctly did seem to suggest that they'd be more for an experienced rider than a numpty newbie...
Is theis what is meant by 'a bit top heavy'?? I.e. - need experience to handle the handling...
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