748s...Just about to make an offer, but...
Discussion
It's a red 2002 with pillion seat, though advertised as a MY00 - this may be a mistake, may not - will check it out further. 4500 on the clock, two owners...last one had it for a very short amount of time and is selling through this shop as he can't get on with it (aledgedly 70yr old bloke etc etc). He's also not on the log book...so only shows one owner???
The Bike is vertually imaculate and pretty original, one slight chip mark near the front light, but that really is all...
BUT, got a couple of questions. This is a first bike, so please excuse me if they are a little stupid...
Does a new one come with a service book to be stamped? Shop has a wad of receipts to claim it's been fully serviced, looks like a 300 or 500 mile service, then another one - 3000?, but from what I can tell, no official ducati stamp book like you'd get with a car. Last service was July '05.
It has Bridgestones on it which look OK - but from what I've read they come with Pirelli Dragons as std from what I can tell...does this matter?
Again, from what I've read the side fairings changed to flat rather than vented from 2002 and it does have these...but I guess they can easily be changed should someone want to make a 2000 bike look like a 2002 or repair a crashed bike??
Has the 5 spoke wheels - all looks good.
How many keys should I get - read somewhere 2 plus a 'plastic' key??
He wants 5100 but think i'd bid more like 4600 as it's been sitting around for a while - he even said to me it's been at another shop for a while too!
So basically, the bike looks perfect, but There are a few niggles...owner not on log book, proof of history etc.
Any thoughts? Head says walk away, heart says buy it....
The Bike is vertually imaculate and pretty original, one slight chip mark near the front light, but that really is all...
BUT, got a couple of questions. This is a first bike, so please excuse me if they are a little stupid...
Does a new one come with a service book to be stamped? Shop has a wad of receipts to claim it's been fully serviced, looks like a 300 or 500 mile service, then another one - 3000?, but from what I can tell, no official ducati stamp book like you'd get with a car. Last service was July '05.
It has Bridgestones on it which look OK - but from what I've read they come with Pirelli Dragons as std from what I can tell...does this matter?
Again, from what I've read the side fairings changed to flat rather than vented from 2002 and it does have these...but I guess they can easily be changed should someone want to make a 2000 bike look like a 2002 or repair a crashed bike??
Has the 5 spoke wheels - all looks good.
How many keys should I get - read somewhere 2 plus a 'plastic' key??
He wants 5100 but think i'd bid more like 4600 as it's been sitting around for a while - he even said to me it's been at another shop for a while too!
So basically, the bike looks perfect, but There are a few niggles...owner not on log book, proof of history etc.
Any thoughts? Head says walk away, heart says buy it....
I'd leave it. Ducatis from that era take a bit more looking after than jap bikes, so unless the bike has been serviced at the correct intervals (including annually if it's not done the miles to require servicing) you can often have problems later on down the line. You also need to make sure the cambelts have been changed at the correct intervals - if these go, you WILL be looking at a very expensive repair bill.
There are plenty of well cared for examples with all the paperwork out there - I'd hang tight. What's your gut feeling? I'd say from the choice of language in your post you already know what to do......
There are plenty of well cared for examples with all the paperwork out there - I'd hang tight. What's your gut feeling? I'd say from the choice of language in your post you already know what to do......
Yeah Desmo, I know...but it's so difficult...it is there...it is red (as oposed to yellow) and I recon I'd get it at a good price...and I have money burning a hole in my pocket...the worst possible way to buy anything!
Just out of interest, why do they belts need changing every service interval even if the miles have not been covered? Seems a bit overkill??
Anyone know what the proper service intervals are? Can't find it on the web anywhere.
Cheers,
Virgil.
Just out of interest, why do they belts need changing every service interval even if the miles have not been covered? Seems a bit overkill??
Anyone know what the proper service intervals are? Can't find it on the web anywhere.
Cheers,
Virgil.
I wouldn't simply leave it - I've had my 748SPS from new in 1998 and I have not had it serviced every year. It's incorrect to say they need a full service every year, there's a lot of scare-mongering about Ducatis. My bike sits in a carpeted, dehumidified garage. Never ridden in the wet but is started regularly. Basically, if the bike has done only about 300-500 miles since the last service then there is no reason I know to get it serviced just for the sake of it. That said, I do know bikes and I do give it a good visual check regularly - tyres, rubber pipes/hoses, coolant, oil, brake fluid etc. HOWEVER - belts are different - they need doing at least every 3 years even with little or no mileage - especially with low mileage in fact. To answer your question, belts will perish over time, and if not used they can become hard. NEVER ride a Duke with suspect belts. I have had my bike serviced about every 2 years, last year was a full belt service. I used a well respected independant specialist and it cost me about £450 including fitting the race cans and re-programming the fuelling to suit, plus an MoT test. The specialist told me it's one of the best 748's he's ever seen both cosmetically and mechanically, and confirmed there is absolutely nothing wrong with my bike. I will do my own servicing now (except belts and valve shimming) which keeps costs lower. I doubt I'll ever sell my beloved SPS and I'm not that bothered about service history for that reason. That said, I have every single piece of paper - including the original bill of sale, all receipts, all MoT's etc. etc. and will continue to keep every last receipt as proof of the care it has had. Bit of a ramble there, sorry 
.
OK, to answer your questions from perspective of a 1998 model: There should be 2 keys, I don't remember a plastic key but if there was then I'll still have it and can check if you like. Yes, there should be a Ducati service book for stamping, so it must be missing if there isn't one. Service intervals are 6000 miles or 12 months - whichever sooner. Ducati themselves confirmed belts do not need doing every year unless the mileage is reached (I called them when the dealer wanted to do a £600 service after 1st year and 1000 miles). The fairings are very easy to change but expensive if proper factory panels and so I doubt anyone would do it for nothing. If you suspect they've been changed I'd look for accident damage. Even if it was just dropped it would still be cheaper to change one rather than both. It's probably just a typo. Tyres - Pirelli from new yes, but I have 3100 miles on my bike (yes I know - in 9 years - terrible) and the tyres are about to be changed this year - as long as it has good quality sports tyres then no problem. You'll have to change them again at some point anyway. I would say though - last service 2005 - the belts would need doing for peace of mind. If they were done in 2005 then OK to leave until next winter - but I have it clearly noted on my receipts each time the belts are changed and if the receipt doesn't state it, assume they weren't. If they are due, expect a bill around £150 ish just to have belts changed. My advice is, if you really fancy the bike, do an Hpi check and get it inspected fully by either a main dealer or an independent specialist ( good specialists tend to be better). Don't pay top dollar unless it really is a top bike, and if the belts are due get the cost of a service off the price. If you do buy, I advise finding a respected specialist and use them, or do most of the servicing yourself - not difficult. Main dealer prices are shocking - mine quoted over £850 for the service that the specialist did for under £500 - and the specialist did more for it
Finally, Yellow looks better than red 
. OK, to answer your questions from perspective of a 1998 model: There should be 2 keys, I don't remember a plastic key but if there was then I'll still have it and can check if you like. Yes, there should be a Ducati service book for stamping, so it must be missing if there isn't one. Service intervals are 6000 miles or 12 months - whichever sooner. Ducati themselves confirmed belts do not need doing every year unless the mileage is reached (I called them when the dealer wanted to do a £600 service after 1st year and 1000 miles). The fairings are very easy to change but expensive if proper factory panels and so I doubt anyone would do it for nothing. If you suspect they've been changed I'd look for accident damage. Even if it was just dropped it would still be cheaper to change one rather than both. It's probably just a typo. Tyres - Pirelli from new yes, but I have 3100 miles on my bike (yes I know - in 9 years - terrible) and the tyres are about to be changed this year - as long as it has good quality sports tyres then no problem. You'll have to change them again at some point anyway. I would say though - last service 2005 - the belts would need doing for peace of mind. If they were done in 2005 then OK to leave until next winter - but I have it clearly noted on my receipts each time the belts are changed and if the receipt doesn't state it, assume they weren't. If they are due, expect a bill around £150 ish just to have belts changed. My advice is, if you really fancy the bike, do an Hpi check and get it inspected fully by either a main dealer or an independent specialist ( good specialists tend to be better). Don't pay top dollar unless it really is a top bike, and if the belts are due get the cost of a service off the price. If you do buy, I advise finding a respected specialist and use them, or do most of the servicing yourself - not difficult. Main dealer prices are shocking - mine quoted over £850 for the service that the specialist did for under £500 - and the specialist did more for it
Finally, Yellow looks better than red Edited by yellowvette on Saturday 3rd March 13:56
New bikes have a Service book, if the owner is careless enough to have lost it, was he careful enough to get it serviced properly? Service intervals are 600 miles for first service, then every 6,000/yearly afterwards.
The most important aspects of Ducati servicing are Cambelt replacement and Valve (rocker) adjustment; Belts have a hard life due to the sharp angles around the small pulleys and tension wheels and heat etc and need changing every 12,000 miles or 2 years, make sure you fit the later Kevlar reinforced belts, Many people who are used to cars needing belt changes only on mileage often don't change them because the mileage is low but belts that sit for a long time can 'set' on the pulleys and crack, if they break the damage can be horrendously expensive to repair and at at main dealer prices posssibly more than an older bike's worth.
If you are not 1000% certain that the belts are good then replace them anyway.....
Valve adjustment is also important as if the settings are too tight or too loose (they wear both ways) then the rockers (16 of them!) smash or grind against the cams causing the rockers and ultimately the cams to wear and there are ongoing issues with rocker wear anyway, (another story), even on well-maintained bikes but having loose or tight clearances accelerates the problem, 748s tend to suffer more rocker failure as they rev higher. Rocker adjustment is very time-consuming and should be checked every 6,000 miles (they don't however wear through time alone), camshafts should also be removed at a service as this is the only way to spot rocker wear - this adds to the time/cost and so some people don't do it.
The belts and rocker adjustments are the sole reasons why Ducati servicing is more expensive than other bikes as they need doing often and are very time-consuming and you need to have them done by someone who knows what they're doing, good independents can be much cheaper than main dealers and if you find a good one they can be better also.
Basically you don't know if the rockers/cams are worn without taking it apart, if you're buying from a shop who tell you all is good then might be worth asking them if they'll warranty it, ie you get the valves/rockers checked at your expense but get them to replace any faulty ones?
Tyres are a personal choice, Bridgestones are fine but none of them last long enough to be a major problem, you should ideally have a 'matching' pair though.
5 spoke wheels are lighter than the original 3 spoke so are an improvement and were only fitted as standard on later model or higher model (SPS etc) bikes.
The 'flat' 998 type fairings fit any bike, not sure if/when the 748 got them.
My 916 has only 2 keys, if the bike has a factory-fit immobiliser? (don't know if 748s ever did) , like the 749/999 then you need the master key.
I don't know about the price but sounds expensive, considering that 'Ride' magazine recently bought a '97 916 for £2750 but if your bike is a good one with some warranty then maybe it's worth it. Unfortunately buying a used bike is always a bit of a 'lottery' especially so with Ducatis. Can you it get looked at/checked over by a good Ducati-savvy mechanic?
But I have to disagree with Yellowvette about the yellow, Red is by far the better colour, and faster too........
Best of luck.
The most important aspects of Ducati servicing are Cambelt replacement and Valve (rocker) adjustment; Belts have a hard life due to the sharp angles around the small pulleys and tension wheels and heat etc and need changing every 12,000 miles or 2 years, make sure you fit the later Kevlar reinforced belts, Many people who are used to cars needing belt changes only on mileage often don't change them because the mileage is low but belts that sit for a long time can 'set' on the pulleys and crack, if they break the damage can be horrendously expensive to repair and at at main dealer prices posssibly more than an older bike's worth.
If you are not 1000% certain that the belts are good then replace them anyway..... Valve adjustment is also important as if the settings are too tight or too loose (they wear both ways) then the rockers (16 of them!) smash or grind against the cams causing the rockers and ultimately the cams to wear and there are ongoing issues with rocker wear anyway, (another story), even on well-maintained bikes but having loose or tight clearances accelerates the problem, 748s tend to suffer more rocker failure as they rev higher. Rocker adjustment is very time-consuming and should be checked every 6,000 miles (they don't however wear through time alone), camshafts should also be removed at a service as this is the only way to spot rocker wear - this adds to the time/cost and so some people don't do it.
The belts and rocker adjustments are the sole reasons why Ducati servicing is more expensive than other bikes as they need doing often and are very time-consuming and you need to have them done by someone who knows what they're doing, good independents can be much cheaper than main dealers and if you find a good one they can be better also.
Basically you don't know if the rockers/cams are worn without taking it apart, if you're buying from a shop who tell you all is good then might be worth asking them if they'll warranty it, ie you get the valves/rockers checked at your expense but get them to replace any faulty ones?
Tyres are a personal choice, Bridgestones are fine but none of them last long enough to be a major problem, you should ideally have a 'matching' pair though.
5 spoke wheels are lighter than the original 3 spoke so are an improvement and were only fitted as standard on later model or higher model (SPS etc) bikes.
The 'flat' 998 type fairings fit any bike, not sure if/when the 748 got them.
My 916 has only 2 keys, if the bike has a factory-fit immobiliser? (don't know if 748s ever did) , like the 749/999 then you need the master key.
I don't know about the price but sounds expensive, considering that 'Ride' magazine recently bought a '97 916 for £2750 but if your bike is a good one with some warranty then maybe it's worth it. Unfortunately buying a used bike is always a bit of a 'lottery' especially so with Ducatis. Can you it get looked at/checked over by a good Ducati-savvy mechanic?
But I have to disagree with Yellowvette about the yellow, Red is by far the better colour, and faster too........
Best of luck.
Edited by catso on Saturday 3rd March 14:17
catso said:
But I have to disagree with Yellowvette about the yellow, Red is by far the better colour, and faster too........
No chance, yellow every time. The faster bit might be right though: apparently yellow ones are about 2kg heavier because all were made in red and Ducati simply sprayed yellow on top - hence they have more paint. Seem to remember reading that somewhere, and I know my panels show red on the inside at sharp edges where the paint is thin. Well - checked it out properly.
Went to the dealer where the bike was sold before and they said it was absolutley mint when they sold it 500 miles ago. They also confirmed the guy who now has it regularly buys ducatis and then sells them after very low mileage - described the bike perfectly.
The different colour wing mirrors are due to scraping them when accessing a very tightly spaced garage when it was stored and this previous shop had them re-painted black instead of red as they were afraid they would not match the colour perfectly, and though black would be safer. I'd have them repainted red or matt black to blend with the rest of the bike.
It IS an '02 bike - paperwork shows that.
There is an owner's manual
There is a stamped service book
Belts have been done in 2005
It's got Both MOTs, both keys - I've confirmed there should only be two with Dukes...and both alarm fobs are there.
Comes with a 6month parts and labour waranty and arrives at my house Monday or Tuesday evening
My mate thinks I'm mad, and so do I a bit...but what the hell!
IT'S MINE
Went to the dealer where the bike was sold before and they said it was absolutley mint when they sold it 500 miles ago. They also confirmed the guy who now has it regularly buys ducatis and then sells them after very low mileage - described the bike perfectly.
The different colour wing mirrors are due to scraping them when accessing a very tightly spaced garage when it was stored and this previous shop had them re-painted black instead of red as they were afraid they would not match the colour perfectly, and though black would be safer. I'd have them repainted red or matt black to blend with the rest of the bike.
It IS an '02 bike - paperwork shows that.
There is an owner's manual
There is a stamped service book
Belts have been done in 2005
It's got Both MOTs, both keys - I've confirmed there should only be two with Dukes...and both alarm fobs are there.
Comes with a 6month parts and labour waranty and arrives at my house Monday or Tuesday evening
My mate thinks I'm mad, and so do I a bit...but what the hell!
IT'S MINE
Brilliant Virgil, you won't regret it mate. May not be the fastest things out there but plenty fast enough for most. I still love mine after 9 years and, apart from the 1098, have yet to see anything that makes me consider changing it. I still love just looking at it there in the garage after all this time. Only problem is I keep spending money on nice bits for it !
I had official aftermarket carbon mirrors on mine for a while - they looked fantastic but were utter crap to use. I replaced those with official aftermarket alloy mirrors and they're much better, and I love the look of them. There's a pic in my profile under "my cars" if you want to know what they look like. 'Kin expensive, but worth it IMHO.
I had official aftermarket carbon mirrors on mine for a while - they looked fantastic but were utter crap to use. I replaced those with official aftermarket alloy mirrors and they're much better, and I love the look of them. There's a pic in my profile under "my cars" if you want to know what they look like. 'Kin expensive, but worth it IMHO.
Edited by yellowvette on Saturday 3rd March 16:47
I'm obviously VERY excited...and a lot nervous...
Mirrors do look good. Will see how re-painting them turns out.
Got kitted out today too. Not the most expensive gear in the world, but it is all pretty comfy and is a good start.
Wife surprised the hell out of me by saying "obviously you'll be getting a spare helmet so I can come on the back" Where the hell did that come from...not that long ago she said "you do realise I will NEVER get on the back of a bike".....
Just checked the weather...hope it comes Monday rather than tuesday!
Mirrors do look good. Will see how re-painting them turns out.
Got kitted out today too. Not the most expensive gear in the world, but it is all pretty comfy and is a good start.
Wife surprised the hell out of me by saying "obviously you'll be getting a spare helmet so I can come on the back" Where the hell did that come from...not that long ago she said "you do realise I will NEVER get on the back of a bike".....
Just checked the weather...hope it comes Monday rather than tuesday!
Sounds like you've got a good one, although I would get the belts changed anyway (at least before your 6 month warranty expires 
) you'll love it and I think you'll find it's plenty fast enough for a first bike (my first bike struggled past 60mph). Regarding the mirrors all the earlier bikes had black mirrors, IIRC the red mirrors started with the 996R in '01/'02. I recently bought some brand new red original Ducati mirrors on ebay for about £70 - probably cheaper than painting, much less hassle and a perfect colour match plus you could always sell the black ones to recoup some of the cost.
You know it makes sense......
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